When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

Just now, Simsy said:

Or he wants schools to shut and knows the best way to get Boris to close them is to tell him to keep them open.

Good point, it could be that too.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

How do you make a school, or anywhere for that matter safe? Short if vaccinate all the teachers before opening schools I just don't see what can be done. What do teacher feel needs to be done? 

id imagine that they are hoping to be vaccinated soon ? and  dont forget its not just the safety of teachers ... its by extension everyone that the children come into contact with elsewhere 

Edited January 3, 2021 by crazyfool1

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

How do you make a school, or anywhere for that matter safe? Short if vaccinate all the teachers before opening schools I just don't see what can be done. What do teacher feel needs to be done? 

I guess what they maybe could do is stagger schools so only half the pupils in the building at any one time..? Something like that? Easy for me to say on a forum, probably nightmare to actually do.

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Or he wants schools to shut and knows the best way to get Boris to close them is to tell him to keep them open.

a double bluff! He's so clever.

[steviewevie]

Now the Swedish model has failed, it's time to ask who was pushing it

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/03/swedish-model-failed-covid-19

[efcfanwirral]

4 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

How do you make a school, or anywhere for that matter safe? Short if vaccinate all the teachers before opening schools I just don't see what can be done. What do teacher feel needs to be done? 

If they cared about kids educations as much as they claim they do this is exactly what they should be doing. In parallel with vaccinating the vulnerable 

If there was anywhere near as much vaccine stock on the way as they claim they could do that. Yes it means the rest of us are locked down for slightly longer(or maybe not - the teachers would be part of what is needed to do that anyway surely?)  but in their haste to "lift restrictions" they are again making the wrong decisions

[funkychick2007]

11 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

And also just adding on behalf of teachers - schools have never "closed". Teachers have never stopped teaching, never stopped setting lessons, never stopped marking work and never stopped their pastoral responsibilities to their students. Teachers deserve an overwhelming amount of praise for how they have handled the pandemic since March and any failings or lasting inequalities that come out of this period are squarely at the feet of the Government.

Could not have said it better myself!! 

[Matt42]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

Now the Swedish model has failed, it's time to ask who was pushing it

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/03/swedish-model-failed-covid-19

You will still hear people going on about Sweden without even looking at the numbers.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

5 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

id imagine that they are hoping to be vaccinated soon ? and  dont forget its not just the safety of teachers ... its by extension everyone that the children come into contact with elsewhere 

That then means someone clinically more at risk will miss out though. 

The children's exposure to others should be limited - children shouldn't be infecting granny because they shouldn't be seeing granny.

[Brownie30]

5 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

How do you make a school, or anywhere for that matter safe? Short if vaccinate all the teachers before opening schools I just don't see what can be done. What do teacher feel needs to be done? 

I don't have the answers to this, but agree with Crazy Fool that they should be in line for vaccines. I believe teachers over 50 have been bumped up to Phase 1 so that is at least some good news. 

The overriding point though is the Government have consistently claimed that schools ARE safe, that they have provided resources and instructions in order to make schools safe and that everyone should send their children to school without fear. Boris said yesterday that schools are safe but it is household mixing which isn't... if anyone can tell me how any student or teacher can go to school and not mix with any households I will be amazed. It is abjectly untrue that the Government have provided anything more than the absolute bare minimum to schools - inkeeping with their general communication policy with the wider country in truth. From my engagements with many teachers all I can note is they see they are being hung out to dry by a Govt who I assume are setting them up as future scapegoats if in 3-4 weeks time the infection rates rise again. 

[xxialac]

2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

You will still hear people going on about Sweden without even looking at the numbers.

Farage's new party is an anti-lockdown party based upon it:

"There is another way, a credible alternative strategy—promoted by some of the world’s finest epidemiologists—called the Great Barrington Declaration. It is effectively being practised to a large degree in Sweden, with considerable success."

Well, that's embarrassing

 

[Ozanne]

If Johnson admitted schools weren't safe then he would essentially be admitting him and his government have failed. He won't do that so he'll go on insisting they are fine.

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

That then means someone clinically more at risk will miss out though. 

The children's exposure to others should be limited - children shouldn't be infecting granny because they shouldn't be seeing granny.

I quite honestly know the answer .... you are right though .... I was just stating what they might want ? its a moral minefield 

 

[Brownie30]

9 minutes ago, funkychick2007 said:

Could not have said it better myself!! 

Thank you @funkychick2007! I have many family and friends working in education and I have never seen them work as hard or show as much care and compassion for their students of any age as they have in the past 10 months. I think they deserve more. 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

If Johnson admitted schools weren't safe then he would essentially be admitting him and his government have failed. He won't do that so he'll go on insisting they are fine.

what is one more u turn to add to the collection though ?!!

[squirrelarmy]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

If Johnson admitted schools weren't safe then he would essentially be admitting him and his government have failed. He won't do that so he'll go on insisting they are fine.

They have failed many times already. 
 

Actually having the balls to be proactive rather than reactive would actually improve his standing with the general public. 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Brownie30 said:

Thank you @funkychick2007! I have many family and friends working in education and I have never seen them work as hard or show as much care and compassion for their students of any age as they have in the past 10 months. I think they deserve more. 

so bloody hard , Most of us go into work with some idea what we might be  doing on a daily basis , the flexibility of teachers and that profession is absolutely incredible ....

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

10 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

I don't have the answers to this, but agree with Crazy Fool that they should be in line for vaccines. I believe teachers over 50 have been bumped up to Phase 1 so that is at least some good news. 

The overriding point though is the Government have consistently claimed that schools ARE safe, that they have provided resources and instructions in order to make schools safe and that everyone should send their children to school without fear. Boris said yesterday that schools are safe but it is household mixing which isn't... if anyone can tell me how any student or teacher can go to school and not mix with any households I will be amazed. It is abjectly untrue that the Government have provided anything more than the absolute bare minimum to schools - inkeeping with their general communication policy with the wider country in truth. From my engagements with many teachers all I can note is they see they are being hung out to dry by a Govt who I assume are setting them up as future scapegoats if in 3-4 weeks time the infection rates rise again. 

Not arguing or expect you to have the answer it just doesn't sit easy with me using terms like safe - because ultimately you aren't 'safe' from Covid. 

 

[Brownie30]

Just now, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Not arguing or expect you to have the answer it just doesn't sit easy with me using terms like safe - because ultimately you aren't 'safe' from Covid. 

 

Sure and I agree with that - but it's the Government who are using those terms to justify their continually flawed policies. 

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Not arguing or expect you to have the answer it just doesn't sit easy with me using terms like safe - because ultimately you aren't 'safe' from Covid. 

 

yeah, but you can make it as safe as possible....from what I've heard from my daughter at her high school it isn't really safe at all.

[steviewevie]

[stuartbert two hats]

38 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

I would rather schools stay open as long as possible. 

If schools close despite it making mine and my partners life a total nightmare we can make it work - we did last school year despite at the time both being key workers we felt he didn't need to go to school and the space would be better used by other parents who couldn't manage the situation. My concern with it is a couple of hours work a day which is what it was taking to get through the work isn't the same as a full day at school. 

The boy has regressed a little in that time especially his maths which is his weakest subject at school, it's hard for us to get him into a routine of mental arithmetic tests every day when we have to work our own jobs too - not all children have parents in such fortunate positions. Equally be really misses the other things they do at school which we can't really do at home, science art, etc.. etc.. that's before you factor in seeing his friends, his teachers etc.. etc.. at least with our lad he doesn't live near school and his school friends anyway so he isn't asking if he can go to his little mates house to play at the moment. 

Its easy to suggest that online learning is the answer - it isn't that easy. Our lad does 1 hour a week Spainish on Skype and has done for a few years now, this is something he enjoys and wants to do but sometimes he struggles with that as in his head he is at home not at school. 

I really worry for the less fortunate children what another school closure. I'm a little worried for all the things my own lad misses out on as a result of this - he already says things like we are having to catch up on year 4 work and do year 5 work so we aren't doing as much Art or PE etc.. 

Thats not to say the teachers shouldnt have a right to feel say at school but to have some sort of open ended school closure feels like a step too far for me there needs to be some sort it becomes safe at X point. 

That said he has literally just said he wants to be a stripper when he grows up so maybe my worries are missplaced.

I can't disagree with any of that - apart from the conclusion. For all of excellent points made, the strain on the health service at the moment is extreme, we just cannot afford the extra contribution to community spread cause by schools. 

They call these year groups "bubbles". They're not bubbles, they're nodes in a network. The best way to break a network is to sever the nodes.  We need to close the schools.

We're in a race now with vaccinations against infections and we just can't give an inch, the virus is winning.

And as has been raised, each individual school will have to close anyway soon, as outbreaks pop up in most schools in the country.

[Lycra]

7 minutes ago, Brownie30 said:

I don't have the answers to this, but agree with Crazy Fool that they should be in line for vaccines. I believe teachers over 50 have been bumped up to Phase 1 so that is at least some good news. 

The overriding point though is the Government have consistently claimed that schools ARE safe, that they have provided resources and instructions in order to make schools safe and that everyone should send their children to school without fear. Boris said yesterday that schools are safe but it is household mixing which isn't... if anyone can tell me how any student or teacher can go to school and not mix with any households I will be amazed. It is abjectly untrue that the Government have provided anything more than the absolute bare minimum to schools - inkeeping with their general communication policy with the wider country in truth. From my engagements with many teachers all I can note is they see they are being hung out to dry by a Govt who I assume are setting them up as future scapegoats if in 3-4 weeks time the infection rates rise again. 

The main issue is letting children, adolescents & students, who are proven vectors for transmission, mix to a high degree. They're bringing the virus back to the household. Shutting schools is what government must do to get the situation under any degree of control. Vaccination cannot be rolled out fast enough to achieve this aim.

[Ozanne]

 

 

 

[Toilet Duck]

3 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I can't disagree with any of that - apart from the conclusion. For all of excellent points made, the strain on the health service at the moment is extreme, we just cannot afford the extra contribution to community spread cause by schools. 

They call these year groups "bubbles". They're not bubbles, they're nodes in a network. The best way to break a network is to sever the nodes.  We need to close the schools.

We're in a race now with vaccinations against infections and we just can't give an inch, the virus is winning.

And as has been raised, each individual school will have to close anyway soon, as outbreaks pop up in most schools in the country.

Yep...I’ve been in favour of keeping schools open up to now as the data supported it (cases in kids go down not up when the schools are open)...wasn’t in favour of opening for a few short weeks in June as we didn’t have the data and it wasn’t worth the risk, however, after that, they weren’t the major driver of infections...but (and it’s a big but), once you lose control of community transmission, all subtlety goes out the window and stopping mixing of any sort is the only way back. Add to that the uncertainty about the new strain and I think the sensible option is to keep them closed til cases are under control again.