When will this shit end?

[SheffJeff]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m sure in emergency circumstances they can be given a dose of AZ instead. This was discussed a few weeks back. 

Thanks... don't remember it being discussed but this thread moves fast so must have missed it.  Will have a look.

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Biden working some magic .... or chucking a few quid in  their direction ? 

I think Trump not being involved in any negotiations will be a big help! Amazing when happens when sensible adults try to strike a deal. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Thanks... don't remember it being discussed but this thread moves fast so must have missed it.  Will have a look.

I don’t mean on this thread as such but when the policy was extended to a 12 week gap, there was a line in there which said that if possible people ought to have the same vaccine 12 weeks apart, but in emergencies a “mix and match” is permissible 

[steviewevie]

Doc about China and the pandemic on beeb2 tonight.

[steviewevie]

 

[st dan]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Doc about China and the pandemic on beeb2 tonight.

This is going to make a lot of people very angry I guess. Read the article on BBC News this morning and that was enough to get the blood boiling with how they handled this. If they had followed protocol, all of this could quite easily have been prevented. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

This is going to make a lot of people very angry I guess. Read the article on BBC News this morning and that was enough to get the blood boiling with how they handled this. If they had followed protocol, all of this could quite easily have been prevented. 

I get the impression they wanted it to spread to the rest of the world. 

[steviewevie]

Covax etc

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-55795297

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I get the impression they wanted it to spread to the rest of the world. 

By killing a large amount of people in their own country and risking stability at home (and abroad) which they're desperate to hold on to? I don't know. I think they just covered it up, hoped they could contain it and it would just go away....

[Ozanne]

54 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Yeah, the EU are right to demand answers, and indeed, to demand their vaccine. What I don't think is on is specifically requesting they divert stocks from the UK. That seems political to me. Especially as that's basically saying "fulfill our order and short the UK instead". 

It's like if I ordered a Playstation 5, and then a week before release day Sony said "sorry, we haven't got enough stock to fulfill your order". It's right for me to be angry and demand better, but it's not right for me to say to them "well this guy Mike I know at work is getting one, can you send me his?"

Yeah all the EU want is their order to be fulfilled on time as per the contract. It’s not too outrageous to expect that and if there has been a breach of contract then action should be taken to rectify that. 

[Toilet Duck]

1 hour ago, Copperface said:

The ironic thing is that the three most dangerous variants so far are the UK, South African and Brazilian variants. 

The three trials done by AZ were based in......the UK, South Africa and Brazil.

 

I am only joking btw, before anyone jumps down my throat and accuses me off doing the country down.😲

It’s actually quite a good thing that the trials are ongoing in the countries where the variants are most prevalent as we’ll get actual outcome data on how well the vaccines work in vaccinated individuals rather than testing the neutralising capacity of their serum in the lab. It’s also no surprise that the trials and variants coincide as the variants are emerging in regions where spread is uncontrolled, which are exactly the best places to run a vaccine trial quickly!

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

Just now, Toilet Duck said:

It’s actually quite a good thing that the trials are ongoing in the countries where the variants are most prevalent as we’ll get actual outcome data on how well the vaccines work in vaccinated individuals rather than testing the neutralising capacity of their serum in the lab. It’s also no surprise that the trials and variants coincide as the variants are emerging in regions where spread is uncontrolled, which are exactly the best places to run a vaccine trial quickly!

Is it possible the trials played a part in forcing the virus to mutate?

[Mr.Tease]

59 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

My 75 year old Mum is booked in for her first jab on Friday 🙂

 

My mum (77) had her's last week (for some reason my area seems to be a bit ahead at the moment)- she's says she feels stronger and more virile than ever before!

Not really, but she did say she had no side effects from the Pfizer one (some of her older friends said they were fatigued the first day or slept longer), and the vaccination place was very helpful and well organised (she can get a bit flustered or confused when she doesn't know what she's doing). 

I remember someone on here posted that their parent burst into tears when they got their phone call- I almost did likewise when my mum got hers! didn't realise how just much worry I'd been carrying all year about her, hopefully she can stay out of mischief for the next few weeks until it takes effect.

[steviewevie]

4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah all the EU want is their order to be fulfilled on time as per the contract. It’s not too outrageous to expect that and if there has been a breach of contract then action should be taken to rectify that. 

but to block Pfizer supplies to UK?

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Toilet Duck said:

It’s actually quite a good thing that the trials are ongoing in the countries where the variants are most prevalent as we’ll get actual outcome data on how well the vaccines work in vaccinated individuals rather than testing the neutralising capacity of their serum in the lab. It’s also no surprise that the trials and variants coincide as the variants are emerging in regions where spread is uncontrolled, which are exactly the best places to run a vaccine trial quickly!

is it also sensible that the vaccine gets rolled out in high prevalence countries too ? would getting the numbers of infections down be sensible to lower risk of mutations ? or will it just cause it to mutate differently ... my point being is that is it not sensible to roll out first to the areas most decimated so far ? .... im sumising and not suggesting any particular place should not get it by the way 

[Ozanne]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

but to block Pfizer supplies to UK?

I was thinking action with AZ, I would hope they don’t go about blocking exports. 

[steviewevie]

Just now, Ozanne said:

I was thinking action with AZ, I would hope they don’t go about blocking exports. 

but AZ vaccine we get is manufactured here.

[Toilet Duck]

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Is it possible the trials played a part in forcing the virus to mutate?

Based on the number of alterations seen in some of the variants, they more likely arose in immunocompromised individuals that had long infections rather than as a result of the immunisation programme/vaccine trials. Uncontrolled spread is the bigger driver of change at the moment, there just isn't enough people vaccinated within the trials compared to those naturally infected for it to be the reason. It's not impossible that with widespread vaccination we put a selective pressure on the virus to change, but that would just require updating of the vaccines from time to time as new versions emerge, much in the same way we update the flu vaccine each year (if the virus can still spread among vaccinated individuals, then there's less pressure on the virus to change anyway, so it could also just settle into a pattern of mild disease). There are additional vaccines under development that target other parts of the virus less prone to alteration that could work against a whole range of coronaviruses (existing and future threats), will be interesting to see how they pan out! 

[steviewevie]

8 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

It’s actually quite a good thing that the trials are ongoing in the countries where the variants are most prevalent as we’ll get actual outcome data on how well the vaccines work in vaccinated individuals rather than testing the neutralising capacity of their serum in the lab. It’s also no surprise that the trials and variants coincide as the variants are emerging in regions where spread is uncontrolled, which are exactly the best places to run a vaccine trial quickly!

Maybe Boris was helping out AZ by letting the virus get out of control here...?

[Toilet Duck]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

is it also sensible that the vaccine gets rolled out in high prevalence countries too ? would getting the numbers of infections down be sensible to lower risk of mutations ? or will it just cause it to mutate differently ... my point being is that is it not sensible to roll out first to the areas most decimated so far ? .... im sumising and not suggesting any particular place should not get it by the way 

really depends on what impact the vaccine has on transmission. Most expect it to have some impact, and we have an early indication of this from the AZ trial, but we won't know for sure for a while yet. 

[Toilet Duck]

Just now, steviewevie said:

Maybe Boris was helping out AZ by letting the virus get out of control here...?

😀

One of the reasons they opened in the US/SA/Brazil was because the virus was reasonably under control in the UK when they started their trial last summer!

[Mr.Tease]

1 hour ago, SheffJeff said:

Just been thinking and if the EU does restrict exports of the Pfizer vaccine leading to subsequent delays where does that leave those already vaccinated with one dose of the Pfizer vaccine? 

I know we've extended the gap between doses from 3 weeks to 12 weeks to vaccinate as many people as possible but is there an upper limit where the effects of the first dose wear off?

That's been my fear, but I'm wondering, have we got muddled up? In the guardian article I think they said AZ also has a manufacturing plant in Belgium (as well as Pfizer), so it's that that maybe the EU is targeting/threatening/extorting- that would make much more sense than taking it out on Pfizer.

Basically the EU is saying: we suspect you're still exporting the required quantities of the vaccine to the UK (in addition to the ones made in the UK), so we want you to declare want you're up to. And even if you're not exporting, we want you to send some made in the UK to us or we'll make your life difficult.

[Mr.Tease]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

but to block Pfizer supplies to UK?

I think Pfizer AND AZ have plants in Belgium- I think the EU are targeting the AZ plant, not the Pfizer one

[fraybentos1]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah all the EU want is their order to be fulfilled on time as per the contract. It’s not too outrageous to expect that and if there has been a breach of contract then action should be taken to rectify that. 

There was also a delay in what the UK received in December from AZ, it's just the EU is seeing it now cause they were slow to agree on orders and slow to approve the vaccine and have it ready to actually be given out.

[sadimmock]

14 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yeah all the EU want is their order to be fulfilled on time as per the contract. It’s not too outrageous to expect that and if there has been a breach of contract then action should be taken to rectify that. 

However the contract was on a best endeavours basis and the EU delayed signing by several months. Certainly in my industry the clock starts ticking for milestones and deliveries when the contact becomes effective. 
 

I really don’t want to pay the U.K. Gov any kind of compliment whatsoever, but early signature did give AZ time to sort out their supply chain as pertained to the U.K. contract.