When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

What makes me really angry about all this is that the data that decides the roadmap actually couldn’t realistically be much better in the UK (I know other countries are struggling), aside from maybe not having the April vaccine shortage. Everything else is completely on track as Boris said. Therefore why are the scientists now saying that they may not be able to move to step 3? What’s changed? What were they expecting? If it never was going to be possible then why build up hope for the population via the roadmap? Nothing bad has happened to knock us off course in terms of the roadmap. This building up hope and then taking it away for no clear reason that I can see is what I struggle with most from a mental health perspective and I know I’m not alone. 

In 5/6 months we will all be fully vaccinated, what is the endgame if it’s not happening this year?

It's because they risk averse. I think the road map is too long myself, but if we stick to it, I'll accept it. They can sod off with any MORE delays to it though

 

[Toilet Duck]

30 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

I've already mentioned I've not been speaking about blood clots. I've been speaking about the unknown and how young , healthy people maybe reluctant. I'm more scared of the vaccine and the unknown than of dying of covid (0.0006% chance of dying ). People have a choice its their health and body. No where have I said I'm anti vax and not taking the vaccine but that's want I get labelled with because I don't just fall in line. 

I've used previous examples how we've been told vaccines safe. UK Health Protection Agency (now Public Health England) undertook a major study of 4- to 18-year-olds and found that around one in every 55,000 Pandemrix jabs led to narcolepsy. Can people not have access to that information and make a choice based on that information. I don't understand how I'm anti vax for bringing that up. 

What I would say is that Pandemrix wasn’t put through the same level of scrutiny in clinical trials as any of these Covid vaccines. It was fast-tracked based similarities to previously approved vaccines (and they missed the adverse effects that have been found in widespread use). So, it’s not really a like for like comparison. For what it’s worth, I think it’s entirely reasonable to ask questions, I fully support looking into the clotting issue and I don’t see much to be afraid of with the AZ jab in the longer term (the first humans to receive an adenoviral vaccine were nearly 30 years ago, and we don’t see a signal for long term problems). Short term reactions certainly need to be looked into though. 

[JoeyT]

I had to duck out to put the little one to sleep but was anything mentioned about outside hospitality in terms of how far tables needed to be apart etc?

I know for lots of places space was an issue in regards to whether it was even worth opening on April 12th.

[JBarbour]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

just out of interest what would you need to convince you ? is it a period of time ? a set number of jabs ? ( obviously the numbers of doses are huge now .... I understand the concerns but at what point do you decide that the risk is so tiny its worth it .... people could go on for ever going what if ? ... as some of the vaccines will change to adapt to variants etc or we get new ones joining the arsenal 

Time! To see no long term side effects. I'm happy to get vaccinated and I'm fully vaccinated (other can covid obviously), but they are well tested over long periods and the side effects are slim. I'm healthy, I'm in my 30s. I'm worried if long term side effects come to light I've got a lot of years to work and life to enjoy. I'm fully behind the vaccination roll out for older and vulnerable. 

It's very difficult to have an open discussion with people about being reluctant to get a vaccine without being called anti-vax, not just here but in the real world.  My friends and family that are 20-40 are split on it as well.

[Crazyfool01]

3 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I had to duck out to put the little one to sleep but was anything mentioned about outside hospitality in terms of how far tables needed to be apart etc?

I know for lots of places space was an issue in regards to whether it was even worth opening on April 12th.

Boris doesnt do detail does he ? its probably in the small print somewhere thats been briefed out 

[dingbat2]

1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

I now have a opersobnal target date for getting home from hospital 12th april. And if that twat Spaffer is in the pub when I get there I'll chin him.

I think you just failed your suitability for parole interview 

[HalfAnIdiot]

4 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

Time! To see no long term side effects. I'm happy to get vaccinated and I'm fully vaccinated (other can covid obviously), but they are well tested over long periods and the side effects are slim. I'm healthy, I'm in my 30s. I'm worried if long term side effects come to light I've got a lot of years to work and life to enjoy. I'm fully behind the vaccination roll out for older and vulnerable. 

It's very difficult to have an open discussion with people about being reluctant to get a vaccine without being called anti-vax, not just here but in the real world.  My friends and family that are 20-40 are split on it as well.

Understood. 

How much time? 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, JBarbour said:

Time! To see no long term side effects. I'm happy to get vaccinated and I'm fully vaccinated (other can covid obviously), but they are well tested over long periods and the side effects are slim. I'm healthy, I'm in my 30s. I'm worried if long term side effects come to light I've got a lot of years to work and life to enjoy. I'm fully behind the vaccination roll out for older and vulnerable. 

It's very difficult to have an open discussion with people about being reluctant to get a vaccine without being called anti-vax, not just here but in the real world.  My friends and family that are 20-40 are split on it as well.

all my 40s friends are taking it .... and I dont actually know anyone who has chosen not to take it yet .... but it hasnt got down to the uni students yet ... and I work with quite a lot that age ... will be interesting to see the take-up ,  my concerns are over people  that are very vocal when they have had a jab reaction and that influencing some of the younger age not to take it ... hopefully they will take it based on some others their age having been floored by it ... 

[jannybruck]

14 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

What makes me really angry about all this is that the data that decides the roadmap actually couldn’t realistically be much better in the UK (I know other countries are struggling), aside from maybe not having the April vaccine shortage. Everything else is completely on track as Boris said. Therefore why are the scientists now saying that they may not be able to move to step 3? What’s changed? What were they expecting? If it never was going to be possible then why build up hope for the population via the roadmap?

SAGE have always been ultra cautious (to the point of it being a bit over the top sometimes) as it's their job to model the worst case scenario, and therefore it's very easy for media outlets like the Mirror to weave stories out of their quotes because they're generally always on the more pessimistic side. Doomy stuff gets much more clicks and traffic compared to optimistic stuff. They're a newspaper's wet dream.

You can see the data for yourself – it's looking great, and slow and steady will win out as long as we can keep smashing the vaccines and keep on top of case trends.

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, HalfAnIdiot said:

Understood. 

How much time? 

yep that was my next question .... 

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, dingbat2 said:

I think you just failed your suitability for parole interview 

Geezer in thre bed next to me got paroled a could days ago lucky guy.geezer in the bed opposite got told he's out of here ssoon earliertoday. Hope it's me soon.immoving ion to another hospital when they have a bed for me.should find out when on tuesday.ill go home from there hope it isn't a long stay.

[Crazyfool01]

12 minutes ago, dingbat2 said:

I think you just failed your suitability for parole interview 

Chinning  Boris is surely a reason for release 🙂 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

15 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

just out of interest what would you need to convince you ? is it a period of time ? a set number of jabs ? ( obviously the numbers of doses are huge now .... I understand the concerns but at what point do you decide that the risk is so tiny its worth it .... people could go on for ever going what if ? ... as some of the vaccines will change to adapt to variants etc or we get new ones joining the arsenal 

As the other poster I'm more worried of adverse effects of a vaccine than I am Covid.

For me the answer is time or until I'm more worried or scared of Covid than I am a vaccine. At 35 I feel I have time on my side and I don't need to make a choice right now. All these tactics from the government with things like vaccine passports are actually making me more determined not to have the vaccine because I don't approve of bullying which is exactly what this is becoming.

My other half had a spare jab two weeks ago, felt like shit for the best part of a week, has just summed it up nicely for me after the press conference, 'I had this jab so I and everyone else could back to something like normal, now I'm being told I will have to have a test if I want to go to the theatre. That's not normal - I'd probably have been no worse off having had covid and I'd not have the worry about clots caused by the vaccine. I might even have had it but I'll never know because there is no mention of anti body tests anymore'

[zahidf]

 

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

As the other poster I'm more worried of adverse effects of a vaccine than I am Covid.

For me the answer is time or until I'm more worried or scared of Covid than I am a vaccine. At 35 I feel I have time on my side and I don't need to make a choice right now. All these tactics from the government with things like vaccine passports are actually making me more determined not to have the vaccine because I don't approve of bullying which is exactly what this is becoming.

My other half had a spare jab two weeks ago, felt like shit for the best part of a week, has just summed it up nicely for me after the press conference, 'I had this jab so I and everyone else could back to something like normal, now I'm being told I will have to have a test if I want to go to the theatre. That's not normal - I'd probably have been no worse off having had covid and I'd not have the worry about clots caused by the vaccine. I might even have had it but I'll never know because there is no mention of anti body tests anymore'

But... covid passport is a negative test OR vaccine proof. Not both.

it's been given to literally millions of people. No evidence of issues as far as I can see

[JBarbour]

17 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

Understood. 

How much time? 

No idea. I'll make a decision when I feel comfortable.  I may get it the first time I get offered it, I may have it next year. I think I've still got another few months yet based on the current roll out. 

16 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

all my 40s friends are taking it .... and I dont actually know anyone who has chosen not to take it yet .... but it hasnt got down to the uni students yet ... and I work with quite a lot that age ... will be interesting to see the take-up ,  my concerns are over people  that are very vocal when they have had a jab reaction and that influencing some of the younger age not to take it ... hopefully they will take it based on some others their age having been floored by it ... 

I'd say most of my friends in their 30s are more reluctant and doing a lot more research, questioning things, in that I have friends that have have had the virus. I think younger people understand their risk is extremely low especially if they are healthy. 

Where does it end - lockdowns, vaccines, passports, tests, masks and repeat. One of my parents that works for the NHS was told they may need another "top-up" about November time, they do work with covid patients mind. Considering my own parents who have worked with this for a year are allowing me to make my own mind up and don't see an issue with it, yet strangers on the internet think I'm an anti vaxxer about sums things up for me. 😀

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by JBarbour

[zahidf]

 

[Toilet Duck]

21 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

Time! To see no long term side effects. I'm happy to get vaccinated and I'm fully vaccinated (other can covid obviously), but they are well tested over long periods and the side effects are slim. I'm healthy, I'm in my 30s. I'm worried if long term side effects come to light I've got a lot of years to work and life to enjoy. I'm fully behind the vaccination roll out for older and vulnerable. 

It's very difficult to have an open discussion with people about being reluctant to get a vaccine without being called anti-vax, not just here but in the real world.  My friends and family that are 20-40 are split on it as well.

To be honest, it’s a reasonable debate. Emergency use doesn’t normally involve vaccinating large amounts of extremely low risk individuals. So to justify it, the benefits must outweigh the risks. The risk of Covid-related complications for younger people are minuscule. However, the societal risks of not suppressing or even potentially eliminating (not eradicating) the virus are part of the risk/benefit assessment. Are people with little personal risk willing to take a different risk for the benefit of society? What are the risks? I think these are debates that should be had out in the open. It’s up to the scientific and medical community to reassure people of the risks that are involved so that they are fully informed and consent to buying into providing a greater level of protection for society at large (the vaccines won’t fully protect all older people, but herd immunity will augment that protection, so it’s important that as many people as are willing actually do consent to vaccination, even if it affords them little personal protection since they had little individual risk anyway). Allaying fears shouldn’t be ridiculed, anti-vaxxers will never be won over, but labelling those who are wondering where they fit into the process as nut jobs does us all a disservice. It polarises the debate and probably drives more people away from actually taking the decision to consider getting vaccinated. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

But... covid passport is a negative test OR vaccine proof. Not both.

it's been given to literally millions of people. No evidence of issues as far as I can see

Short term no which is great. 

[stuie]

1 hour ago, efcfanwirral said:

I do think festivals need to consider just knocking it on the head this year, regrouping and planning for 2022. It's clearly not happening - i think revising our expectations to just not having social distancing in pubs is the optimistic end of what the summer will look like to be honest 

So just to be clear, you don’t think festivals are going to happen this year.    Thanks for posting it 20 times a day! 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

As the other poster I'm more worried of adverse effects of a vaccine than I am Covid.

For me the answer is time or until I'm more worried or scared of Covid than I am a vaccine. At 35 I feel I have time on my side and I don't need to make a choice right now. All these tactics from the government with things like vaccine passports are actually making me more determined not to have the vaccine because I don't approve of bullying which is exactly what this is becoming.

My other half had a spare jab two weeks ago, felt like shit for the best part of a week, has just summed it up nicely for me after the press conference, 'I had this jab so I and everyone else could back to something like normal, now I'm being told I will have to have a test if I want to go to the theatre. That's not normal - I'd probably have been no worse off having had covid and I'd not have the worry about clots caused by the vaccine. I might even have had it but I'll never know because there is no mention of anti body tests anymore'

understandable nervousness after a jab reaction .... but huge numbers will get very little reaction .... we really dont know what the future holds in respect of passports ... we've had an awful lot of crap from govt .... the tests arent great but for me if they help the path to normality thats fine ... im happy temporarily suck it up .... ill be testing myself once these tests become available and hopefully it will stop someone becoming ill further down the line if i get a positive .... The pandemic started with protecting the vulnerable and as someone in that category im more than happy to do whats required ..... 

[stuartbert two hats]

11 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

No idea. I'll make a decision when I feel comfortable.  I may get it the first time I get offered it, I may have it next year. I think I've still got another few months yet based on the current roll out. 

I'd say most of my friends in their 30s are more reluctant and doing a lot more research, questioning things, in that I have friends that have have had the virus. I think younger people understand their risk is extremely low especially if they are healthy. 

Where does it end vaccines, passports, tests, masks and repeat. One of my parents that works for the NHS was told they may need another "top-up" about November time, they do work with covid patients mind. Considering my own parents who have worked with this for a year are allowing me to make my own mind up and don't see an issue with it, yet strangers on the internet think I'm an anti vaxxer about sums things up for me. 😀

 

The top up thing isn't exactly news, the second generation vaccines are discussed regularly on here and on the press briefings.

Edit: sorry that came off as dismissive, I can see you're debating in good faith.

Edited April 5, 2021 by stuartbert two hats

[HalfAnIdiot]

3 minutes ago, JBarbour said:

No idea. I'll make a decision when I feel comfortable.  I may get it the first time I get offered it, I may have it next year. I think I've still got another few months yet based on the current roll out. 

I'd say most of my friends in their 30s are more reluctant and doing a lot more research, questioning things, in that I have friends that have have had the virus. I think younger people understand their risk is extremely low especially if they are healthy. 

Where does it end - lockdowns, vaccines, passports, tests, masks and repeat. One of my parents that works for the NHS was told they may need another "top-up" about November time, they do work with covid patients mind. Considering my own parents who have worked with this for a year are allowing me to make my own mind up and don't see an issue with it, yet strangers on the internet think I'm an anti vaxxer about sums things up for me. 😀

 

Taking the vaccine early protects wider society sooner. Taking it later reduces the benefit to society (increased risk of you catching covid and passing it on to someone else who might die). Oh, and increased  long-covid risk to yourself too too. 

Your actions have consequences

There 'might' be a long term issue with the vaccine. Do all the research you like but it won't help. It's in the future. No one has a crystal ball 

Why on earth do you need the approval of strangers on the Internet anyway?  Do whatever makes you comfortable. 

 

[st dan]

Interesting goings on with World Darts Champion Gerwyn Price, who has just been kicked out of the Premier League Darts starting this week, due to testing positive in their routine testing. 

[JBarbour]

2 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

To be honest, it’s a reasonable debate. Emergency use doesn’t normally involve vaccinating large amounts of extremely low risk individuals. So to justify it, the benefits must outweigh the risks. The risk of Covid-related complications for younger people are minuscule. However, the societal risks of not suppressing or even potentially eliminating (not eradicating) the virus are part of the risk/benefit assessment. Are people with little personal risk willing to take a different risk for the benefit of society? What are the risks? I think these are debates that should be had out in the open. It’s up to the scientific and medical community to reassure people of the risks that are involved so that they are fully informed and consent to buying into providing a greater level of protection for society at large (the vaccines won’t fully protect all older people, but herd immunity will augment that protection, so it’s important that as many people as are willing actually do consent to vaccination, even if it affords them little personal protection since they had little individual risk anyway). Allaying fears shouldn’t be ridiculed, anti-vaxxers will never be won over, but labelling those who are wondering where they fit into the process as nut jobs does us all a disservice. It polarises the debate and probably drives more people away from actually taking the decision to consider getting vaccinated. 

The questions I have:

What does the Government do if there is slow uptake in the under 30s/40s? Do they just apply more peer-pressure via passports? Will they just leave it to herd-immunity? Will herd-immunity amongst the young and healthy be enough to suppress the virus if there is slow uptake? I understand not being able to convince antivaxxers but how can the scientific and medical community reassure people and get the messaging right. Can this / will this vaccine be eventually like the flu jab and be given at a certain age / existing health issues? How often will the vaccine need to be taken? Would it be better to build up natural immunity rather than regular vaccines? 

[efcfanwirral]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

So just to be clear, you don’t think festivals are going to happen this year.    Thanks for posting it 20 times a day! 

Ha fine ill stop talking about it. Its the only thing I care about around all this so it clouds my vision!