When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

 

 

Yeah probably my feeling on this 

[mike46]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Hope it wasn’t 3 people with a bad sense of how big the social distance gaps need to be 🙂 

Nope, big queue all distanced. Only briefly passed by but seemed to be moving and more people joining all the time. 

 

2 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Hang around! Might be able to get any last minute available slots...

I’ll save it for people who need it much more than me - I’m a healthy 30 year old and have already had it, thankfully I can wait my turn until late next year

[philipsteak]

36 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Just had a FaceTime with my daughter in NZ. They are having a great time. It really gladdens me and Mrs c to see her and our grandkids so happy. It will be our turn soon. 

My Facebook feed is full of NZ mates at packed NYE gigs and festivals. Looks amazing

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Who said it’s being ignored? I’ve said they acted too slowly and then didn’t act hard enough as a result. of the government has followed the advice when it was advised to them then things wouldn’t have been as bad. As a result we have some of the highest death figures in the world and one of the heaviest recessions. We have the worst of both worlds. 

You say they didn't follow the advice of SAGE when it was given to them. Is that not ignoring the advice? 

You cannot ignore the Brexit cloud that was hanging over the economy when talking about the state of the economy that is something nobody else in the world has been contending with. 

You talk like it's all 0's and 1's and absolutes unfortunately the world isn't like that. You cannot eliminate risk you can manage it - that is what all the government's have been trying to all in their own unique settings with hindsight everyone would have done things differently.

[Ozanne]

11 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

And yet all the polling that I've seen has said that the majority of people are in favour of lockdowns; a majority supported a 2 week circuit breaker in October, a majority supported a lockdown over Christmas and in November You Gov published this

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/8vylxqh84u/England lockdown snap poll.pdf

I can't find anything published since the new variant came to light which I suspect would increase lockdown support.

This is the latest I could find. 

[Copperface]

If a decision now has been taken to separate the two AZ doses by up to 12 weeks, do we know what the strength of that first dose is?

ie Are they administering the half strength dose first or given the now longer separation, are they going full dollop on the first and second?

[MEGABOWL]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

Do you not think we can learn from some of how China responded ? We need to learn from this going forward and I would think totally dismissing a country with very large populous and there handling completely is not the way we should go ... 

China isn’t all that relevant to us. A lot of what they did relies on a level of control from above and submission from the people that we should never, ever be looking to emulate. We aren’t the same, thankfully.

In face the general country to country comparisons are difficult. SK relied on technological surveillance that would have met with a lot of resistance here. NZs forced quarantine likewise, along with other demographic and climate differences that make that complicated.
 

It doesn’t excuse the serial witless incompetence we’ve seen at Westminster but most Countries are struggling with this, especially Western Democracies. It’s no coincidence and something those that constantly clamour for more control and more clamouring down and enforcement are going to have to accept. Especially as, in the long run, that sense of independence and rejection of overbearing Government is A Good Thing.

Throw in growing fatigue, waning compliance, this new variant and the Virus as a whole basically being endemic and there needs to be a sense of realism about where we are. Don’t get your hopes up that stricter and stricter Lockdown will get us very far, that ship has sailed. The next couple of months are going to be grim waiting for Vaccines to take effect. Hold on tight.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

11 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

And yet all the polling that I've seen has said that the majority of people are in favour of lockdowns; a majority supported a 2 week circuit breaker in October, a majority supported a lockdown over Christmas and in November You Gov published this

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/8vylxqh84u/England lockdown snap poll.pdf

I can't find anything published since the new variant came to light which I suspect would increase lockdown support.

A poll is only representative of the people who answer the questions.

[Losing my hair]

1 minute ago, Copperface said:

If a decision now has been taken to separate the two AZ doses by up to 12 weeks, do we know what the strength of that first dose is?

ie Are they administering the half strength dose first or given the now longer separation, are they going full dollop on the first and second?

Full dollop x 2

Read it yesterday but can't find the reference, I'll look later if you like. 

[fraybentos1]

4 minutes ago, Copperface said:

If a decision now has been taken to separate the two AZ doses by up to 12 weeks, do we know what the strength of that first dose is?

ie Are they administering the half strength dose first or given the now longer separation, are they going full dollop on the first and second?

2 full. Not enough data for the half then full one they said.

[Losing my hair]

2 minutes ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

A poll is only representative of the people who answer the questions.

Polls are imperfect but do you have a better representation of people's opinion?

 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, Copperface said:

If a decision now has been taken to separate the two AZ doses by up to 12 weeks, do we know what the strength of that first dose is?

ie Are they administering the half strength dose first or given the now longer separation, are they going full dollop on the first and second?

Its full doses for both.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

With regards to the Economy we have a service lead economy, a pandemic would always hammer us. Strictness of lockdowns and prevalence of the virus is not directly correlated to the economy, it’s a myth that our response to lockdowns has had a greater negative impact on the economy than if we just went for the strictest lockdown possible. The furlough response and the business loans etc had been reasonable enough. Our economy was always going to come off badly it was just a question of how bad. 

[hillwalker]

Haven't dropped by here in ages. My view from ITU in a large central london hospital is that patient numbers have doubled in the past week and we're on a par with the last peak. It's different to march in that we know how to treat it better so more people are in HDU beds rather that ITU but are staying longer. About a third less invasively ventilated patients than at that time. If you walk round the rest of the hospital it does look quite because of the cancelled elective services and lack of visitors. It's amazing how many people just wonder the hospital at normal times. Also seems to be more staff catching it this time - not sure if that's related to the more virulent strain but anecdotally it seems that way. staff vaccine is rolling out quickly now so I hope that helps with that. Not great times, we're planning on it peaking in 2/3 weeks but who knows. Stay safe everyone

 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

10 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

Polls are imperfect but do you have a better representation of people's opinion?

 

You know full well I don't and that's not really the point - polls ask such small numbers of people and it's not a particularly varied subset of society that reply to them. 

Loads of folk support the lockdown, until it happens

Edited December 31, 2020 by RobertProsineckisLighter

[lemons]

1 minute ago, philipsteak said:

My Facebook feed is full of NZ mates at packed NYE gigs and festivals. Looks amazing

Visited there start of the year, flicking through channels my initial reaction to the Auckland fireworks and noise of people was "well NZ can piss off." 😄

Had a great catch up with an old friend last night. Simple bit of music, chat and a video call (which I normally avoid.) Feels like a reset to lift the spirits for the next stage of discipline needed for the weeks ahead.

[zahidf]

And the opposite to Wetherspoons 

 

[Copperface]

11 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

Full dollop x 2

Read it yesterday but can't find the reference, I'll look later if you like. 

 

9 minutes ago, fraybentos1 said:

2 full. Not enough data for the half then full one they said.

Thank you.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

You say they didn't follow the advice of SAGE when it was given to them. Is that not ignoring the advice? 

You cannot ignore the Brexit cloud that was hanging over the economy when talking about the state of the economy that is something nobody else in the world has been contending with. 

You talk like it's all 0's and 1's and absolutes unfortunately the world isn't like that. You cannot eliminate risk you can manage it - that is what all the government's have been trying to all in their own unique settings with hindsight everyone would have done things differently.

The government had plenty of the warnings in the build up with China and Italy yet still didn’t act. They had their own Operation Cygnus from a couple of years before which highlighted the many issues a respiratory virus would bring and still didn’t act. It’s not about hindsight if you can see a problem coming and don’t act quickly or effectively enough. 
 

Even if you want to give the government a pass over the first wave which I think is stunning then you can’t do that over the 2nd. In the summer PHE colleagues wrote to the PM to request the government use the summer lull to prepare for the winter. The government instead of doing that played around with breaking international law and the PM went on holiday again. Cases started to rise as predicted in the Autumn which caused SAGE and the LOTO to call for a short lockdown, the government still didn’t act. They brought in a tier system which didn’t work and was highlighted to them before the fact, they then brought in a lockdown weeks later on Halloween which wasn’t strong enough and longer enough. Calls for the government to cancel Christmas from medical experts went out and still the government didn’t act, instead bringing in a new tiering system which has seen nearly all regions be moved to the top tier. Which brings us to now with record level cases on a daily basis, hospitals filling up and Drs coming out saying the NHS is at breaking point calling for a national lockdown and still the government doesn’t act. They disappear for a week over Christmas only reappearing when a new vaccine is approved and the Brexit Trade Deal needs approving.

It’s not hindsight if people are pointing out what needs to be done and the government don’t act till it’s too late, that’s foresight. We’ve seen this too many times over the last 10 months and yes whilst plenty of other countries are wrestling with these dilemmas that doesn’t give the UK government a pass when these mistakes are entirely of their own making. We need the government when they get this advise from their advisors and experts warning them of a very really incoming issue to listen and act. 

[Ozanne]

12 minutes ago, Losing my hair said:

Polls are imperfect but do you have a better representation of people's opinion?

 

https://www.local.gov.uk/local-authority-covid-19-compliance-and-enforcement-good-practice-framework-december-2020
 

As per the local government website, YouGov is used for intelligence and data gathering. As they draw on national data including from YouGov to understand trends in different levels of compliance against different regulations (face covering, social distancing). So polling data is quite important. 

[Andre91]

30 minutes ago, zahidf said:

 

 

Yeah probably my feeling on this 

Hard, hard agree. It’s also the time I started being less critical of people’s actions at large, you know ‘Well if they see the people at the top being flippant, why wouldn’t they see being flippant as an option?’ kind of thing. 

[jump]

7 minutes ago, zahidf said:

And the opposite to Wetherspoons 

 

I still think Brewdog are a bit w*nk. They own the copyright of "punk" somehow and been sending lawyers after anyone who use the term, I've seen a few pubs/clubs using terms like "punk night" or "punk all dayer" for their own events get threats from them.

[Crazyfool01]

It’s weird because before the start of lockdown 1 ... I would have said that a western society like ours weren’t capable of doing the kind of lockdown we had in lockdown 1 .... and I was wrong .... now people are really wanting harder lockdowns in my workplace and talking about the need for them (annacdotal I know ) but I do think we could do harder now if the messaging were correct 

[Padjeq]

12 minutes ago, zahidf said:

And the opposite to Wetherspoons 

 

Used to go to the brewdy a lot. If it gets things done quicker, I'll receive a vaccine from the barstaff.

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

It’s weird because before the start of lockdown 1 ... I would have said that a western society like ours weren’t capable of doing the kind of lockdown we had in lockdown 1 .... and I was wrong .... now people are really wanting harder lockdowns in my workplace and talking about the need for them (annacdotal I know ) but I do think we could do harder now if the messaging were correct 

I think society in this country as a whole have surprised a lot of people by how well they’ve stuck to the rules for all this time. Now people can see the light at the end of the tunnel they are prepared to go that bit further so we can get there saving as many lives as possible.