When will this shit end?

[parsonjack]

1 minute ago, xxialac said:

I know I'm guilty of that. But absent of so much data, it still serves as a proxy of the severity of things.

Apologies.....I meant he's incorrect not yourself.  You're quite right though....however I spin the figures it's all a total tragedy.

[steviewevie]

 

[xxialac]

6 minutes ago, kalifire said:

This is true. Australia is so vast, cities are hours on the plane apart.

True but more than 60% of the population lives in a relatively small corridor in the South East coast from Brisbane down to Melbourne and half the population lives in those two cities or Sydney.

 

[zahidf]

 

[parsonjack]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

 

Holy shit....is there really no God?

[xxialac]

Just now, zahidf said:

 

This time he's backed completely the wrong horse.

The public are largely in favour of restrictions and this will only have gone up since he launched in November (when it was less clearcut that lockdowns were needed).

I look forward to him failing. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

 

HA! I win again. I really am the king of this thread.

[found home in 2009]

12 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Well yes that was also a big mistake, he should’ve made it clear to the nation months before we wouldn’t be allowed to mix households at Christmas. But Johnson couldn’t possibly give out that message and show leadership.

For some reason this has reminded me of an interview with Ken Clark on Radio 4 when Boris was about to become PM. He was asked what he thought about Boris being his leader and replied "Whether he wins or not, he'll never lead me. Boris' idea of leadership is seeing which way the crowd is going, then running in front of it."



 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

5 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

Not correct.  He's again quoting deaths by date registered. There are 27 days with higher death figures between 31st March and 26th April than the highest daily deaths by date of death since then at 600 on 28th December....although that figure is likely to rise as further deaths on that day are registered.

In the UK you have 5 days to register a death plus another week or so in some circumstance I think it is. 

In France you have to register a death within 24 hours.

There is no purpose to this post other than its soemthing I've learnt today while waiting to piss in a pot which actually ended rather badly.

[xxialac]

Australia being decisive bad-asses on this thread.

 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, squirrelarmy said:

The figures we’re seeing now are from pre xmas mixing. The xmas and NYE numbers will start to show soon. We won’t see the effect of lockdown for a couple of weeks yet. 

We should see the effect of extending tier 4 soon though.

[MEGABOWL]

48 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

We have fucked up very badly but we’re two very different islands. 
 

UK is a major international hub, Australia is far more isolated. 
 

The climates are vastly different as well as massively different population densities. 
 

It doesn’t mean the government isn’t to blame though for completely going about this the wrong way but it’s certainly not fair to compare us to Australia. 

Agree with this. I keep seeing these direct Country to Country comparisons and they don’t work. There are a myriad of reasons why what works in e.g.Australia or Japan wouldn’t necessarily work in the U.K. Geography, Climate, Population Density, Demographics, Economic factors, trust of Government, trust of Technology, integration with other Countries, Transport etc. 

That isn’t to say things couldn’t have been a lot better or that the Government hasn’t been a total disaster but these simplistic comparisons are useless.

[incident]

4 minutes ago, xxialac said:

True but more than 60% of the population lives in a relatively small corridor in the South East coast from Brisbane down to Melbourne and half the population lives in those two cities or Sydney.

That "relatively small corridor" is still much longer than any journey possible within the whole of Great Britain (unless you go an unnecessarily circuitous route of course).

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, MEGABOWL said:

Agree with this. I keep seeing these direct Country to Country comparisons and they don’t work. There are a myriad of reasons why what works in e.g.Australia or Japan wouldn’t necessarily work in the U.K. Geography, Climate, Population Density, Demographics, Economic factors, trust of Government, trust of Technology, integration with other Countries, Transport etc. 

That isn’t to say things couldn’t have been a lot better or that the Government hasn’t been a total disaster but these simplistic comparisons are useless.

I guess we could just compare to everyone else.....oh, we're worst.

[jannybruck]

The new Farage party seems like a misfire on the face of it (by the time they stand we'll be back in looser Tiers and people will be a bit happier so 'fighting against lockdown' becomes redundant, and restrictions are actually not hugely unpopular with the public given the polling) but that's not the point of this – he'll inevitably raise tens of thousands through various crowdfunders as well as increasing his media profile again.

He's a grifter, through and through, and that's all this is: the latest thing he can jump on to keep in the national discourse and get some money in from supporters.

Edited January 6, 2021 by jannybruck

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

1 minute ago, MEGABOWL said:

Agree with this. I keep seeing these direct Country to Country comparisons and they don’t work. There are a myriad of reasons why what works in e.g.Australia or Japan wouldn’t necessarily work in the U.K. Geography, Climate, Population Density, Demographics, Economic factors, trust of Government, trust of Technology, integration with other Countries, Transport etc. 

That isn’t to say things couldn’t have been a lot better or that the Government hasn’t been a total disaster but these simplistic comparisons are useless.

Add into that the subtle differences in data definitions, recording methods and accuracy most of the time it's not even comparing apples with pears let alone apples with apples 

[xxialac]

Just now, MEGABOWL said:

Agree with this. I keep seeing these direct Country to Country comparisons and they don’t work. There are a myriad of reasons why what works in e.g.Australia or Japan wouldn’t necessarily work in the U.K. Geography, Climate, Population Density, Demographics, Economic factors, trust of Government, trust of Technology, integration with other Countries, Transport etc. 

That isn’t to say things couldn’t have been a lot better or that the Government hasn’t been a total disaster but these simplistic comparisons are useless.

Irrespective of the underlying differences between the two countries what is undeniable is that the UK is not just slightly worse, rather it will end up with over 10,000% more deaths than Australia. That is a vast chasm.

So Australia must have handled their own set of circumstances better than the UK, even if the circumstances were different.

[mikegday]

16 minutes ago, incident said:

That's true in itself, but it does ignore certain aspects - specifically that it means cities tend to be a bit more spread out and so there's less necessity for people to travel between them on a daily basis.

For example in the UK it's perfectly plausible that someone lives in Milton Keynes and works in London, while their partner or flat mate works in Birmingham. Likewise some poor sod could live in Stoke and work in any of Birmingham, Manchester, or Liverpool. I don't think that applies with Australia to anywhere near the same degree - they can almost treat the Melbourne area as a different country to the Sydney area.

I get this - but they’ve had 909 in total, across all of their cities!! Using your example just Stoke alone has had half of that figure. Aus cities are sparse - but the suggestion that population density puts an end to comparison I don’t think is correct. If you’re on a bus commuting in Brisbane or a tram in Melbourne you may as well be anywhere and with the same public health measures the virus can spread similarly there as here in the U.K. The difference once it’s in a region is those public health measures that are put in to combat it - they are what have made such a difference between us and Australia.

[MEGABOWL]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I guess we could just compare to everyone else.....oh, we're worst.

Depends how you measure it. If you do Deaths per Capita were only in the top 10.

 

Out of 152

[xxialac]

4 minutes ago, incident said:

That "relatively small corridor" is still much longer than any journey possible within the whole of Great Britain (unless you go an unnecessarily circuitous route of course).

Oh that's definitely also true. Just saying it's really a far smaller country than it looks, especially if you strip out Perth (but still massive!)

[MEGABOWL]

Just now, xxialac said:

Irrespective of the underlying differences between the two countries what is undeniable is that the UK is not just slightly worse, rather it will end up with over 10,000% more deaths than Australia. That is a vast chasm.

So Australia must have handled their own set of circumstances better than the UK, even if the circumstances were different.

That last bit I agree with and as I say, I’m not in any way saying we’ve done well. Just that these direct comparisons of stats are almost useless, as is the assumption that a similar approach would yield the same results. Island or not we’re a hugely interconnected nation, as the Brexiteers are about to find out.

 

[Crazyfool01]

I remember when I flew to NZ thinking I was nearly there when I hit Australia ......... It went on for bloody hours 😞 

[MEGABOWL]

4 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Add into that the subtle differences in data definitions, recording methods and accuracy most of the time it's not even comparing apples with pears let alone apples with apples 

Also spot on.

I don’t think these comparisons really help anyone. Anyone torturing themselves by thinking that we could have had numbers as low as Australia or NZ, save yourself the trouble. It isn’t true. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

8 minutes ago, MEGABOWL said:

Also spot on.

I don’t think these comparisons really help anyone. Anyone torturing themselves by thinking that we could have had numbers as low as Australia or NZ, save yourself the trouble. It isn’t true. 

We don't even know if we were starting from the same starting point purely in terms of the virus. 

It could have been a lot more prevalent in Europe before we even knew it was here compared to say Australia. We just don't know nor will we ever know. 

Again this isn't letting the government off they have undoubtedly got things wrong - it's just stepping back and looking analytically.

Edited January 6, 2021 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[Ozanne]

So if anything we had more time to prepare than the Australians did.