When will this shit end?

[strummer77]

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Can you see them doing it before everyone is offered vaccination ?  I think they will only do this once everyone has been given the choice.  After that I would welcome it.

Considering we're being told that the vaccine doesn't stop people carrying it what is the point? It's either safe to go out or it isn't basically.

My opinion is that Vaccine Passports are generally a political manoeuvre as opposed to any logical reason. Essentially it is just a Tony Blair ID card idea again (indeed Tony's institute has been a major organisation pushing this within government - by its own declarations). I'd be comfortable with them if they literally were to target the pandemic, but let's be honest their purpose will inevitably extended into a digital ID down the line. A no from me.

All that said, a vaccine passport would likely include the option for a negative test result too (for those that can't or will choose not to have the vaccine)

 

[MEGABOWL]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

It seems completely out of whack with my expectations personally.  Are they modelling based on every person who gets infected goes on to develop serious disease?

Seems they’ve got an ‘absolutely worst case scenario’ which they have to do, but it’s being reported as ‘they are forecasting this to happen.’

[strummer77]

6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

1/3 to 2/3 reduction in the spread depending on which study you read - so I don't think that is entirely true.

Still don't trust the government with the digital ID system it will inevitably become. They won't go away. Lots of ethical issues etc. Think it is a terrible prospect. I mean look where we are already with this government and protests etc - we should resist 'papers please' ideas.

If the vulnerable are supposedly now immune either via vaccine or recovery then we should be able to survive without vaccine passports with a sensible reopening.

Edited March 24, 2021 by strummer77

[stuie]

8 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

Considering we're being told that the vaccine doesn't stop people carrying it what is the point? It's either safe to go out or it isn't basically.

My opinion is that Vaccine Passports are generally a political manoeuvre as opposed to any logical reason. Essentially it is just a Tony Blair ID card idea again (indeed Tony's institute has been a major organisation pushing this within government - by its own declarations). I'd be comfortable with them if they literally were to target the pandemic, but let's be honest their purpose will inevitably extended into a digital ID down the line. A no from me.

All that said, a vaccine passport would likely include the option for a negative test result too (for those that can't or will choose not to have the vaccine)

 

I still don’t really understand why people are anti ID cards. I already have a driving licence, passport, NHS ID, NI number and a HMRC record. 

Not much left really. I don’t have any issue with joining all that up. 

[strummer77]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

I get that - I think a lot of people don't care anymore.  We want to go back to something like normal.

Yes and we can go back to normal without vaccine passports. Vaccine Passports are not 'normal' and we shouldn't risk the fall out. 

[efcfanwirral]

 

17 minutes ago, jannybruck said:

It's just untenable, really. If it's not mandatory how many little pubs or coffee shops have the staffing level or energy to ask for people's vaccine certificates or green ticks for every customer that walks through the door? What do they lose or gain out of it? I can't understand why places would want to put this in effect, it's not like ID'ing customers for age where they'd get a massive fine.

Hospitality desperately needs custom this summer and I really can't imagine minimum wage employees having either the willingness or the bravery to deal with sorting out the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. They struggle enough with customers and masks.

 

17 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Can you see them doing it before everyone is offered vaccination ?  I think they will only do this once everyone has been given the choice.  After that I would welcome it.

Its just a weird one-  "you can go to the pub without a vaccine until you've been offered one, then you can't til you've had one" isn't a logical message. It again doesn't fit alongside "we're opening up before everyone is vaccinated, but we think everyone needs to be vaccinated for things to be safe". So many mixed messages. 

I think the clincher is going to be the fact that vast numbers of the staff won't be vaccinated until near the end, so if its about safety and making people feel safe then having unvaccinated people making/serving/handling your food and drink and cleaning your tables, even in masks, doesn't quite offer that!

[strummer77]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

I still don’t really understand why people are anti ID cards. I already have a driving licence, passport, NHS ID, NI number and a HMRC record. 

Not much left really. I don’t have any issue with joining all that up. 

You don't have to give all that detail to every pub you go in do you?

Do people really trust the government and all these organisations with all your data? Mind boggling.

Edited March 24, 2021 by strummer77

[JoeyT]

 

[stuie]

Just now, strummer77 said:

You don't have to give all that detail to every pub you go in do you?

Of course not. And they wouldn’t get it if we had ID cards either. 

[efcfanwirral]

 

This is the big takeaway from today. Is there some kind of Brexit change upcoming that would disrupt supplies anyway? Risking the safe passage of 75% of medicines to protect public health from one virus doesn't make much sense either

[strummer77]

2 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I think the clincher is going to be the fact that vast numbers of the staff won't be vaccinated until near the end, so if its about safety and making people feel safe then having unvaccinated people making/serving/handling your food and drink and cleaning your tables, even in masks, doesn't quite offer that!

Also, without trying to be funny, not comfortable with cutting off anyone who chooses not to have the vaccine from everyday life. It's their choice, they should be able to go to the pub.

[strummer77]

8 minutes ago, stuie said:

Of course not. And they wouldn’t get it if we had ID cards either. 

If the system is un-hackable and un-abusable then maybe. But let's be honest it won't be at some stage.

I also like the radical idea people don't have to sign in everywhere they go. The systems we have pre-pandemic worked fine for me and should after.

Edited March 24, 2021 by strummer77

[steviewevie]

Be prepared.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/24/covid-pandemic-prepared-investment-science

[efcfanwirral]

9 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

Also, without trying to be funny, not comfortable with cutting off anyone who chooses not to have the vaccine from everyday life. It's their choice, they should be able to go to the pub.

 

6 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

If the system is un-hackable and un-abusable then maybe. But let's be honest it won't be at some stage.

I also like the radical idea people don't have to sign in everywhere they go. The systems we have pre-pandemic worked fine for me and should after.

I'm completely with you - and have beaten that drum on here over the past few months.  but we're now past the argument of "if", it's happening, we just have to accept it and hope its done in the most non-disruptive way

[Ozanne]

Vaccination update:

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

You don't have to give all that detail to every pub you go in do you?

does the average frenchie have to show threir id card to get a beer

 

[Crazyfool01]

11 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

 

Looks good should see a significant drop off in tests and infections again when the schools break up for Easter 🙂 will be interesting to see how low the infections go then 

[efcfanwirral]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Just in case...  I think we should do it 🙂 

haha I know! and I've accepted its happening now, just throwing ideas around about the issues that we'd face if its done too early, or indeed too late. I think if its happening and its about encouraging takeup/and about ACTUAL safety, it needs to be done at the start, as in the April part of the roadmap. With exemptions for staff

Edited March 24, 2021 by efcfanwirral

[stuie]

7 minutes ago, strummer77 said:

If the system is un-hackable and un-abusable then maybe. But let's be honest it won't be at some stage.

No more hackable that the government systems that hold all of the same data now I’d say. 

I agree about not having to sign in everywhere but I think vaccination status will end up being added to your passport record. 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

No more hackable that the government systems that hold all of the same data now I’d say. 

I agree about not having to sign in everywhere but I think vaccination status will end up being added to your passport record. 

Whilst they’re at it they can make elections electronic too. Log in on Election Day through your gateway ID on an app and vote.

[strummer77]

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You did last year...

Anyway a vaccine passport would simply be a green tick / QR code check with government DB - nothing more.

I wrote my name and number down which they destroyed after 21 days during the middle of a pandemic. 
 

That’s different to a vaccine passport after almost all vulnerable people are immune. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by strummer77

[strummer77]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

does the average frenchie have to show threir id card to get a beer

 

Well the proposal is that you might need a vaccine passport to get a beer in future. 

[strummer77]

6 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

You did last year...

Anyway a vaccine passport would simply be a green tick / QR code check with government DB - nothing more.

It won’t remain that eventually will it. And we don’t need it.

They’re just trying to sneak digital ID systems through whilst people are desperate enough to accept any old nonsense. 

[strummer77]

Just now, Barry Fish said:

That you presume they destroyed 21 days after and no one else saw, copied or took advantage of your personal details simply being written down on a people paper which lots of the public potentially could see etc etc etc.

Last year was a data protection nightmare - resulting in things as serious as women being harassed by men.

A proper government system would infinitely more secure and robust.

I’m against both systems for the record. 

[strummer77]

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

And here comes the conspiracy theories...  

Is the idea governments sneak through things at ideal opportunity a ‘conspiracy theory’?

Because you’re one naive bloke if you believe that. 

Edited March 24, 2021 by strummer77