When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

Isn’t there roughly 950k teachers in the UK in public education so in theory if they are very well organised they could get them vaccinated in 3 or so days, which wouldn’t take delay others getting their vaccines by too much.

I realise it probably isn’t as simple as that but it might not be that much of a problem?

[xxialac]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/im-an-nhs-consultant-anaesthetist-i-see-the-terror-in-my-covid-patients-eyes

Brutal.

"If I get Covid, it will be just like the flu"

"Why are we shutting down society for an illness that only affects old people?"

Edited January 31, 2021 by xxialac

[zahidf]

25 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I disagree with Freedman's conclusion at the bottom. Starmer is talking about (his own version of) best use of a limited supply. It's not about going for a cheaper option.

And it's probably not a bad idea either. Vaccination centres are probably starting to run out of other 'worthy' groups they can call up at short notice to use up any spare jabs.

It's probably the case that the public would support teachers having a higher priority, too. And this is a great way of doing it without the general public feeling like they're being bumped down the priority themselves.

 

But the teachers aren't spreading it or at more risk of dying than over 60s (whod get less of the vaccine in that plan).

 

If we don't know if the vaccine stops spread, then doing it by age is probably still a better bet.

[Chapple12345]

One thing about the vaccination programme here in the UK which makes me happy is how those that need it most are getting it first whereas I've seen footage of people around the world who may not be priority e.g. politicians and OJ Simpson of all people, getting it before the vulnerable and healthcare workers, for all the faults if this pandemic I'm glad to see something working this successfully 

[alanr]

5 hours ago, JoeyT said:

Western Australia has gone in to a 5 day hard lockdown because 1 case has been identified outside of hotel quarantine...

My sister said the news is reporting it as a hotel security guard (presumably one of the quarantine hotels) gone rogue.

I'm just getting info on this from my daughter. It's 1 case from a quarantine hotel worker, seems there were 4 confirmed cases in the hotel "Of those four cases, we have at least three confirmed variant strains, two UK and one South Africa,"

It is a "real" lockdown

he following restrictions apply for the lockdown period: 

• People should not leave Perth, Peel or the South West during this period
• People can enter Perth, Peel or the South West only to access or deliver essential health and emergency services and other essential requirements 
• Non-residents currently in Perth, Peel and the South West are required to remain until the end of the restriction period however if you must leave for serious reasons you are to then return home immediately, stay home and get tested if symptoms develop
• Restaurants, cafes, pubs and bars to provide takeaway service only
• Elective surgery and procedures for categories 2 and 3 will be suspended from Tuesday, 2 February. Category 1 and urgent category 2 surgery will continue
• No visitors will be allowed in homes unless caring for a vulnerable person or in an emergency
• No visitors to hospitals or residential aged care and/or disability facilities
• No weddings permitted 
• Funerals are limited to 10 people
• Travel remains prohibited within remote Aboriginal communities.

Masks are to be worn at all times when outside of your place of residence, this includes at workplaces and on public transport. For more information about masks, see the Healthy WA website (this is an external website). 

Schools will be closed for this week. Term 1, 2021 was due to start from February 1 but that will be postponed by one week.

The following facilities in the Perth, Peel and South West regions will need to close:

• Schools, universities, TAFEs and education facilities
• Pubs, bars and clubs
• Gyms and indoor sporting venues
• Playgrounds, skate parks and outdoor recreational facilities
• Cinemas, entertainment venues, and casinos
• Beauty therapy services, parlour or salon including hairdressers, barbershop, nail salon, tattoo parlour, spa or massage parlour
• Large religious gatherings and places of worship 
• Libraries and cultural institutions

People will be required to stay at home unless they need to: 

• work because they can’t work from home or remotely;
• shop for essentials like groceries, medicine and necessary supplies;
• medical or health care needs including compassionate requirements and looking after the vulnerable; and
• exercise within their neighbourhood, but only with one other person and only for one hour per day. 

Government annoucement

News report

 

[xxialac]

3 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

One thing about the vaccination programme here in the UK which makes me happy is how those that need it most are getting it first whereas I've seen footage of people around the world who may not be priority e.g. politicians and OJ Simpson of all people, getting it before the vulnerable and healthcare workers, for all the faults if this pandemic I'm glad to see something working this successfully 

There's a really good argument for getting prominent politicians to have to it to show to people that it's safe and they're not asking people to do what they wouldn't do themselves.

And OJ Simpson is >70. Our murdering OAPs are getting vaccinated too.

Edited January 31, 2021 by xxialac

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

There's a really good argument for getting prominent politicians to have to it to show to people that it's safe and they're not asking people to do what they wouldn't do themselves.

And OJ Simpson is >70. Our murdering OAPs are getting vaccinated too.

Nah... they'd get accused of jumping through queue if they are young.

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Nah... they'd get accused of jumping through queue if they are young.

Doesn't matter what they are accused of. Having e.g. the leader/PM of the country vaccinated could help increase rates of vaccination.

You've completely missed my point.

Edited January 31, 2021 by xxialac

[st dan]

Wonder if there should be an argument for people of a certain weight / BMI getting some for of priority with the vaccine rollout, regardless of age. 

Mrs st dan who works on the Covid wards said the majority of those her hospital in their 30s/40s/50s are overweight/medically obese, but don’t necessarily have underlying conditions. Therefore they will be way down the priority queue for the vaccine rollout, but are some of the most vulnerable and unprotected. Could become a real issue when we gradually start opening up again. 

[steviewevie]

Andrew Rawnsley on Bojo's vaccine bounce.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/the-bad-taste-question-about-covid-that-everyone-at-westminster-is-asking

[zahidf]

31 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Isn’t there roughly 950k teachers in the UK in public education so in theory if they are very well organised they could get them vaccinated in 3 or so days, which wouldn’t take delay others getting their vaccines by too much.

I realise it probably isn’t as simple as that but it might not be that much of a problem?

Probably take more a week to get all that sorted.

But thats a week of 950k of higher risk people not having protection.

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

Wonder if there should be an argument for people of a certain weight / BMI getting some for of priority with the vaccine rollout, regardless of age. 

Mrs st dan who works on the Covid wards said the majority of those her hospital in their 30s/40s/50s are overweight/medically obese, but don’t necessarily have underlying conditions. Therefore they will be way down the priority queue for the vaccine rollout, but are some of the most vulnerable and unprotected. Could become a real issue when we gradually start opening up again. 

I think there’s definitely an argument to made for that. We can probably as supplies increase start to target vaccines at different groups of people. 

[Ozanne]

Just now, zahidf said:

Probably take more a week to get all that sorted.

But thats a week of 950k of higher risk people not having protection.

Yeah true, it probably wouldn’t work but if we are vaccinating circa 400k a day now then in theory couldn’t we take 3 or 4 days to get teachers vaccinated if it was extremely well organised?

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Andrew Rawnsley on Bojo's vaccine bounce.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/31/the-bad-taste-question-about-covid-that-everyone-at-westminster-is-asking

Thats interesting. Also his bit about how people remember the end of a crisis more than then beginning makes me think restrictions over sooner rather than later.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah true, it probably wouldn’t work but if we are vaccinating circa 400k a day now then in theory couldn’t we take 3 or 4 days to get teachers vaccinated if it was extremely well organised?

NHS is simple because they are vaccinating in hospitals. Teachers would be a lot harder. Its also the prep time e.t.c 

The medical evidence is that it wouldn't stop spread to vaccinate teachers first or that they are much higher risk of death than say transport workers.  

Its popular politically though. Its a political move from starmer

[zahidf]

9 minutes ago, st dan said:

Wonder if there should be an argument for people of a certain weight / BMI getting some for of priority with the vaccine rollout, regardless of age. 

Mrs st dan who works on the Covid wards said the majority of those her hospital in their 30s/40s/50s are overweight/medically obese, but don’t necessarily have underlying conditions. Therefore they will be way down the priority queue for the vaccine rollout, but are some of the most vulnerable and unprotected. Could become a real issue when we gradually start opening up again. 

Yeah after the over 50s are done, I can see that argument. Can't see how you can practically do it though.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

NHS is simple because they are vaccinating in hospitals. Teachers would be a lot harder. Its also the prep time e.t.c 

The medical evidence is that it wouldn't stop spread to vaccinate teachers first or that they are much higher risk of death than say transport workers.  

Its popular politically though. Its a political move from starmer

I’m just trying to think if they did it how it would work given the current figures. As you say there’s logistically issues there which mean it wouldn’t be as simple as I was thinking. 

[stuartbert two hats]

Sure, target groups on the basis of criteria other than age or clinical risk (once the very vulnerable have been protected). Prioritise workers in food processing plants, public transport and yes - teachers. But do this as part of a coherent plan, not a single issue "get schools back" scientifically illiterate populist nonsense. Closing schools wasn't about protecting teachers, it was because children were spreading the virus. And Starmer knows this.

He's supposed to be the clever one, I'd appreciate it if he stopped treating us like we were stupid.

Edited January 31, 2021 by stuartbert two hats
Added "once the very vulnerable have been protected"

[steviewevie]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Thats interesting. Also his bit about how people remember the end of a crisis more than then beginning makes me think restrictions over sooner rather than later.

maybe...but Johnson doesn't want to screw it up again...so might want to err on the side of caution. Anyway, restrictions to be eased March 8th onwards...starting with schools..

[st dan]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

maybe...but Johnson doesn't want to screw it up again...so might want to err on the side of caution. Anyway, restrictions to be eased March 8th onwards...starting with schools..

If the schools do reopen on 8th March - I hope the roadmap laid out by Johnson states that any further lockdowns and restrictions will be dictated by hospital admissions and deaths rather than number of positive tests or R number. Because when the schools do reopen we are definitely going to see another surge in cases, and maybe a significant one too. 

[onthebeach]

2 minutes ago, st dan said:

If the schools do reopen on 8th March - I hope the roadmap laid out by Johnson states that any further lockdowns and restrictions will be dictated by hospital admissions and deaths rather than number of positive tests or R number. Because when the schools do reopen we are definitely going to see another surge in cases, and maybe a significant one too. 

At the moment the plan must be to ‘open up’ nearly everything in May as the furlough scheme ends at the end of April. If hospitalisations and deaths are at an ‘acceptable’ level, I really can’t see an extension of the furlough scheme happening. Again, I wonder what the ‘acceptable’ level is?

[st dan]

7 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Closing schools wasn't about protecting teachers, it was because children were spreading the virus. And Starmer knows this.

He certainly does - he quite rightly criticised Johnson at PMQ last week on the decision to open schools for the one day in early January - and the surge in cases and subsequent deaths this decision caused, and not the fact that opening them caused any direct danger to the teachers themselves. 

[Ozanne]

Just now, onthebeach said:

At the moment the plan must be to ‘open up’ nearly everything in May as the furlough scheme ends at the end of April. If hospitalisations and deaths are at an ‘acceptable’ level, I really can’t see an extension of the furlough scheme happening. Again, I wonder what the ‘acceptable’ level is?

I think they’ll mainly at hospital admissions, if those are staying at a lowish level and are static then they I think they’ll press ahead with their plan to loosen measures.

Also furlough does end at the end of April but there’s going to a budget in March so it could be extended. 

[Ozanne]

One year ago today the UK reported it’s first COVID case:

 

[JoeyT]

Hope those who are were having a down day yesterday can see that the government have repeatedly said that summer will be much more normal. Keep those chins up.

Hancock at it again this morning, I hope we can all be in agreement that things will be significantly different than they are now in the next 6 months.