When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

What evidence?

More kids in school this lockdown. The increased activity on public transport and car usage.  Anecdotal evidence of larger groups in Parks e.t.c.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

More kids in school this lockdown. The increased activity on public transport and car usage.  Anecdotal evidence of larger groups in Parks e.t.c.

That’s not evidence of people not following lockdown rules anymore like you said, that’s people carrying on within the current restrictions. I see no large groups when I’m out. Is there any tangible evidence that people aren’t following the rules anymore like you suggest they aren’t?

[efcfanwirral]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/shock-therapy-boris-johnsons-critics-say-cabinet-needs-massive-jolt-57ftdzd77

"Privately, these advisers are telling Johnson he cannot just vaccinate the most vulnerable and then lift restrictions. “They are saying that younger and lower-risk people shouldn’t leave home until they have been vaccinated,” said one official — a process that will take until at least the autumn."

 

What we suspected already but that's a whole year and many livelihoods gone...

 

[gizmoman]

5 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Ah now...you’re reaching dude! I’ve had PUVA for psoriasis, topical treatment wasn’t what he was suggesting and you know it! 😁 We use radiotherapy for cancer too, but he wasn’t suggesting we try that either (though to be fair, standard cytotoxic chemotherapy isn’t much better than some of the things he suggested). Photodynamic therapy has come a long way, though it suffered from charlatans promising the earth with it when it was first developed. Still has potential (and indeed is being used...the key thing is the use of photosensitizers to guide where the cellular/viral/bacterial destruction takes place). It’s possible he misunderstood some proper science, but more likely he heard about some of the crackpot ideas that have been peddled about ingesting bleach (and maybe picked up the UV idea from the fact that it sterilises surfaces in the lab, but the wavelengths of UV we use for that would alter your DNA).

But he wasn't suggesting ANY treatment, he's not a doctor, he was reacting to reports that UV and bleach kill covid and thinking aloud (not very well), why the scientists had made a point of mentioning UV and bleach i don't know, it was hardly unexpected that they would kill it!

My point is your statement "but at no point has anyone ever thought, hey, why don’t we use this stuff on ourselves!" is factually wrong on both counts, UV and bleach are (or have been) both used directly on humans. Strangely enough it's not the craziest thing trump has ever said!

[Chapple12345]

Just seen this thread, it really does seem a lot of countries dropped their guard over the quieter summer months and werent prepared for the winter much like us 

[Toilet Duck]

4 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

But he wasn't suggesting ANY treatment, he's not a doctor, he was reacting to reports that UV and bleach kill covid and thinking aloud (not very well), why the scientists had made a point of mentioning UV and bleach i don't know, it was hardly unexpected that they would kill it!

My point is your statement "but at no point has anyone ever thought, hey, why don’t we use this stuff on ourselves!" is factually wrong on both counts, UV and bleach are (or have been) both used directly on humans. Strangely enough it's not the craziest thing trump has ever said!

Fair enough, I didn’t really make that statement very accurately. I was more talking about when we are in the lab and use wavelengths of UV that are cytotoxic and concentrations of bleach that are highly toxic too. What I really meant was what he was suggesting, ie, why don’t we ingest this stuff! 

[Tranquility of Solitude]

1 hour ago, squirrelarmy said:

Are you saying we should drink bleach?

I’ve got a bottle next to me ready to down

True story.... my Dad drank some bleach when he was a toddler.
I don’t think I’ve caught Covid, so I might have a genetically inherited immunity. 

[zahidf]

20 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/shock-therapy-boris-johnsons-critics-say-cabinet-needs-massive-jolt-57ftdzd77

"Privately, these advisers are telling Johnson he cannot just vaccinate the most vulnerable and then lift restrictions. “They are saying that younger and lower-risk people shouldn’t leave home until they have been vaccinated,” said one official — a process that will take until at least the autumn."

 

What we suspected already but that's a whole year and many livelihoods gone...

 

Do they get a choice in the matter? That's a massive change from what's been said so far. 

I dont believe the tory govt will go for that

 

To put it on starker terms, once the vulnerable people are vaccinated, ill be out living my life. And I won't be the only one. I'm willing to take my chances and I'm not staying locked in waiting for a vaccine.

Edited January 10, 2021 by zahidf

[zahidf]

21 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That’s not evidence of people not following lockdown rules anymore like you said, that’s people carrying on within the current restrictions. I see no large groups when I’m out. Is there any tangible evidence that people aren’t following the rules anymore like you suggest they aren’t?

Whitty seems convinced in the Times that people aren't following it....

Also there's been a MASSIVE increase in school kids attendance. Awful lot of key worker jobs being added....

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Whitty seems convinced in the Times that people aren't following it....

Also there's been a MASSIVE increase in school kids attendance. Awful lot of key worker jobs being added....

People are out more in this lockdown because the restrictions allow that and the messaging from government hasn’t been as strong as back in March. More people are using the measures given to them in these rules. If the government allow people to meet up one on one for a walk then people will which wouldn’t be people breaking lockdown rules. The government need to sure how their communication for a start.

The recent ONS survey shows more than 90% still sticking too social distancing rules so I would say in the main people are following the rules, it’s the rules and the new variant which aren’t working (yet because they might it’s still early days).

[hodgey123]

11 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Do they get a choice in the matter? That's a massive change from what's been said so far. 

I dont believe the tory govt will go for that

 

To put it on starker terms, once the vulnerable people are vaccinated, ill be out living my life. And I won't be the only one. I'm willing to take my chances and I'm not staying locked in waiting for a vaccine.

The article didn’t really seem to elaborate on why the scientific advisors have warned that younger and non-vulnerable people would have to stay at home until they are vaccinated. Presumably this is on the basis that the vaccine is not sterilising and does not reduce transmission? Either way, I think your view would definitely be shared by millions of young people once the threat of death of the more vulnerable/older population has hopefully been eliminated. 

[zahidf]

Apparently, if you can make it to Dubai, have 3 weeks to spare and have a spare 750 quid, you can get the two dose Pfizer vaccine in one of their private medical clinics...

[Toilet Duck]

34 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

Just seen this thread, it really does seem a lot of countries dropped their guard over the quieter summer months and werent prepared for the winter much like us 

What’s even worse is that we actually were prepared. We handled the second wave very well, restrictions came in early, the stepping up approach was tried for a week, didn’t stall it, so some of the tightest restrictions in Europe were brought in. Ended up with the lowest caseload in the EU for quite a while. The third wave on the other hand has caught everyone by surprise. 3 weeks basically from lowest in Europe to close to highest. Maybe we got cocky or maybe we all just lost the run of ourselves in the run up to Christmas...but, we’ll be shut down for the next 6-8 weeks at least to get back where we were (there’s some encouraging signs that shutting up shop before the new year is having an impact, % positive cases are dropping and numbers of contacts are a good bit lower again. Can’t draw conclusions from a couple of days data, but it’s pointing in the right direction...big peak to climb down from this time though). 

[efcfanwirral]

16 minutes ago, hodgey123 said:

The article didn’t really seem to elaborate on why the scientific advisors have warned that younger and non-vulnerable people would have to stay at home until they are vaccinated. Presumably this is on the basis that the vaccine is not sterilising and does not reduce transmission? Either way, I think your view would definitely be shared by millions of young people once the threat of death of the more vulnerable/older population has hopefully been eliminated. 

I suppose there is an alternative - get the "herd immunity" (not actually) by opening everything and having us all catch it/be exposed to it over the summer months when our immune systems are better. Loads will be asymptomatic and that won't matter then and it could help build up a tolerance. And roll out some vaccines at the same time for those who want that to get back out there. 

Otherwise I could see a scenario where, if we keep things quite tight over the summer then either let it go or people just stop complying over winter, we could still see overwhelmed hospitals just by sheer numbers. 

Argument of mutations isn't really an issue if the "vaccine" doesn't actually stop spread anyway - it'll spread whatever happens in that case.

[SheffJeff]

3 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

What’s even worse is that we actually were prepared. We handled the second wave very well, restrictions came in early, the stepping up approach was tried for a week, didn’t stall it, so some of the tightest restrictions in Europe were brought in. Ended up with the lowest caseload in the EU for quite a while. The third wave on the other hand has caught everyone by surprise. 3 weeks basically from lowest in Europe to close to highest. Maybe we got cocky or maybe we all just lost the run of ourselves in the run up to Christmas...but, we’ll be shut down for the next 6-8 weeks at least to get back where we were (there’s some encouraging signs that shutting up shop before the new year is having an impact, % positive cases are dropping and numbers of contacts are a good bit lower again. Can’t draw conclusions from a couple of days data, but it’s pointing in the right direction...big peak to climb down from this time though). 

Even thinking of a third wave fucking terrifies me!

[steviewevie]

 

[The other Bellboy]

Just read about the first case of the South African mutation being found here and with that report there was a comment that that one has mutated a lot and that there is a lot more doubt about the existing vacinnes being affective. Not good news.

 

[The Dawg]

21 hours ago, sisco said:

I’ve just found out people can go fishing!! Absolutely ridiculous.

I am angler (but not in this weather!) and don't see what the problem is? Sat on your own socially distant is what it's all about. I am in a number of clubs and some of the waters I fish are so relaxing/stunning that I don't mind if I don't catch.

For me, it's about getting out in amongst nature and just generally getting away from the rat race and shit news.

[El Matador]

8 hours ago, zahidf said:

Do they get a choice in the matter? That's a massive change from what's been said so far. 

I dont believe the tory govt will go for that

 

To put it on starker terms, once the vulnerable people are vaccinated, ill be out living my life. And I won't be the only one. I'm willing to take my chances and I'm not staying locked in waiting for a vaccine.

Its the role of the government to weigh up the scientific advice against all the other issues. If hospitalisations and deaths are back down towards summer levels with the vaccine rollout going to plan, there's no way that the government will be keeping these restrictions in place, no matter what the scientific advice is. 

[JoeyT]

I find it odd that some people find it surprising that some parts of the general public aren’t following the rules / guidance to the letter anymore.

Lockdown fatigue was warned of months ago. It shouldn’t come as a surprise.

As much as we had posters on here warn a January lockdown was inevitable we also had folk saying similar about the public getting tired of enforced lockdowns.

Throw in the vaccine and the progress we will make with that over the next few weeks you’ve got compliance reducing further as people look for the light which is a way out of this.

 

[Punksnotdead]

Starmer is on Marr this morning. Cue hours of tedious "Starmer is a c**t" / "No he's not" arguments on here!

[gordong]

9 hours ago, efcfanwirral said:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/shock-therapy-boris-johnsons-critics-say-cabinet-needs-massive-jolt-57ftdzd77

"Privately, these advisers are telling Johnson he cannot just vaccinate the most vulnerable and then lift restrictions. “They are saying that younger and lower-risk people shouldn’t leave home until they have been vaccinated,” said one official — a process that will take until at least the autumn."

 

What we suspected already but that's a whole year and many livelihoods gone...

 

This approach would be political suicide. As soon as the vulnerable have been vaccinated, I can see compliance to any further restrictions dropping through the floor. 

[Mellotr0n]

Hancock confirms UK now vaccinating 200,000 a day. Given we have a huge amount of expansion still due, you’d hope this could eventually hit 300/400,000 a day or so. 

From tomorrow onwards we’ll see if this is bearing out in the figures. 

Over a third of over-80s have now received first jab. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Loads of people aren’t following the rules ‘behind the scenes’. For example, I know somebody who broke up with their boyfriend a couple of months back and they’ve been here there and everywhere if you get my drift.

I mean, what do you think this article suggests is happening:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/newsbeat-53736087

[MrBarry465]

37 minutes ago, El Matador said:

Its the role of the government to weigh up the scientific advice against all the other issues. If hospitalisations and deaths are back down towards summer levels with the vaccine rollout going to plan, there's no way that the government will be keeping these restrictions in place, no matter what the scientific advice is. 

There will still be restrictions in place while the vaccine is being rolled out.

It will be a gradual lowering of restrictions as it continues.