When will this shit end?

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Paul ™ said:

Good luck proving where people have been coming back from Europe 

Yes, if you take a train or drive, there'll be no record. 
If you fly via a different Schengen country...not sure if that creates a record on your passport - think it does.

[Paul ™]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

Yes, if you take a train or drive, there'll be no record. 
If you fly via a different Schengen country...not sure if that creates a record on your passport - think it does.

I'd assume UK border force will have no access to the Schengen systems?

But yes overland there is not a chance of proof.

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

"Anyone who lies on the passenger locator form and tries to conceal that they’ve been in a country on the red list in the 10 days before arrival here will face a prison sentence of up to 10 years."

I appreciate that we are in a pandemic but that is grossly and absurdly OTT.

For one thing they'll have been tested negative for Covid. And where's the proportionality? Some rule dodgy rule breaking gets a small fine (like breaking quarantine), others like this gets a long prison sentence. 

Let's not forget the PM's own father bent the rules in a similar way.

It’s a harsh punishment to try to encourage people to take this seriously. If you have a £20 fine instead it’s hardly likely to stop people trying to beat the system is it? As with anything, be open and honest and you’ll have no issues with any penalties. I suspect a grand total of zero people will end up with 10 years in jail as a result of this. 

We get that you don’t like this government and they can’t do a single thing right in your eyes, but you seem to constantly criticise every single action without fail. 

[JoeyT]

Up the vaccine!

 

[fatyeti24]

19 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

Time to increase my prices for this summer.

[squirrelarmy]

6 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

I'd assume UK border force will have no access to the Schengen systems?

But yes overland there is not a chance of proof.

While I was traveling around Europe by train, the only time my passport was stamped was when I left the Schengen area but passport checks do happen on the trains as you cross borders. That was pre Brexit era though so not sure if anything has changed for UK travellers since then. 

[Ozanne]

Good job PM. 

[shoptildrop]

 

[st dan]

‘More dangerous than Covid’ apparently according to the article. Should I make a new thread?

[JB15]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

‘More dangerous than Covid’ apparently according to the article. Should I make a new thread?

absolutley, f*** that way of reporting news. It isn’t new to play on fears in the press, but it’s still despicable 

[philipsteak]

25 minutes ago, xxialac said:

"Anyone who lies on the passenger locator form and tries to conceal that they’ve been in a country on the red list in the 10 days before arrival here will face a prison sentence of up to 10 years."

I appreciate that we are in a pandemic but that is grossly and absurdly OTT.

For one thing they'll have been tested negative for Covid. And where's the proportionality? Some rule dodgy rule breaking gets a small fine (like breaking quarantine), others like this gets a long prison sentence. 

Let's not forget the PM's own father bent the rules in a similar way.

 

15 minutes ago, st dan said:

It’s a harsh punishment to try to encourage people to take this seriously. If you have a £20 fine instead it’s hardly likely to stop people trying to beat the system is it? As with anything, be open and honest and you’ll have no issues with any penalties. I suspect a grand total of zero people will end up with 10 years in jail as a result of this. 

We get that you don’t like this government and they can’t do a single thing right in your eyes, but you seem to constantly criticise every single action without fail. 

 

 

[Paul ™]

11 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

While I was traveling around Europe by train, the only time my passport was stamped was when I left the Schengen area but passport checks do happen on the trains as you cross borders. That was pre Brexit era though so not sure if anything has changed for UK travellers since then. 

Traveled through France, Spain, Portugual, Belgium, Luxemburg, Andorra over past 5 months and had no checks done apart from arriving in France.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Paul ™
Typo

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Would like to see:

 

8th March: Schools return in full, rule of six allowed in outdoor places only, support bubbles rules extended so that every household can bubble with another

 

3rd April: Non-essential retail, gyms and hairdressers reopen

 

1st May: Hospitality venues reopen with physical distancing measures in place, rule of six applies to all venues including private homes and pubs

 

29th May: Removal of physical distancing measure apart from enhanced sanitation and face coverings, outdoor gigs and sporting events can have crowds. Private gatherings of up to 30 allowed

 

26th June: Removal of limits on gathering sizes. Face coverings are no longer compulsory however they are strongly advised if you feel unwell. All remaining businesses to reopen including nightclubs, and crowds allowed at indoor events.

 

 

This gives a 4-week window between each level of relaxation so that the roadmap can be paused or reversed if the numbers start creeping up. 

 

 

 

I reckon this might be close to what we get, all being well.

[priest17]

1 minute ago, philipsteak said:

 

 

 

Glastonbury will be back on a fallow year by then anyway.

[steviewevie]

2 hours ago, eastynh said:

Well, I have just been vaccinated. Onwards and upwards.

👍

[zahidf]

Mark Harper, the Conservative MP who chairs the Covid Recovery Group, which represents Tory backbenchers pushing for an end to the lockdown, asked Matt Hancock when these new regulations would end. He said he was worried that if the virus continued to mutate, the restrictions could be in place forever.

Hancock said these measures could not remain in place forever. The first task was to vaccinate the population, he said. But he went on to suggest that the lifting of the restrictions would be linked to the performance of the vaccines against new variants. He said:

If we get good news on the vaccination impact on hospitalisations and deaths from people who have ... new mutations, then we will be in a better place.

If we do not get such good news, then we will need to use the updated vaccines to protect against the variants of concern.

These scientists inform and advise me that there are repeatedly, independently around the world, mutations of the same type in the E484K area of the virus [the E484K mutation is the one in the South African variant, associated with making it more vaccine resistant, that may be emerging in the Kent variant too] ... That gives the scientists a good start in where to target the new, updated vaccine. That is if we have to wait until then.

It may be that we get enough efficacy from the existing vaccines against hospitalisation and death that they work perfectly well to hold this down. We just don’t know that yet. Hence the precautionary principle applies.

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

It’s a harsh punishment to try to encourage people to take this seriously. If you have a £20 fine instead it’s hardly likely to stop people trying to beat the system is it? As with anything, be open and honest and you’ll have no issues with any penalties. I suspect a grand total of zero people will end up with 10 years in jail as a result of this. 

We get that you don’t like this government and they can’t do a single thing right in your eyes, but you seem to constantly criticise every single action without fail. 

My main point, which you've misunderstood, was how arbitrary the punishment is. And that's a strawman argument, I don't think it should be a £20 fine, I think it should be in line with other fines.

Cummings - zero punishment

Some bad rule breaks increasing the spread - a few £100s fine

Taking a PCR test, testing negative, then lying on your form about a country you came through - up to 10 years in jail 

And if they REALLY wanted to stop the possibility foreign variants, they'd cancel flights from everywhere. They've watered down the plans and scientists have already pointed out that their plan will be ineffective.

[steviewevie]

1 hour ago, JoeyT said:

My 1 year old has been in some sort of lockdown for almost her entire life.

No swimming lessons, no kids classes, no staying at her grandparents, barely been held or seen in person by any of our friends.

She's not showing signs of it affecting her but bugger me it's affected me and my wife knowing how much she has missed out on.

I feel so much for those people with kids having to deal with both the affects this period has had on themselves but also their children.

I think a 1 year old will be ok...they just need their parent(s). It's toddler age that must be a real challenge. Infact all age groups have different challenges and different needs. My kid is different again, teenager. She has struggled with all sorts of problems since early teenage years, but overall has been doing well during this pandemic and lockdown. She wants it to end though, she's sick of it....and maybe she has grown out a lot of her mental health problems anyway, hard to know. Maybe school pressure was part of the problem...actually I know it was, GCSE pressure.

[JoeyT]

 

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

My main point, which you've misunderstood, was how arbitrary the punishment is. And that's a strawman argument, I don't think it should be a £20 fine, I think it should be in line with other fines.

Cummings - zero punishment

Some bad rule breaks increasing the spread - a few £100s fine

Taking a PCR test, testing negative, then lying on your form about a country you came through - up to 10 years in jail 

And if they REALLY wanted to stop the possibility foreign variants, they'd cancel flights from everywhere. They've watered down the plans and scientists have already pointed out that their plan will be ineffective.

I get your points re previous punishments for breaking the restrictions you have mentioned, but these new ‘foreign’ variants have potential to undo all the good work of the vaccine rollout, and effectively move us back to square one if not monitored and managed appropriately - hence the tougher punishments they have attached. As I say though, it’s merely a scare tactic. If you come back from abroad and you have to weigh up whether you would rather quarantine for 2 weeks and send a couple of tests, or risk 10 years in jail or a huge fine? Its a no brainier.

In regards to cancelling all flights from everywhere, are they actually in a position to do that? Like in terms of airlines (Ryanair/EasyJet would surely go bust), plus the damage it would do the Spain, Greece, Cyprus etc in terms of tourism and their economy? I know first aim should be to protect the UK, but locking down would have catastrophic knock on effects, which I’m sure they have to take into consideration. 

[gizmoman]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

Well why should a vaccine take longer to develop? The current long lead times on vaccines and most medical progress is because we don't really fund this stuff in the way we could. The only real limiting factor is that you trial things for safety and real world testing, and that takes time. The development work can be accelerated loads by throwing money and people at it.

That's true. We don't know the impact the vaccine has on fertility. However, we also don't know the impact COVID has on fertility. And we're not going for a zero-COVID strategy here either, which means eventually things will get opened up and there are three choices: get the vaccine, inevitably get COVID, or continue to isolate yourself until you've had the kids you want.

Most people don't seem to be suggesting the latter. Which means they're accepting they will get COVID. Which means between the COVID vaccine and COVID, they're deciding that COVID itself is probably safer. And there's no basis for that whatsoever. All the evidence suggests otherwise: like, no-one has died from the vaccine yet but 2.3 million have died from COVID.

Yeah I find this bizarre too. Up to this point all the conspiracy theories that thing there's a shadowy cabal controlling the world seem to link them to big business and the vested interests of billionaires. Those interests require people consuming stuff. Not staying indoors doing nothing.

If there's is a shadowy cabal controlling all this stuff, it's basically Extinction Rebellion in suits!

The billionaires of the world have increased their wealth over the last year, the lockdowns have not impacted them negatively, you are basing your theory on us continuing to be a consumption driven economy, the plan going forward is to be "sustainable" which means much lower consumption, especially of energy, this means less travel, less "unnecessary" leisure consumption and a reduction in "wasteful" activities. Life for much of the world may not change much under this plan but in the west where we have become used to driving where we want when we want and jetting off all over the world on cheap flights, we are in for a shock.

"If there's is a shadowy cabal controlling all this stuff, it's basically Extinction Rebellion in suits"

I know you were joking but yep, that's right but they're not in the shadows, all this is set in the agendas of the WEF, UN etc, how quickly life will change and how much of a restriction we will have on our ability to travel remains to be seen, they have openly admitted using this crisis to speed up the implementation of some of these policies. Air travel will not return as it was in my opinion (but I'm Loopy of course). There is a valid argument about us in the west using more than our fair share of the earths resources it's just a bit hard to take from billionaires flying around the world in private jets.

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by gizmoman
typo

[Ozanne]

13 minutes ago, philipsteak said:

 

 

 

Yeah there’s absolutely no way a person is going to jail for 10 years for this. This has been designed for the headlines only. 

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

I get your points re previous punishments for breaking the restrictions you have mentioned, but these new ‘foreign’ variants have potential to undo all the good work of the vaccine rollout, and effectively move us back to square one if not monitored and managed appropriately - hence the tougher punishments they have attached. As I say though, it’s merely a scare tactic. If you come back from abroad and you have to weigh up whether you would rather quarantine for 2 weeks and send a couple of tests, or risk 10 years in jail or a huge fine? Its a no brainier.

In regards to cancelling all flights from everywhere, are they actually in a position to do that? Like in terms of airlines (Ryanair/EasyJet would surely go bust), plus the damage it would do the Spain, Greece, Cyprus etc in terms of tourism and their economy? I know first aim should be to protect the UK, but locking down would have catastrophic knock on effects, which I’m sure they have to take into consideration. 

I hear you but you could apply the same to any law.

Why not now announce it's now 50 years in prison for stealing from old grannies as a scare tactic?

And why not announce it's also 10 years imprisonment for absconding from hotel quarantine (this is only a £10k fine)? Why single this particular rule out?

I know why they've done it which is to get newspaper headlines and to 'be seen to be tough'. They've just picked a rule at random for this from the travel related ones.

And there are a huge number of hauliers coming in every day? How are they not going to bring foreign variants in?

[Havors]

1 hour ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Tbf, I’m not sure there is a “covid season” in the same way as the flu (although transmission likely does go down as we naturally spend more time outdoors). But look at South Africa which is going full blown Wuhan even in the summer.

 

IMO cases were very low in June last year because we were 3 months into a very strict and very well adhered to lockdown more so than any seasonal factors.

Cases were very low for 4 months so cant be anything to do with lockdown. When we opened up there was no mask mandate either (thats a whole different discussion... cases went up after masks) Testing was massively increased at that time also....

The cases dropping dramatically now is most likely due to the lockdown (we are in "flu" season). I imagine the lockdown last year was pointless and too late, as we could see with the cases plummeting and staying next to nothing as we headed out of march/april. 

Looks seasonal to me.... granted that is only one year, but there is no reason to expect it to act any differently from other corona viruses. 

Edited February 9, 2021 by Havors

[Chapple12345]

7 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

 

Baring in mind the snowy conditions in lots of the east yesterday this is a pretty good stat