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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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2 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Also, the U.K. variant is just a name - if you’re blaming Europe’s problems on us then by that logic surely we should be hating on China big time for causing this thing in the first place? 
 

I was very careful to call it 'the variant identified in the UK' not the 'UK variant' so as not to offend anyone.

You've missed my point entirely.

The reason they are having so many problems NOW (rising cases) is that this more malicious variant has arrived on their shores AFTER it was in the UK. I wasn't blaming the UK.

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5 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Also quite clearly going to be impacted by an incredibly sluggish vaccine rollout.

Also, the U.K. variant is just a name - if you’re blaming Europe’s problems on us then by that logic surely we should be hating on China big time for causing this thing in the first place? 
 

The Eu doesnt always needed defended. I was a staunch remainer but doesn’t mean I can’t quite clearly see they’ve fucked their vaccine procurement and rollout whereas we have nailed it (about the only thing we have got right)

as stated the suggish vaccine rollout by the countries is due to the lack of vaccine and its not because countries handled it aso bad and not because of the pessimism - if there was more vaccine available at the moment the roll out would be rather good.

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I feel like history is repeating itself here. Why on earth are we putting so much weight on people that want to go on holiday.

Last year I saw lots of uproar from people not being allowed to go abroad, and those that did go abroad all said the same thing. “Was nice to get a bit of sun but I couldn’t really do anything or go anywhere”.

Do people actually live under a rock? If travel to mainland Europe is prohibited in the summer it probably means it’s not worth going. Do people genuinely think the government is trying to get between them and a normal summer holiday? Do people not read the news?

Rant over 🙂 

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24 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I think it's a defence mechanism for him.

It's an easy brush to tar everyone with rather than think of a reasoned rational response.

I have genuine sympathy for those who perhaps are of a disposition where unlocking may cause anxiety etc. however I don't feel this is the case for the majority and therefore it's not correct to then slander anyone who thinks otherwise.

No that’s not the case at all. I’m just pointing out that the people arguing loudest against the EU seem to be the ones most eager to get back out there therefore they are projecting that onto the EU in a hope it’ll change something.

 

I’ve also been posting how many days we can see friends again because others like you have been arguing that the pubs need to reopen so I’ve been pointing out what you are looking forward to is only actually a few days away. Trying to spread some positivity around against the negativity. 

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

No that’s not the case at all. I’m just pointing out that the people arguing loudest against the EU seem to be the ones most eager to get back out there therefore they are projecting that onto the EU in a hope it’ll change something.

 

I’ve also been posting how many days we can see friends again because others like you have been arguing that the pubs need to reopen so I’ve been pointing out what you are looking forward to is only actually a few days away. Trying to spread some positivity around against the negativity. 

I've not explicitly said pubs in any of my posts have I?

Outdoors hospitality and any other rules involving mixing outside is what i've been arguing the toss for.

Fair enough the pub is included within that but considering I have a young daughter the days where my weekends are spent solely in a pub have disappeared!

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This thread's descent from informative support to partisan squabbling is as depressing as it is inevitable.  The same dozen or so people posting at each other relentlessly, day in, day out.. what could possibly go wrong?

Let's hope, for everyone's benefit, that this shit will end soon.

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4 minutes ago, Hannibal Schmitt said:

as stated the suggish vaccine rollout by the countries is due to the lack of vaccine and its not because countries handled it aso bad and not because of the pessimism - if there was more vaccine available at the moment the roll out would be rather good.

While I'm sure that's true in some countries, it's definitely not everywhere - a evidenced by the huge stockpile of doses that some countries are sitting on - Germany being the most notable example - 3.7m unused doses of which ~1.7m each for AZ and Pfizer, and the balance being Moderna.

Whereas yeah, I can see that the usage numbers for Austria look significantly better but they're one of a very few countries in the EU to have actually used over 80% of their received doses to date.

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1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

We have only just stopped following EU rules, everything we have done has been under their rules so our success isn’t a benefit of Brexit. 

Absolute die-hard remainer here (I went on the marches and everything), and while this is obviously true in terms of the rules, politically it simply wouldn’t have happened if we were still in the EU. There’s no way one member would be able to get so extravagantly ahead of everyone else in the bloc without being made to share their supply.

It’s still not a strong argument for Brexit (particularly as it looks like the EU might be able to equalise supply across the continent by banning exports to the UK anyway) but I do think claiming it hasn’t been a factor at all is naive.

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2 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I've not explicitly said pubs in any of my posts have I?

Outdoors hospitality and any other rules involving mixing outside is what i've been arguing the toss for.

Fair enough the pub is included within that but considering I have a young daughter the days where my weekends are spent solely in a pub have disappeared!

You have, you’ve said pubs should reopen on a quicker timescale quite a bit so I pointed out that you can actually see your friend for drinks in only a few days time. You’ve moaned quite a lot about the speed of the roadmap so I thought some positivity to counteract it would help. 

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Just now, Ozanne said:

You have, you’ve said pubs should reopen on a quicker timescale quite a bit so I pointed out that you can actually see your friend for drinks in only a few days time. You’ve moaned quite a lot about the speed of the roadmap so I thought some positivity to counteract it would help. 

Well yeah they should because they form part of a wider group of things within outside hospitality like i've been saying.

I think you have a real issue with being able to seperate your negative thoughts with what others are trying to say. You then try to shoe horn these in by being condescending / passive aggressive.

 Do you think it's a coincidence that others have said this? 

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2 minutes ago, theevilfridge said:

Absolute die-hard remainer here (I went on the marches and everything), and while this is obviously true in terms of the rules, politically it simply wouldn’t have happened if we were still in the EU. There’s no way one member would be able to get so extravagantly ahead of everyone else in the bloc without being made to share their supply.

It’s still not a strong argument for Brexit (particularly as it looks like the EU might be able to equalise supply across the continent by banning exports to the UK anyway) but I do think claiming it hasn’t been a factor at all is naive.

I'd be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that: 

- the UK was a powerful member of the EU

- the UK managed to go it alone and not be in Schengen unlike everyone else

- the UK managed to go it alone and not be in the Euro unlike everyone else

 

 

But more importantly the vaccine rollout is not the be-all and end-all of being in the EU.
There seems to be an oversimplified view that the vaccine cock-up proves the UK is better off out the EU. 

There are advantage and disadvantages of any system.


What about the matter of the smaller economy thanks to Brexit? Makes the vaccine story pale into insignificance...

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So one thing I didn't realise until I started looking at the numbers this morning is that the EU also seems to have a significant problem with Moderna usage - I don't know if that's because of distribution, or acceptance, or some other reason - but here's the usage numbers for the lowest 25 products/country combinations:

image.png.758e2e036137626cc67454818796183c.png

Stopped at 25 mainly due to the lack of screen height on this computer. Though it dose start to rise a lot more after that point.

It's only really Pfizer they seem to be doing well, with all but a couple of countries above 80%. Data from here.

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2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

I'd be inclined to agree with you if it weren't for the fact that: 

- the UK was a powerful member of the EU

- the UK managed to go it alone and not be in Schengen unlike everyone else

- the UK managed to go it alone and not be in the Euro unlike everyone else

 

 

But more importantly the vaccine rollout is not the be-all and end-all of being in the EU.
There seems to be an oversimplified view that the vaccine cock-up proves the UK is better off out the EU. 

There are advantage and disadvantages of any system.


What about the matter of the smaller economy thanks to Brexit? Makes the vaccine story pale into insignificance...

Denmark chose not to be in the Euro as well, so we weren’t alone in that.

Ultimately it’s very difficult to say exactly what would have happened as we would have a totally different government now as well as no Brexit if not for the referendum result. However, I don’t think a one-off event such as the pandemic and vaccine rollout is really comparable to a long term decision like Schengen membership, where taking a different path is more justifiable while still being a (fairly) committed member of the club. Can you imagine the shit UK MEPs would’ve got in the European Parliament if we were (in their view) hoarding the vaccine?

I nearly added something along the lines of the second half of your post to mine in the first place, but decided it was so self-evident it wasn’t necessary. So thanks for that.

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14 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Well yeah they should because they form part of a wider group of things within outside hospitality like i've been saying.

I think you have a real issue with being able to seperate your negative thoughts with what others are trying to say. You then try to shoe horn these in by being condescending / passive aggressive.

 Do you think it's a coincidence that others have said this? 

As I said all I’ve been doing is trying to counteract your negative comments about when things can reopen by pointing out the things you want to do are only a few days away. That’s all, there’s nothing more to it than that. You’ve called people ‘negative nellies’ before yet then go on to be negative yourself so it’s only fair to try to spread some positivity around. 

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If the EU block us, are we able to source AZ from the States now they have shown to have positive results in their trials? 

I guess they have a significant production operation in the US and we could be able to have some while they finalise their FDA approval?

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23 minutes ago, incident said:

While I'm sure that's true in some countries, it's definitely not everywhere - a evidenced by the huge stockpile of doses that some countries are sitting on - Germany being the most notable example - 3.7m unused doses of which ~1.7m each for AZ and Pfizer, and the balance being Moderna.

Whereas yeah, I can see that the usage numbers for Austria look significantly better but they're one of a very few countries in the EU to have actually used over 80% of their received doses to date.

Yeah, the Germans are slower than us. I don`t know why, but its also that our two health systems are from the health aspect very good, but not for emergency situations. They are federalist-bureaucratic. A digital system like in Israel or even a centralistic system would help and be much better.

The Germans are much too cautious and maybe with too much discipline, but even Merkel has said now that they need to be less discipline and more flexible. But also it might lead to a better acceptance of the AZ soon, as stated yesterdays in german TV.

All this is more an organization problem which also comes from lack of vaccine – see, in parts of austria older high risk over 80 people can only use the internet for registration and those systems are similar overloaded like ticket sites in their best times. So, some people got lucky – some not – so the unlucky ones would have the chance a few weeks later – than it is said the AZ should only be used for people under 65 – so in the end a 95 year retired has to wait for a long long time – longer than young people.

See, i don`say that the vaccination programmes are working perfect (our coordinator was fired few weeks ago) – but they won`t make the broad picture – in the end it will come to a race how fast and how much governments will get (to) the vaccines as this is their only way out of the crisis (because Lockdowns and also giving people too much freedom during the wave we are in at the moment don`t work anymore).

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Just now, phimill said:

If the EU block us, are we able to sauce AZ from the States now they have shown to have positive results in their trials? 

I guess they have a significant production operation in the US and we could be able to have some while they finalise their FDA approval?

Doubt it.

They already rejected a request to send some to Europe a short while back, and that was before they had some very good US based numbers. Now that the FDA approval looks certain to come, the US will intend to hold onto their doses.

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12 minutes ago, incident said:

So one thing I didn't realise until I started looking at the numbers this morning is that the EU also seems to have a significant problem with Moderna usage - I don't know if that's because of distribution, or acceptance, or some other reason - but here's the usage numbers for the lowest 25 products/country combinations:

image.png.758e2e036137626cc67454818796183c.png

Stopped at 25 mainly due to the lack of screen height on this computer. Though it dose start to rise a lot more after that point.

It's only really Pfizer they seem to be doing well, with all but a couple of countries above 80%. Data from here.

Can't speak for the other countries, but in Ireland, since deliveries for AZ and Moderna are unreliable, second doses are held for those that get the first so that they are guaranteed to get them when they are due (they weren't at the start for AZ, but we had two consecutive weeks where deliveries were cut the night before on 3 occasions, so they are now...looking at the proportion left to be administered above, I'd hazard a guess that others are doing the same). Pfizer supply is steady, so what comes in, goes out (2nd doses not held back). 

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1 hour ago, xxialac said:

I was very careful to call it 'the variant identified in the UK' not the 'UK variant' so as not to offend anyone.

You've missed my point entirely.

The reason they are having so many problems NOW (rising cases) is that this more malicious variant has arrived on their shores AFTER it was in the UK. I wasn't blaming the UK.

Yes and if they had 50% of their population vaccinated they would be in much better shape. Instead we have this 

 

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9 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Can't speak for the other countries, but in Ireland, since deliveries for AZ and Moderna are unreliable, second doses are held for those that get the first so that they are guaranteed to get them when they are due (they weren't at the start for AZ, but we had two consecutive weeks where deliveries were cut the night before on 3 occasions, so they are now...looking at the proportion left to be administered above, I'd hazard a guess that others are doing the same). Pfizer supply is steady, so what comes in, goes out (2nd doses not held back). 

If delivery is considered unreliable then taking that approach is definitely fair enough, although even with that in mind I'd still expect countries to be higher than ~40-45% for Moderna given that it's been shipping for ~2 months and so there's already been a significant number of second doses at this point.

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7 minutes ago, Barry Fish said:

And the winner is...   German big Pharmaceutical...

Bit weird when people shit on big pharm for doing well out of this tbh.

 

They have done incredibly well to create and mass manufacture the vaccines that get us out of this mess. It’s absolutely correct that they are rewarded financially for doing so. 

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