When will this shit end?

[aj6658]

52 minutes ago, st dan said:

I also will of course be taking the vaccine when offered, but I don’t think you can just dismiss those people that fall into the bolded category. Basically, every person under the age of 40 may be concerned about the vaccine if they are trying to conceive, or are planning to do so in the future. No conclusive study has been carried out yet to confirm that the vaccines will have no impact to this (although I’m sure that’s a formality). But each person does have the right to make their own decisions in line with their own thought process, however ‘wrong’ that might appear to some.  

There are a lot of people that aren’t ‘anti-vaxers’ but are slightly cautious at this stage, so early in the life of these vaccines. I believe to essential alienate them from society would be morally wrong. However those that that won’t take it because they don’t want Bill Gates to track them can get in the bin. 

There has been no evidence of this. don't you think it would be utterly mad there to be this oversight if it did? 

Do you think that the hundreds of thousands of researchers did consider this and at least try to get some comfort because it is a pretty massive deal. The researchers are smart guys. Much smarter than you and I. Im sure they have covered it.

These vaccines started life from SARs. They haven't just plucked the approach and technology out of thin air in a matter of months. Alot of this has been building of our knowledge of viruses. 

 

I get people are concerned but at what point do you stop pandering to them?Eventually they need to take the vaccine to beat this thing and save lives.

 

[st dan]

1 minute ago, incident said:

I'm pretty sure it was reported exactly how the Government intended for it to be reported.

But then I'm also sure that, despite denials, they're currently hoping/intending to beat the June 21st date and that emphasising that these dates are "not before" is partly to encourage continued caution and vaccine takeup and partly to allow them to beat expectations.

I can see that, but it would then be publicly undermining Chris Whitty, who took some good time yesterday in the press conference to explain how and why the 5 week period was derived, and why it is such an important timeframe. 

[incident]

Just now, st dan said:

I can see that, but it would then be publicly undermining Chris Whitty, who took some good time yesterday in the press conference to explain how and why the 5 week period was derived, and why it is such an important timeframe. 

Imagine Boris doing that!

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

if, for example, the step 3 date slips a few weeks...that means step4 date slips a few weeks too, right? They won't be trying to catch up? So, we could know a lot earlier?

You are correct, they need to have 5 weeks between steps so if one falls back then that will have a domino effect. 

[gazzared]

1 minute ago, efcfanwirral said:

To be fair if that is to be delayed because of data the writing will be on the wall weeks before that date, I doubt it'll be a surprise by the time we get to that point

yeah your right but hopefully they'll/we will be able to stick with these dates as it gives us all something to look forward to.

[xxialac]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

That was posted yesterday BEFORE the road map was released.

What makes you say that?

The news on 21 June appears to come before the timing of that article.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, Barry Fish said:

I think the problem is if people go crazy in April and May while only half are vaccinated - that will seed issues into the NHS pipeline

No it won’t, because the half that are vaccinated contain nearly everyone who is a burden on the NHS if they do catch covid 

[hillwalker]

On 2/19/2021 at 8:36 AM, zero000 said:

The calls often come from withheld numbers too. Standard NHS.  

So myself and three colleagues had our second dose of Pfizer yesterday morning. I’m fine other than a sore arm that kept me awake when I rolled over on to it. Pretty much the same affects as the first shot and still managed my early morning 8k run. 
one of my colleagues has had to take the day off though with flu like symptoms. She had the same reaction to the first shot but was also had a bad reaction to Covid a few months ago. The other two are fine but just moaning 🙂

[Havors]

14 minutes ago, xxialac said:

That's very fair. But the government knows exactly how the media will represent their words and they have a tonne of control over the narrative by giving privileged access to the journalists who sing their tune.

And Johnson could have made more of a fuss of the 21 June date being heavily caveated but instead he glossed over it quickly yesterday in his speech.

There is little to no reason to believe that the 21st June date will not happen. Everything points to us being at the required levels to open everything way before June 21st. I think the biggest moan is going to be end of May when there are next to no cases or deaths and we have to keep restrictions for another 4 weeks. 

[xxialac]

Are the government's 4 tests for re-opening SMART?

[gazzared]

I find it crazy when certain idiots in the public say they wont take the vaccine and spout loads of false info yet I bet they dont hesitate in taking Ibuprofen for a backache or headache without reading the possible side effects : -

Possible side effects

Like all medicines, your medicine can cause side effects, although not everybody gets them.

The following effects are very rare (less than 1 in 10,000 people) but if you experience any of the effects then STOP taking this medicine immediately and contact your doctor or pharmacist.

• Peptic ulceration or perforation: Symptoms could include severe abdominal pain, vomiting blood (or liquid with what looks like coffee grounds), blood in the faeces (stools/motions) or passing black tarry stools

• Inflammation of the brain lining: Symptoms could include stiff neck, headache, feeling or being sick, fever or feeling disorientated

• Severe allergic reactions: Symptoms could include dizziness or fainting, faster heart rate, swelling of the face, tongue and throat

• Worsening of asthma and wheezing or difficulty breathing

Other possible side effects

Less than 1 in 100 people may experience the following uncommon side effects

• Allergic reactions such as hives, skin rashes and itching (or SLE)

• Stomach: Abdominal pain, indigestion, heartburn and feeling sick

• Nervous System: Headache

Less than 1 in 1000 people may experience the following rare side effects

• Diarrhoea, wind, constipation and being sick

Less than 1 in 10,000 people may experience the following very rare side effects

• Reduction in blood cells, which can make the skin pale or yellow, cause fever, sore throat, mild mouth ulcers, flu-like symptoms, exhaustion or weakness, easy bruising, or bleeding from the skin or nose

• High blood pressure, heart failure or chest pain

• Nervousness, visual impairment, ringing in the ears and vertigo

• Liver problems: Symptoms could include yellowing of the skin or the whites of the eyes

• Kidney problems: Symptoms could include swelling of the ankles

• Severe skin reactions: Symptoms could include blistering

• A severe skin reaction known as DRESS syndrome can occur. Symptoms of DRESS include: skin rash, fever, swelling of lymph nodes and an increase of eosinophils (a type of white blood cells).

Medicines such as ibuprofen may be associated with a small increased risk of heart attack ("myocardial infarction") or stroke.

[foolee]

23 minutes ago, Gilgamesh69 said:

Thing is, I am going to be cautiously optimistic because yeah, maybe things will change and the grand reopening of the economy wont happen on June 21st. But hell, even if its pushed back by a month, that still leaves us with plenty of festivals in august

22 minutes ago, zahidf said:

If we cant open up more by June 21st with most of the population vaccinated and with it being the summer months, then we are properly Fcked anyway. 

Both of these posts completely sum up my thoughts. 

[zahidf]

18 minutes ago, xxialac said:

What makes you say that?

The news on 21 June appears to come before the timing of that article.

Because it was posted on here elsewhere before the road map announcement was made. So they would have probably have decided it last week anyway.

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Are the government's 4 tests for re-opening SMART?

Didn't you say the same thing about their Feb vaccination target? How did that go again?

[gizmoman]

3 minutes ago, gazzared said:

I find it crazy when certain idiots in the public say they wont take the vaccine and spout loads of false info yet I bet they dont hesitate in taking Ibuprofen for a backache or headache without reading the possible side effects : -

Possible side effects

 

Like all medicines, your medicine can cause side effects, although not everybody gets them.

 

The following effects are very rare (less than 1 in 10,000 people) but if you experience any of the effects then STOP taking this medicine immediately and contact your doctor or pharmacist.

 

• Peptic ulceration or perforation: Symptoms could include severe abdominal pain, vomiting blood (or liquid with what looks like coffee grounds), blood in the faeces (stools/motions) or passing black tarry stools

 

 

• Inflammation of the brain lining: Symptoms could include stiff neck, headache, feeling or being sick, fever or feeling disorientated

 

• Severe allergic reactions: Symptoms could include dizziness or fainting, faster heart rate, swelling of the face, tongue and throat

 

• Worsening of asthma and wheezing or difficulty breathing

 

Other possible side effects

 

Less than 1 in 100 people may experience the following uncommon side effects

 

• Allergic reactions such as hives, skin rashes and itching (or SLE)

 

• Stomach: Abdominal pain, indigestion, heartburn and feeling sick

 

• Nervous System: Headache

 

Less than 1 in 1000 people may experience the following rare side effects

 

• Diarrhoea, wind, constipation and being sick

 

Less than 1 in 10,000 people may experience the following very rare side effects

 

• Reduction in blood cells, which can make the skin pale or yellow, cause fever, sore throat, mild mouth ulcers, flu-like symptoms, exhaustion or weakness, easy bruising, or bleeding from the skin or nose

 

• High blood pressure, heart failure or chest pain

 

• Nervousness, visual impairment, ringing in the ears and vertigo

 

• Liver problems: Symptoms could include yellowing of the skin or the whites of the eyes

 

• Kidney problems: Symptoms could include swelling of the ankles

 

• Severe skin reactions: Symptoms could include blistering

 

• A severe skin reaction known as DRESS syndrome can occur. Symptoms of DRESS include: skin rash, fever, swelling of lymph nodes and an increase of eosinophils (a type of white blood cells).

 

Medicines such as ibuprofen may be associated with a small increased risk of heart attack ("myocardial infarction") or stroke.

 

Is ibruprofen an experimental treatment based on new technology that has not had any long term trials? It's not just a question of short-term side effects. We have 50 years of data on Ibuprofen so the overall risks and benefits are well known, despite that a lot of people ARE reluctant to take any medication for minor illnesses.

[st dan]

11 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Are the government's 4 tests for re-opening SMART?

They’ve probably decided they’re going to open up on the given dates regardless, so not having visible targets means they can crack on with it, whilst appearing to the public that they have taken the cautious approach and moved with data. It’s a good PR exercise if nothing else. 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Because it was posted on here elsewhere before the road map announcement was made. So they would have probably have decided it last week anyway.

That seems very unlikely.

And he road map leak came out before the news in the Bristol press.

Festival manager has decided they won't go ahead if reopening dates are tight to 21 June.
News emerges that it's tight to 21 June.

Festival manager tells press it's off. It just takes a quick phone call.

[Quark]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

They’ve probably decided they’re going to open up on the given dates regardless, so not having visible targets means they can crack on with it, whilst appearing to the public that they have taken the cautious approach and moved with data. It’s a good PR exercise if nothing else. 

The visible targets could also work the other way though. There could be visible or developing trends that point towards stuff going the wrong way, but if all the numbers at that point are "correct" then they're facing a barrage of demands that they should be lifting restrictions as defined by their own criteria.

TBH I'm not completely unhappy that the govt aren't setting the criteria for exiting a national pandemic lockdown by using the same system that I set my annual objectives at work!

[xxialac]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Didn't you say the same thing about their Feb vaccination target? How did that go again?

That's very true and you're right.

Though my point wasn't:

- will they hit their objectives?

It was:

- how do we know what the objective are?

We have no way of knowing as they've decided to be completely opaque with the targets for the 4 measures.

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, st dan said:

I also will of course be taking the vaccine when offered, but I don’t think you can just dismiss those people that fall into the bolded category. Basically, every person under the age of 40 may be concerned about the vaccine if they are trying to conceive, or are planning to do so in the future. No conclusive study has been carried out yet to confirm that the vaccines will have no impact to this (although I’m sure that’s a formality). But each person does have the right to make their own decisions in line with their own thought process, however ‘wrong’ that might appear to some.  

But there are a few things we do know:

1) We are not going for a zero COVID strategy - we're not trying to wipe it out entirely

2) While the vaccines may reduce transmission, they're not 100% effective at this, or even 99%

So COVID is still going to be around. So unless you are going to continue isolating yourself indefinitely, without the vaccine you are going to get COVID.

So it's not a choice of vaccine or no vaccine, it's a choice of vaccine or COVID.

No conclusive study has yet been carried out to confirm COVID has no impact on fertility. Indeed, some early studies suggest it might well do. 

There have been no trials into the long term effects of COVID, because it's only be around just over a year. It's impossible to know. Yes, it's possible that the vaccine could cause, I dunno, liver cancer three years after you take it. It's also possible that COVID could cause live cancer three years after you get it. We can't say for sure on either.

But we know a hell of a lot more about the vaccine than we do COVID.

And that's what people are saying: I trust COVID more than the vaccine. And that is pretty "wrong" however you look at it, and can only really be justified by conspiracy nonsense.

(I guess the one exception I'd give here is people who have already had COVID - in which case they already have already taken on the risk of having COVID so why take on the risk of having the vaccine too - there's some logic to that - still flawed as we have even less data on the long term effects of multiple COVID infections)

 

 

[zahidf]

7 minutes ago, xxialac said:

That seems very unlikely.

And he road map leak came out before the news in the Bristol press.

Festival manager has decided they won't go ahead if reopening dates are tight to 21 June.
News emerges that it's tight to 21 June.

Festival manager tells press it's off. It just takes a quick phone call.

no way did 'all restrictions are off by 21st June' turn up before Boris's statement

 

Anyway, was posted in this thread 3 hours before the parliamentary announcement

A

[Quark]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

(I guess the one exception I'd give here is people who have already had COVID - in which case they already have already taken on the risk of having COVID so why take on the risk of having the vaccine too - there's some logic to that - still flawed as we have even less data on the long term effects of multiple COVID infections)

This is an interesting point, being one of those who's had it.  The key driver that will make me get the vaccine is the reduction in transmission, as to me that makes it more of a social responsibility than personal protection.

[xxialac]

6 minutes ago, Quark said:

The visible targets could also work the other way though. There could be visible or developing trends that point towards stuff going the wrong way, but if all the numbers at that point are "correct" then they're facing a barrage of demands that they should be lifting restrictions as defined by their own criteria.

TBH I'm not completely unhappy that the govt aren't setting the criteria for exiting a national pandemic lockdown by using the same system that I set my annual objectives at work!

That's a very good counter-argument.

That said, having no targets means the government can do whatever it wants with no accounatability.

I also see Johnson has said he is "VERY CONFIDENT" all restrictions will end on June 21.

This seems reckless to me, given the unknowns ahead.

[fraybentos1]

13 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Is ibruprofen an experimental treatment based on new technology that has not had any long term trials? It's not just a question of short-term side effects. We have 50 years of data on Ibuprofen so the overall risks and benefits are well known, despite that a lot of people ARE reluctant to take any medication for minor illnesses.

That's very liberal use of 'lot of people'. Who on earth are these people you speak of.

[gazzared]

8 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Is ibruprofen an experimental treatment based on new technology that has not had any long term trials? It's not just a question of short-term side effects. We have 50 years of data on Ibuprofen so the overall risks and benefits are well known, despite that a lot of people ARE reluctant to take any medication for minor illnesses.

New yes but theyve still done decades of reserach regarding the new treatments.

My point being was that most of the time it's the idoits with no brain cells who are the saying they wont take the vaccine due to unknown side effects.

Must admit I was suprised that 1 in 10,000 can suffer heart failure after taking ibruprofen but imagine if that was a possible side effect of the covid vaccine - people would jump all over that and would be headline news.