When will this shit end?

[bamber]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

What would the repercussions be though? 

If enough of us wake up and pursue and support this effort, the repercussions will be significant. The repercussions are not the point though. All that is needed is that we win, precedents are then set and it can't happen again. We aren't getting our money back but our children won't have to pay tory cronies ever again.

[jparx]

Uuuuuugh that's rank. So fucking sick of this excessive jingoism. It's ruining us. As if it fucking matters what patch of land you just happened to be born on.

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, jparx said:

Uuuuuugh that's rank. So fucking sick of this excessive jingoism. It's ruining us. As if it fucking matters what patch of land you just happened to be born on.

Maybe it will help some of that anti lockdown brexit flag waving morons more likely to take it?

[SwedgeAntilles]

40 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ha ha ha . So fcking lame

 

https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/oxford-university-astrazeneca-vaccine-uk-flag-union-jack_uk_5fbfdd14c5b68ca87f827a0e/?__twitter_impression=true

And he calls the SNP 'the nationalists' 

[fred quimby]

24 minutes ago, st dan said:

Amazing .. let me guess, he has friends who started a label printing company yesterday who he can throw more billions at to supply these? 

Corrected

[Dark Star]

12 hours ago, mattiloy said:

At that point i think it isnt impossible that it ends with the labour left MPs, a big chunk of the membership leaving and starting a new party proper and possibly also some unions disaffiliating and joining the new party.

I think it's quite likely this will happen, and that will probably ensure at least another 3 terms of Tory government. If not more.

12 hours ago, ShakeyCrash said:

I supported Jeremy Corbyn because he spoke out. The rhetoric right now seems to be stand in line cos they’re fucking up and we may win the next one. 

I support MPs saying what they think and not just going along with political lines.  Anything else is just playing a game i don’t want to play

This. Politicians should call out their own parties when they do something that is wrong. Blindly following rather than constructive criticism ensures nothing changes. Labour are an opposition, I appreciate we're in unprecedented times with the pandemic, but if they don't oppose or challenge at all the public perception will be that they stand for exactly the same thing, meaning there is no reason to ever consider switch voting allegiance.

2 hours ago, eFestivals said:

that might be how it is within sections of the membership, but in the wider voting public it's different.

And if Labour are ever going to win power, it's that wider voting public it needs on side ... and ultimately, if it comes to it, not the purist-left.

If Labour are ever going to win outright in a FPTP system they need votes back in Scotland. There's no way they can get an out and out majority just on the seats in England and Wales. The people of the shires will always vote Tory because it's what you do. There's more chance of Scotland becoming independent than Labour turning it red again.

Just now, efcfanwirral said:

Seeing that flag on there is almost enough to make me into an anti vaxxer...

Ha, I thought the same. 

[Ozanne]

12 minutes ago, bamber said:

If enough of us wake up and pursue and support this effort, the repercussions will be significant. The repercussions are not the point though. All that is needed is that we win, precedents are then set and it can't happen again. We aren't getting our money back but our children won't have to pay tory cronies ever again.

I meant in the courts, it’s not like the courts can turn around and kick them from office or bar them from running again. It’ll just be a fine of some kind. 

[Andre91]

Flag shaggers.

[Tommy101]

7 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Flag shaggers.

They should union jack off instead

[Radiochicken]

47 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Please elaborate upon the difference because it was splitting hairs from an economic standpoint. New labour were champions of the post thatcher/reagan neoliberal consensus.

Deregulated financial markets, PFI, tuition fees..

Even the privatisation of royal Mail was a labour idea.

Then there were the wars. 
 

If boris pursues a truly keynesian recovery, secures a good brexit deal and oversees the massive investment in infrastructure and green energy that he has promised and abstains from any overseas military intervention, it will have been a more progressive government than any new labour administration.

The chart below shows government spending as a % of GDP. The difference from major to new labour is negligible*
 

and in fact it goes down, all the way until new labour invaded afghanistan and Iraq when it ticked up as a consequence 

Look, I don’t want to pick holes in your analysis (although it’s pretty one sided) and thanks for taking the time to share.

But you’re kinda making my first point for me. Tony Blair hadn’t been on a ballot paper in 15 years and projecting into the future using that lens, being like anything “not Corbyn” = New Labour or Blairite is not helpful.

And to your point about differences between the two.... start with the absolute basics and (you’ll hate me for this) park the ideology and even policy for a second. This Tory government lacks competence. Incompetence kills people. It’s far from a done deal, but Kier is on the path to creating an option for a competent government.

[squirrelarmy]

While we’re on the flag discussion, how many of you have strong ties your county flag? As a Yorkshireman I know we make a huge deal about being proud of our regional heritage. I know the Cornish have a similar view too. 
 

Are we the only crazy ones who prefer our regional identity over our national one? 

[bamber]

21 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I meant in the courts, it’s not like the courts can turn around and kick them from office or bar them from running again. It’ll just be a fine of some kind. 

The courts can't remove them from office, but they can set precedents that disallow this misappropriation of public money in future so it simply can't happen again. Like I said we aren't getting our money back, but if the courts rule this unlawful, at least our children won't be fleeced again. Please donate here https://goodlawproject.org/

Hip Hop is bigger than the government....

 

[mattiloy]

20 minutes ago, Radiochicken said:

Look, I don’t want to pick holes in your analysis (although it’s pretty one sided) and thanks for taking the time to share.

But you’re kinda making my first point for me. Tony Blair hadn’t been on a ballot paper in 15 years and projecting into the future using that lens, being like anything “not Corbyn” = New Labour or Blairite is not helpful.

And to your point about differences between the two.... start with the absolute basics and (you’ll hate me for this) park the ideology and even policy for a second. This Tory government lacks competence. Incompetence kills people. It’s far from a done deal, but Kier is on the path to creating an option for a competent government.

I don’t know what you mean by competence to be honest. The technical work of government is largely done by civil servants. Politicians are basically responsible for decision making and policy positions. In that regard how can you possibly say that an administration which enthusiastically joined an illegal war that caused over a million civilian deaths was competent? They courted the media effectively sure. But there were a litany of scandals and shit policies. How exactly is that competent?

New labour’s electoral success between 97-05 is basically their main success as far as I see it. They were shit in government. So lets not have that again.

Edited November 27, 2020 by mattiloy

[bamber]

8 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

While we’re on the flag discussion, how many of you have strong ties your county flag? As a Yorkshireman I know we make a huge deal about being proud of our regional heritage. I know the Cornish have a similar view too. 
 

Are we the only crazy ones who prefer our regional identity over our national one? 

Nationalism and even regionalism, exceptionalism, supremacism, flag waving generally, is poison (outside sport).

 

[zahidf]

Downing Street have said there were ‘no plans’ to have the Union flag printed on the Oxford University and AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, following reports that Number 10’s Union Unit had asked for the British flag to appear on packaging.

[bamber]

Just now, zahidf said:

Downing Street have said there were ‘no plans’ to have the Union flag printed on the Oxford University and AstraZeneca coronavirus vaccine, following reports that Number 10’s Union Unit had asked for the British flag to appear on packaging.

I strongly suspect that this flag on vaccines thing is a bullshit story. It has all the hallmarks of a internet bullshit rumour. It does not detract from the fact that billions have been handed out to tory cronies and that we must pursue that fucking real bullshit through the courts.

[st dan]

7 minutes ago, bamber said:

Nationalism and even regionalism, exceptionalism, supremacism, flag waving generally, is poison (outside sport).

 

Not sure I agree with this entirely but I do see your point. However it can be used in a positive way in certain circumstances, for example the Tongans/Fijians/Samoans could not be prouder of their heritage and use it generally to good effect. 

[zahidf]

Ridiculous

 

Drinkers visiting pubs in England’s Tier 2 regions will have to leave the premises once they have finished their food.

Under the new post-lockdown guidance, pubs in Tier 2 areas can only stay open if they can function as a restaurant and alcohol can only be served with a substantial meal.

The Prime Minister’s official spokesman, asked how long drinkers can stay in the pub after purchasing a substantial meal, said: “We’ve been clear that, in Tier 2 I believe, that you need to have a substantial meal if ordering any alcohol and it remains the case that the guidance says that once the meal is finished, it is at that point.”

[steviewevie]

Wales bringing in new restrictions as virus starts to spread there again.

It's almost as if when you have a lockdown case numbers go down, and then when lift restrictions they go up again.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Ridiculous

 

Drinkers visiting pubs in England’s Tier 2 regions will have to leave the premises once they have finished their food.

Under the new post-lockdown guidance, pubs in Tier 2 areas can only stay open if they can function as a restaurant and alcohol can only be served with a substantial meal.

The Prime Minister’s official spokesman, asked how long drinkers can stay in the pub after purchasing a substantial meal, said: “We’ve been clear that, in Tier 2 I believe, that you need to have a substantial meal if ordering any alcohol and it remains the case that the guidance says that once the meal is finished, it is at that point.”

why ridiculous?

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ridiculous

 

Drinkers visiting pubs in England’s Tier 2 regions will have to leave the premises once they have finished their food.

Under the new post-lockdown guidance, pubs in Tier 2 areas can only stay open if they can function as a restaurant and alcohol can only be served with a substantial meal.

The Prime Minister’s official spokesman, asked how long drinkers can stay in the pub after purchasing a substantial meal, said: “We’ve been clear that, in Tier 2 I believe, that you need to have a substantial meal if ordering any alcohol and it remains the case that the guidance says that once the meal is finished, it is at that point.”

As we discussed yesterday, this is being done to ensure no pubs or people end up taking this piss to try to limit the spread of the virus. You showed us evidence yesterday which is why they are having to clarify the rules. 

[bamber]

8 minutes ago, st dan said:

Not sure I agree with this entirely but I do see your point. However it can be used in a positive way in certain circumstances, for example the Tongans/Fijians/Samoans could not be prouder of their heritage and use it generally to good effect. 

The Fijian flag has a Union Jack on it FFS, as do loads of flags BTW and the Samoan flag has cross on it. Think about that and why these ancient pacific island nations are waving flags with such symbols on them and what that means.

[zero000]

43 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

While we’re on the flag discussion, how many of you have strong ties your county flag? As a Yorkshireman I know we make a huge deal about being proud of our regional heritage. I know the Cornish have a similar view too. 
 

Are we the only crazy ones who prefer our regional identity over our national one? 

*Waves hand* 

I’m welsh. Our flag is bad ass. It has a fucking dragon on it for Christ sake! How could you not be on board with that? Maybe the Union Jack needs some Brexit unicorns or something...

[Mellotr0n]

47 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

While we’re on the flag discussion, how many of you have strong ties your county flag? As a Yorkshireman I know we make a huge deal about being proud of our regional heritage. I know the Cornish have a similar view too. 
 

Are we the only crazy ones who prefer our regional identity over our national one? 

I don't think I "prefer" either, and I'd say the vast majority of people I know down in Sussex are the same. I'm always a little bit baffled when people care that much. It's completely random which patch of land each of us was born on.

Was at a Royal Blood gig in Sheffield a few years back, and inbetween every. single. song. half the crowd was aggressively chanting YORKSHIRE YORKSHIRE YORKSHIRE. I just don't get it.

No problem with people being happy with where there from obviously, but don't expect anyone else to give a fuck.

Sorry if this came across overly aggressive, it's not intended to be. It's just a phenomena that's always baffled me.

Edited November 27, 2020 by Mellotr0n

[philipsteak]

14 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Ridiculous

 

Drinkers visiting pubs in England’s Tier 2 regions will have to leave the premises once they have finished their food.

Under the new post-lockdown guidance, pubs in Tier 2 areas can only stay open if they can function as a restaurant and alcohol can only be served with a substantial meal.

The Prime Minister’s official spokesman, asked how long drinkers can stay in the pub after purchasing a substantial meal, said: “We’ve been clear that, in Tier 2 I believe, that you need to have a substantial meal if ordering any alcohol and it remains the case that the guidance says that once the meal is finished, it is at that point.”

Gonna be fun enforcing that