When will this shit end?

[Fuzzy Afro]

5 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Why? the insurers tried to get out of paying and were told they had to pay

Because contractually, they shouldn’t have to pay.

 

Business interruption insurance is very carefully worded. You buy it as an add on to property damage cover. If the property is damaged and as a result you have to close the business for a while, then the insurer pays your loss of earnings.

 

Having to close down because the government mandates so due to pandemic is absolute not something the insurers signed up for. The insurance industry has been completely stitched up. 

[st dan]

1 minute ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

We all know the best way to tackle the virus is if they nailed our doors shut so we couldn’t leave the house at all. That would get the virus completely under control.

The problem is that would massively affect people’s mental health and screw the economy even further.

It’s a balance, but changing one thing will have a positive impact in one place but a negative elsewhere. It would be really simple if it was only about the virus, but it isn’t.

Totally agree with this - a lot of people are finding some comfort in the long, dark and cold days by being able to have a takeaway a couple of times a week. To keep taking away even small luxuries, mental health is going to be eroded even further.
If there is substantial evidence of widespread transmission from takeaways being open, then fair enough they should be closed. But if there isn’t, then keeping them open is the best solution I feel, also for the business owners which allows them to keep ticking over in these tough times. 

[Quark]

2 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

The problem is that would massively affect people’s mental health

Not pointed at you at all, but it's really quite amazing to see the number of people who seem to have shifted from "snowflakes need to man up" to "people's mental health, oh won't somebody think of the children" over the past 12 months. It's almost as if it's a convenient way for people to complain about lockdown restrictions....

[Simsy]

18 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

On the takeaways thing, there are pros and cons, need to see where the skills tip:

 

Pros:

- Allows businesses to keep trading, keeping people off furlough and benefits the economy

- Allowing anything that resembles normality, e.g. allowing people their weekly or monthly takeaway, is going to help people’s mental health

- Probable minimal impact on transmission of the virus.

 

Cons:

- Will have some impact on transmission, albeit minimal 

- More reasons for people being out of their home

 

I guess the fact that R already seems to be below 1 is the clinching factor for me in why takeaways should be allowed to stay open, but I do agree with the mitigations that Scotland has taken.
 

That’s to say that takeaway food should either be delivery, drive-through, or click and collect but given at the doorway. No entering a takeaway and queueing etc. That seems to be a fair balance I reckon. 

Also re. takeaways, if you can't cook because you're unwell (not necessarily covid related), your oven's stopped working or you don't have a proper kitchen (eg some student halls), a takeaway might be the only hot meal you can get.

[steviewevie]

If case numbers are going down then I guess restrictions are good enough. Is the decrease in case numbers is enough to keep NHS from being overwhelmed in a few weeks...I don't know? Some hospitals have already been overwhelmed anyway, but they are kept running by just cancelling or stopping other treatments and re-directing resources.

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Quark said:

Not pointed at you at all, but it's really quite amazing to see the number of people who seem to have shifted from "snowflakes need to man up" to "people's mental health, oh won't somebody think of the children" over the past 12 months. It's almost as if it's a convenient way for people to complain about lockdown restrictions....

yeah...mental health is such a thing these days. Everyone's talking about it.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

1 minute ago, Quark said:

Not pointed at you at all, but it's really quite amazing to see the number of people who seem to have shifted from "snowflakes need to man up" to "people's mental health, oh won't somebody think of the children" over the past 12 months. It's almost as if it's a convenient way for people to complain about lockdown restrictions....

You’re right, but I’d probably have been one of those people calling people snowflakes a year ago, yet despite being a pretty mentally strong person, living on my own through all this I’ve had some tough moments every now and then. Therefore I can imagine it might be pretty tough for people who perhaps had issues with mental  health even before the pandemic.

[squirrelarmy]

32 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

A lot of Europe is so bloody hot over the summer I really don't know why anyone bothers.

I know what you mean. Sunshine every day combined with cheap beer is an absolute pain in the arse. 

[Crazyfool01]

How many people work in the takeaway industry under cramped conditions ? I’d just tried google searching but couldn’t find anything ... I’d suggest it’s not an insignificant number .... bring everyone’s family’s into the equation and you have plenty enough to tip that balance 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Closing manufacturing and construction would be a lot more impactful than closing takeaways. 

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

How many people work in the takeaway industry under cramped conditions ? I’d just tried google searching but couldn’t find anything ... I’d suggest it’s not an insignificant number .... bring everyone’s family’s into the equation and you have plenty enough to tip that balance 

In addition to this, a lot of the takeaways in my area at least are run by the groups that are at the highest risk due to multiple generations living together. The area of Yorkshire that has the highest rate of infection is home to some of the best curry houses in the area. 

[Crazyfool01]

Oh and please don’t forget the mental health of those that are essential workers ... and having to work ... that mental health argument that you should have a takeaway is curious to me ...

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

How many people work in the takeaway industry under cramped conditions ? I’d just tried google searching but couldn’t find anything ... I’d suggest it’s not an insignificant number .... bring everyone’s family’s into the equation and you have plenty enough to tip that balance 

Rightly or wrongly, these rules are never designed with the safety of particular individuals in mind. For example, vulnerable teachers and TA’s were basically used collateral damage when the schools were open, because having the schools open was seen as more important than their individual safety. Rules are designed to reduce wider transmission, not to stop particular people getting infected.  

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, crazyfool1 said:

Oh and please don’t forget the mental health of those that are essential workers ... and having to work ... that mental health argument that you should have a takeaway is curious to me ...

Never before would I have thought this but having that ability to have that one thing that’s “enjoyable” as a date night every couple of weeks is really helpful for mental health. 

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Closing manufacturing and construction would be a lot more impactful than closing takeaways. 

depends...

[Quark]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...mental health is such a thing these days. Everyone's talking about it.

Maybe didn't come across right.  Pointing at areas of the press and opinion pieces in your traditional shiterags where the concept of mental health has generally been dismissed.

2 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

You’re right, but I’d probably have been one of those people calling people snowflakes a year ago, yet despite being a pretty mentally strong person, living on my own through all this I’ve had some tough moments every now and then. Therefore I can imagine it might be pretty tough for people who perhaps had issues with mental  health even before the pandemic.

Sorry to hear you've had a tough time bud.  There's absolutely going to be people who've experienced the flip side and have their views changed as a result, and utmost sympathy with that. Whatever you think of mental health in the past, when it hits you it's an absolute fucker and no-one should be dismissed because of previously held views on it.

I'm just incredibly cynical of certain areas as explained above. 

[steviewevie]

How did we cope before takeaways?

[Quark]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Oh and please don’t forget the mental health of those that are essential workers ... and having to work ... that mental health argument that you should have a takeaway is curious to me ...

There's no single right or wrong answer sadly.  What impacts or saves one person is chump change to another.

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Oh and please don’t forget the mental health of those that are essential workers ... and having to work ... that mental health argument that you should have a takeaway is curious to me ...

What about if the essential workers wanted a takeaway after a days long hard shift, and couldn’t be bothered cooking? 

(just playing Devils advocate here, but guess it is a valid point). 

[DeanoL]

16 minutes ago, st dan said:

Totally agree with this - a lot of people are finding some comfort in the long, dark and cold days by being able to have a takeaway a couple of times a week. To keep taking away even small luxuries, mental health is going to be eroded even further.
If there is substantial evidence of widespread transmission from takeaways being open, then fair enough they should be closed. But if there isn’t, then keeping them open is the best solution I feel, also for the business owners which allows them to keep ticking over in these tough times. 

The problem is, there's no substantial evidence of widespread transmission in anything that's still open. We closed schools, that was the last place we had evidence of widespread transmission. We're at the point now where it's either accepting that we can't get numbers down lower, or start closing things where there are small numbers of transmissions.

[stephos83]

1 minute ago, DeanoL said:

The problem is, there's no substantial evidence of widespread transmission in anything that's still open. We closed schools, that was the last place we had evidence of widespread transmission. We're at the point now where it's either accepting that we can't get numbers down lower, or start closing things where there are small numbers of transmissions.

I missed where this discussion started (was on a long work phone call), but could we not just do what Scotland is doing from tomorrow (so keeping them open, but requiring service to be from the door/window/hatch)?

The measures announced in Scotland would seem largely sensible next steps (plus they have nurseries closed up there) to me.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

What about if the essential workers wanted a takeaway after a days long hard shift, and couldn’t be bothered cooking? 

(just playing Devils advocate here, but guess it is a valid point). 

Yep fair  ... it’s tough but I worry that those impacted in the early phases were the lowly paid and often the ethnic communities that live or work in cramped conditions and those people now deliver  us food so we can remain safe ... I’ve not ordered a single takeaway throughout this pandemic ( yet ) 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

8 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

How did we cope before takeaways?

We went out to eat 

[Joshuwarr]

Now there's talk that over 50s are likely to be vaccinated by the end of March here is a little reminder of what that would mean for deaths: 

https://twitter.com/NewStatesman/status/1336683275209863168

[Quark]

2 hours ago, WestCountryGirl said:

Yeah, my Mum's looking to book a house for us some time in the summer. As it's my 30th this year and Mum's 60th the plan was for the family to go to Italy (Mum & Dad, me and my partner, brother & sister-in-law and baby) but we felt that was no longer a likely prospect, so have turned out attention to somewhere closer to home. 

 

2 hours ago, Ozanne said:

That’s a great idea! There so many amazing places to go to for a long weekend away in this country. The cotswolds is a nice place for a long weekend. 

 

2 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I reckon holidays in the UK are much more likely, as we went on a little one in October even, but I'm only considering things that are super easy to cancel. I have something pencilled in for May with friends that I'm fully expecting not to happen but it's good to have something to aim for! 

 

1 hour ago, Homer said:

In classic 2020 fashion, common sense prevailed and we ended up in Tenby instead (obvs).

Obligatory plug for Dome House in the Lake District chez @fatyeti24 and @H.M.V.  It's proper lovely. As are they. And they keep a decent bar as well 🙂