When will this shit end?

[Fuzzy Afro]

40 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I'd like to see all people that work out in the community prioritised over those that can work from home st least (other than those at high risk for age and clinical reasons). But appreciate very difficult to prove.

There’s also the issue that the bureaucracy of arranging the rollout shouldn’t take more time than the rollout itself. 

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

From AZ CEO. If that's the case, things should improve sooner rather than later?

That’s what really matters. For all that it would be beneficial to clamp down on community transmission, avoid mutations and minimise the impact of “long covid”, the fundamental issue is that we want to drastically reduce the death rate and remove the risk of the NHS being overwhelmed. 

[xxialac]

So true, this...

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

7 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

This was always going to be the case eventually.

If anything i'm surprised there hasn't been more of a switch to opposing lockdowns in polls.

Looking at the riots in Netherlands. I guess we just don’t value freedom in this country. 

11 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

The strategy is to be keep the management of sick people within the capacity of the NHS. As the 69 yr old is much more likely to take up NHS facilities (e.g. intensive care bed) than the 20 we would seem to be following the right plan?

I guess the issue is that the 20 year old could go on and spread it to 3 other 69 year olds leading to higher pressure on the NHS? 

[fraybentos1]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Looking at the riots in Netherlands. I guess we just don’t value freedom in this country. 

That's a strange take on things... And by that I mean it's total nonsense of course.

[JoeyT]

5 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I guess with the hope of a slow way out and the rollout of the jab seeming to be going well that might well appease some people ... although how long people remain patient is anyones guess 

I think the real sticking point for a lot of people will be if things haven't been relaxed (at least meeting as a group outside) when the weather improves mid March time.

[HalfAnIdiot]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Looking at the riots in Netherlands. I guess we just don’t value freedom in this country. 

I guess the issue is that the 20 year old could go on and spread it to 3 other 69 year olds leading to higher pressure on the NHS? 

If the 20 year old was following lockdown regs the probability of that would be reduced. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, fraybentos1 said:

That's a strange take on things... And by that I mean it's total nonsense of course.

The Dutch are going absolutely nuts to get their freedom back and it sounds like the French are ready to do the same. Whereas here we just let the government do what they like. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, HalfAnIdiot said:

If the 20 year old was following lockdown regs the probability of that would be reduced. 

But the hypothetical 20 year old copper literally needs to come into contact with others as part of their job? 

[efcfanwirral]

10 minutes ago, HalfAnIdiot said:

How to you square that comment with large chunks of the economy currently being shut down at the behest of the government? 

I mean all the early liftings, late lockdowns etc are to appease that radical wing of the Tory party- without them we might have sensible government and I doubt that will change going forward

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I think the real sticking point for a lot of people will be if things haven't been relaxed (at least meeting as a group outside) when the weather improves mid March time.

I honestly can’t see a situation where by Easter they haven’t started to loosen restrictions. Due to many reason but they’ll want to get the country going again by then. 

[balthazarstarbuck]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I guess the issue is that the 20 year old could go on and spread it to 3 other 69 year olds leading to higher pressure on the NHS? 

I didn’t think we had hard evidence about whether the vaccine stops transmission yet?

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The Dutch are going absolutely nuts to get their freedom back and it sounds like the French are ready to do the same. Whereas here we just let the government do what they like. 

yeah, well see there's this pandemic...etc.

[DeanoL]

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

that's an irrelevance to what I said.

If a new strain is a threat, it's a threat that will always remain at the same level as now.

Depends what the threat is? If the threat is that the NHS gets overwhelmed, that won't necessarily be an issue later on. It's the cumulative effect - we're in lockdown right now with schools closed and seem to barely be keeping a lid on things. If a new variant turns up that's more infectious, it could nudge R back over 1 (though morbidly, if a new variant arrives that's more deadly it could "help" with hospital numbers). Whereas if the vaccination gets the numbers right down, a slightly more infectious strain won't have the same impact.

2 hours ago, MEGABOWL said:

Have to agree with the FT. As much as pains me as a Remainer.

I'm a remainer. I see the EU problem with the vaccine programme the result of them no longer having our voice as part of the decision making process. We had massively influence in the EU, there's every chance we could have pushed the idea of getting things done more swiftly and more broadly, as we have here. Being a remainer doesn't just mean believing the UK was better off in the EU, it means believing the EU was better off with the UK in it also.

49 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

Does it not seem to be dependent on whether the vaccine reduces transmission? If it does, then it is in everyone's benefit if those that are having most contact with others are vaccinated.

The elephant in the room is that kids cannot get the vaccine yet and are a huge source of spread when schools are in.

Yeah if we vaccinate teachers, that means we intend to reopen schools, and we're going to do that, surely we then need to look at vaccinating parents first too?

[xxialac]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The Dutch are going absolutely nuts to get their freedom back and it sounds like the French are ready to do the same. Whereas here we just let the government do what they like. 

Less than 0.1% of the Dutch are going absolutely nuts to get their freedom back and it sounds like less than 0.1% of the French are ready to do the same. Whereas here our 0.1% haven't resorted to violent protests yet.

I think the above is what you meant to write.

 

[steviewevie]

what we need to do is vaccinate everybody.

[zahidf]

2 minutes ago, xxialac said:

Less than 0.1% of the Dutch are going absolutely nuts to get their freedom back and it sounds like less than 0.1% of the French are ready to do the same. Whereas here our 0.1% haven't resorted to violent protests yet.

I think the above is what you meant to write.

 

If more than 50% of French people are against lockdowns, it wont be  0.1% of their population on the streets....

France has somewhat of a history of civil disobedience

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

I didn’t think we had hard evidence about whether the vaccine stops transmission yet?

Thats what they are looking at to get evidence for before Feb 15th...

[HalfAnIdiot]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

But the hypothetical 20 year old copper literally needs to come into contact with others as part of their job? 

They do, and should be considered for early jabs but only in the wider context of keeping infections within the capacity of the NHS.

Prioritising protection of the NHS makes decisions on vaccine rollout 'fairly' straight forward. Once the level of hospitalisations reduce significantly the prioritisation of vaccine rollout becomes less straight forward and open to options - I expect pressure to come from many quartets as to why different groups should be pushed up the list. Managing that to the satisfaction of all will be difficult to say the least.

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

If more than 50% of French people are against lockdowns, it wont be  0.1% of their population on the streets....

France has somewhat of a history of civil disobedience

I was making the distinction between violent protest as seen in Amsterdam and peaceful ones.

The idea that this government is overly strict about lockdown relative to other countries is not remotely supported by the evidence.

And of course we have a lockdown. We have the worst death numbers at present anywhere in the world.

[steviewevie]

Why has Britain suffered more than 100,000 Covid deaths?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/why-has-britain-suffered-more-than-100000-covid-deaths

[Rex2]

46 minutes ago, Mellotr0n said:

Sir Simon Smith of the NHS intimated yesterday that once any priority groups are done (ie all over-50s, and key workers/higher risk/higher contact individuals) that there will come a time where rather than being called forward, we will be told we can then book in to get a jab if we want one.

Think this would be a bad move. People do stuff when it's simplified.

Come here on this date at this time and they're more likely to do it. 

Ring this number / fill out this form / go to this website and people are much less likely to bother 

[steviewevie]

If there weren't vaccines being rolled out so rapidly here I wouldn't be that surprised if there was unrest and some protests...but at same time we would still have our hospitals stretched to breaking point. It really would be very, very grim.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

I was making the distinction between violent protest as seen in Amsterdam and peaceful ones.

The idea that this government is overly strict about lockdown relative to other countries is not remotely supported by the evidence.

And of course we have a lockdown. We have the worst death numbers at present anywhere in the world.

oh i wasnt talking about the situation here. Was a comment on France. 

[Ozanne]

 

[Mellotr0n]

1 minute ago, Rex2 said:

Think this would be a bad move. People do stuff when it's simplified.

Come here on this date at this time and they're more likely to do it. 

Ring this number / fill out this form / go to this website and people are much less likely to bother 

I think there will be enough incentives to get the vaccines - unable to do certain social things without - that it won't be an issue.

I get what you're saying, but I think there could also be a big backlash in being seen to "force" young, healthy people to be vaccinated.