Jump to content

When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That’s exactly it, it’s a horrible situation for both the UK and the EU, one that has been brought on by AZ. As a result we are seeing these issues and sadly some people are going to suffer as a result of it. AZ need to get on top of this urgently otherwise countries or Unions will act to ensure their citizens can get quicker access to vaccines. 

or, making vaccines is difficult, there are some production issues, the UK also haven't had as many from them as expected, but the UK are being diplomatic about it, whereas the EU are throwing their toys out their pram and blaming others for their own mistakes. 

There's around 13-15 millions doses unused in the EU bloc at the moment. When they've stopped faffing about in the individual countries as to what age to jab people, and stopped briefing the papers against AZN, maybe they can get down to using those first

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Gacheezbo said:

Marched for remain and would do so again, but defending the EU on this is maga level delusion. You would not be justifying it if it was the brexit loving tories stealing paid for vaccines by the EU, don't pretend otherwise.

Same here. Massively for remain and would rejoin, but they are clearly in the wrong here. No point trying to defend them on it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Gacheezbo said:

Marched for remain and would do so again, but defending the EU on this is maga level delusion. You would not be justifying it if it was the brexit loving tories stealing paid for vaccines by the EU, don't pretend otherwise.

This is the thing they are paid for vaccines by the EU as well so are just trying to get what is owed to them through the contract they signed with AZ. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This is the thing they are paid for vaccines by the EU as well so are just trying to get what is owed to them through the contract they signed with AZ. 

Isn’t the issue though that the contract the EU signed isn’t as clear as the UKs one? If the EU signed a contract that isn’t clear and  doesn’t guarantee deliveries then that is on them, they should have picked this up and amended it before signing it

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

24 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

The contract that didn't guarantee delivery.  Details matter.  Stop being intentionally stupid over it.

We don't know what our contract looked like though.

But given that AZ are being extremely obtuse about all this, refusing to comment, refusing to give details on where vaccines have gone or where they are being sent... that does suggest it's not exactly "by the book" - if it really were a case of our contract overrides theirs, they would just say as much. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This is the thing they are paid for vaccines by the EU as well so are just trying to get what is owed to them through the contract they signed with AZ. 

Are the EU going to actually use them or just stick them in the cupboard with the other 15m doses? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Why would a private company like AZ have any reason to favour the UK over the EU unless there was a contractual or commercial reason to do so.

Either way the UK put itself in a stronger position over the EU.

Must really hurt haters like yourself that your own country did right / better for once 🙂 

Well done King Boris!  

An EU geezer was on radio 4 earlier saying az had been dishonest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Why would a private company like AZ have any reason to favour the UK over the EU unless there was a contractual or commercial reason to do so.

There is a commercial reason: better to have one happy customer and one pissed-off one that two pissed-off ones.

That doesn't make it "right" and it's legit to ask questions about it. 

The EU are getting more Pfizer than the UK are and no-one is up in arms about that because Pfizer have been transparent about why that's the case.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

Must really hurt haters like yourself that your own country did right / better for once 🙂 

Well done King Boris!  

Not really - it's just that loads of my friends are in Europe and I personally identify more as European than British or English. So "normality" for me doesn't happen until all of Europe are vaccinated. Some people's lives are smaller in scale and that's fine.

What I find utterly baffling and, frankly, borderline psychopathic, is that the people who most strongly think we should be getting all the vaccines for ourselves are also the ones that want us to give up on social distancing and reopen everything right now, because the vulnerable have been vaccinated so no-one is really going to die anymore.

And yet you still think we should get all the vaccines and use them on people who aren't going to die, rather than have them used elsewhere in the world.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think you are WAY out...

NO company is going to piss off a trading block of 400+ million people in favour of 60+ million people.  They logic you are using just doesn't stand up to reality.

There is something clearly in the contracts giving the UK the upper hand.  

The UK psidfor the production plant.

Edited by eFestivals
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

I think you are WAY out...

NO company is going to piss off a trading block of 400+ million people in favour of 60+ million people.  They logic you are using just doesn't stand up to reality.

There is something clearly in the contracts giving the UK the upper hand.  

Oh I agree to an extent. I think the UK contract gives us first refusal on all the doses produced in the UK. And the EU does not have a similar term in their contract for the doses produced in the EU. So for AZ, sending the doses from the UK to EU is not an option. 

But equally, what AZ do with the doses in the EU is seemingly up to them. Given that, even if they sent them all to the EU they would still be well short on what they promised, but by sending some to the UK they can actually meet their obligations here, then they've done that - again, at least one customer is happy then. They'd prefer it be the bigger one but that's not an option.

But AZ are being entirely opaque over what is happening with the EU manufactured doses and where they are going. It's therefore legit to be asking questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

I said multiple times we need to follow the unlocking plan.  

I do think the British Government should be vaccinating our own population first and then help others even more than we are doing.  To resolve this dispute and to help the EU save face we should agree to share more.  

Given the choice - I would rather see our own people saved over people in other nations.  I know - I am awful aren't it 🙂

If you'd rather see one person here saved over one person from a different nation then I can understand that. If you'd rather see two people saved here than one person elsewhere I start to get uncomfortable. If you'd rather see one person saved here than one hundred elsewhere then you probably are awful.

And we're going to get that point. We might already be there if you actually account for the global south rather than see this as UK vs EU. Once we are at 21st June and still have people to vaccinate, yet our government has declared that it's safe enough to remove any restrictions on what we can and can't do, and re-open everything, you have to question how much value is in continuing to vaccinate people.

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:



I think the problem here is you think promises where made.  Read the contract 🙂 

It says "best efforts" on the EU whereas the UK one says... oh actually I don't know as it's not been published.

See my prior comments about AZ being far from transparent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...