Leyrulion Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 hour ago, mattiloy said: Particularly if backed by a sizeable membership and the unions. This is surely the key reason behind past failures, if unions (and their money) leave then a split by the left of the party might have a chance. They'd need a hell of a lot of money to do it successfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chapple12345 Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 7 hours ago, shoptildrop said: I was just thinking this the other day, will there be a Jools though as it's a bit of a busy piss up with loads of singing so will be interesting that if they do it what it will actually look like The BBC have said they're definitely doing a hootenanny but my understanding is they're basing more with the Rhythm and Blues orchestra so will have solo guests performing instead of big bands and then any guests will have to be from the same household, so fear not your NYE fix of Jools will still happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan1984 Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Pretty sure the BBC have said that they’re providing lots of NYE entertainment this year with no chance for people to go out. Hootenanny followed by three hours of Glastonbury is the usual, isn’t it? The BBC news are running a piece on Spaffer replying to the 8-year-old boy’s letter about Santa. Someone said this the other day but it really feels like he wants to get the year over and done with and then get rid of the horrible Brexit lot early in the new year before being ‘nice, funny Boris’ riding the vaccine wave, doesn’t it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Ozanne said: I don’t think it’ll make a huge difference, I can’t see the majority of voters even caring about this Corbyn story given everything else that’s going on. they'll just see the headlines about labour infighting and won't vote for them...just like so many times in the past. To many on the left ideology is more important than power, so less likely to compromise and work together. But, they can't split because they know smaller parties don't stand a chance with our electoral system, so they stay together and just squabble endlessly. This antisemitism thing has become less about the abuse suffered by jewish labour members and about the persecution of corbyn ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 With labour and the brexit thing...my guess is they don't want to be seen as blocking brexit anymore, especially for Starmer who many see as one of those remainers you used to hear about....and in the end the only choice is a very thin trade deal which lowers tarrifs but not much else, and no deal which is a big unknown and a massive risk. At least with a deal there is something to work with for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 7 hours ago, mattiloy said: It was suicide when Change UK did it but they still did it. Although they had little choice as they were all up for reselection by their constituency parties. I think you misjudge the strength of feeling around this. It isn’t just Corbyn, its that Starmer is also undermining party democracy, silencing debate and acting like a tyrant. I think in the kind of areas that many left wing labour MPs are in seats certainly some of them could risk leaving the labour party based on factional attacks by centrists and still win their seats. Particularly if backed by a sizeable membership and the unions. we'll see what happens with labour membership in the coming months. But looks like Corbyn wants to pick a fight, instead of apologising to jewish labour members and to assist in fixing what was reported by EHRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Bolsonaro says he won't take vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, steviewevie said: With labour and the brexit thing...my guess is they don't want to be seen as blocking brexit anymore, especially for Starmer who many see as one of those remainers you used to hear about....and in the end the only choice is a very thin trade deal which lowers tarrifs but not much else, and no deal which is a big unknown and a massive risk. At least with a deal there is something to work with for the future. That’s why they might vote for a deal, to ensure we don’t fall into no deal. They would show they’ve learned their lesson from last year where if they voted in the indicative votes for a customs union then we wouldn’t be where we are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Chris Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 8 hours ago, squirrelarmy said: The fact that you need two bank holidays to get over a night of drinking rather than the single bank holiday we get south of the border says a lot about the Scots ability to process alcohol 😉 You may have a point there! Historically Xmas and especially Boxing Day weren’t traditional holidays in many parts of Scotland. Pubs didn’t open on Xmas day due to this pesky religious thing and only newspapers published in England were available on Boxing Day, which was a normal working day. So come Hogmanay God allowed us to get as pissed as a f%%k. Now we have both Xmas and new year! But as I said, this year it’s a quiet one for me, just Jools and time to reflect on what has happened, hope that next year we can get back to normality and of course, the farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparx Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, steviewevie said: With labour and the brexit thing...my guess is they don't want to be seen as blocking brexit anymore, especially for Starmer who many see as one of those remainers you used to hear about....and in the end the only choice is a very thin trade deal which lowers tarrifs but not much else, and no deal which is a big unknown and a massive risk. At least with a deal there is something to work with for the future. Yeah that’s exactly it. They’re going to support a deal because a fair chunk of ex-Labour voters want it to happen and as you say, Labour have the remainer vibe about them still. They’re going to back a deal to try and win back support but also so when it goes tits up they can say “well we supported you (govt) on this, we didn’t block it and we got out of your way, but you’ve utterly fucked it up” Edit: and to avoid no deal of course. A lot of people are really having a hissy fit over Starmer at the minute. Just chill the fuck out. Such a long way to go yet to see how this all plays out. We need to get through COVID then we can start and judge . Edited November 27, 2020 by jparx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ozanne said: That’s why they might vote for a deal, to ensure we don’t fall into no deal. They would show they’ve learned their lesson from last year where if they voted in the indicative votes for a customs union then we wouldn’t be where we are now. yeah man, that was so stupid. Everyone just voting for their preferred version and not any other, and ended up with no majority for anything, and now we have this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, jparx said: Yeah that’s exactly it. They’re going to support a deal because a fair chunk of ex-Labour voters want it to happen and as you say, Labour have the remainder vibe about them still. They’re going to back a deal to try and win back support but also so when it goes tits up they can say “well we supported you (govt) on this, we didn’t block it and we got out of your way, but you’ve utterly fucked it up” Yeah, just say it's a shit deal, but it's better than a no deal. But also thing is...there are still a lot of remainers out there who maybe feel they don't have a political home...but maybe they have other things to worry about now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozanne Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, steviewevie said: yeah man, that was so stupid. Everyone just voting for their preferred version and not any other, and ended up with no majority for anything, and now we have this. Cracking TV though. In all seriousness and this won’t be a surprise but I trust Starmer and if he feels voting for a deal is the best way forward then I’ll try to understand and see where they are coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jparx Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Just now, steviewevie said: Yeah, just say it's a shit deal, but it's better than a no deal. But also thing is...there are still a lot of remainers out there who maybe feel they don't have a political home...but maybe they have other things to worry about now Well I think they need to accept reality and move on. That’s what Starmer is doing and I think it’s the only play right now. It’s a colossal mistake, but it’s essentially been voted for twice now. It’s happening one way or another. Just stick with Labour, perhaps swallow some stuff you’re not too happy about and let’s get these clowns out of no. 10. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamber Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 This is not unprecedented. After the Civil War, 1647, for around 16 years in the 17th century Christmas was cancelled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattiloy Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 9 minutes ago, steviewevie said: we'll see what happens with labour membership in the coming months. But looks like Corbyn wants to pick a fight, instead of apologising to jewish labour members and to assist in fixing what was reported by EHRC. Starmer has been picking a fight with not just Corbyn but the left more broadly since his election. This is a problem of his making. I also refer you to this shakeycrash post 8 hours ago, ShakeyCrash said: So is it about what you believe or about what is right to get elected? I am hearing so much discourse about the right time to say things that I’m concerned that we are becoming as political as those we so often call out. I supported Jeremy Corbyn because he spoke out. The rhetoric right now seems to be stand in line cos they’re fucking up and we may win the next one. I support MPs saying what they think and not just going along with political lines. Anything else is just playing a game i don’t want to play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, bamber said: This is not unprecedented. After the Civil War, 1647, for around 16 years in the 17th century Christmas was cancelled. those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, mattiloy said: Starmer has been picking a fight with not just Corbyn but the left more broadly since his election. This is a problem of his making. The EHRC findings were not Starmer's fault, or how Corbyn reacted to them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eFestivals Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 6 hours ago, Leyrulion said: This is surely the key reason behind past failures, if unions (and their money) leave then a split by the left of the party might have a chance. They'd need a hell of a lot of money to do it successfully. have a chance of what? Another split in the not-tory vote only gives the tories a bigger victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Music Girl Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 (edited) 33 minutes ago, steviewevie said: they'll just see the headlines about labour infighting and won't vote for them...just like so many times in the past. To many on the left ideology is more important than power, so less likely to compromise and work together. But, they can't split because they know smaller parties don't stand a chance with our electoral system, so they stay together and just squabble endlessly. This antisemitism thing has become less about the abuse suffered by jewish labour members and about the persecution of corbyn ffs. Out of upvotes but my thoughts exactly. Depressing to see. Only upside is that we are a way out from an election (although obviously that is s downside in itself). But if this was happening in the run-up it would be massively off-putting to many. Edited November 27, 2020 by Zoo Music Girl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviewevie Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dawg Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Anyone know what the criteria is for moving out of the tiers? Links etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamber Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 Corbyn is not an antisemite, never was, never will be. He and his followers are however vehemently anti Israeli. I'm not that. This is where the left self destructs. Israel has to exist. Many on the left cannot accept that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Music Girl Posted November 27, 2020 Report Share Posted November 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, jparx said: Well I think they need to accept reality and move on. That’s what Starmer is doing and I think it’s the only play right now. It’s a colossal mistake, but it’s essentially been voted for twice now. It’s happening one way or another. Just stick with Labour, perhaps swallow some stuff you’re not too happy about and let’s get these clowns out of no. 10. Yeah totally agree. I'm a remainer but that doesn't really amount to much when remain is no longer an option. It's either a shit deal or no deal now, but there's no stopping Brexit. I thought Labour were shit on Brexit at the time but I still voted for them because I wanted the Tories out (or at the very least a hung parliament). Wouldn't stop me voting for them again either. I'm more likely to now In fact as I really didn't like the whole cult of Corbyn thing at the time (but still voted Labour in both elections). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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