When will this shit end?

[Fuzzy Afro]

35 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Shows how hard this kind of science is. The fate of the entire world depends on the key question of whether asymptomatic carriers can spread the virus. And we're apparently still releasing large studies that are contradicting each other.

I thought this was settled already - in the opposite way to this study.

I thought the smart money was that genuine asymptomatic carriers don’t spread much, but those who are 24-48 hours away from getting symptoms (presymptomatics) are highly contagious 

[steviewevie]

[stuartbert two hats]

14 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I thought the smart money was that genuine asymptomatic carriers don’t spread much, but those who are 24-48 hours away from getting symptoms (presymptomatics) are highly contagious 

I was a bit imprecise in my language, including presymptomatics in "asymptomatic". But the point stands, the situation as you described appears to be quite different to the abstract screenshotted by Vine of a large study. This shit it hard!

What says our resident expert? @Toilet Duck

[Ozanne]

I see we are going to be tiering away from lockdown on Dec 2nd.

[steviewevie]

 

[Toilet Duck]

28 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I was a bit imprecise in my language, including presymptomatics in "asymptomatic". But the point stands, the situation as you described appears to be quite different to the abstract screenshotted by Vine of a large study. This shit it hard!

What says our resident expert? @Toilet Duck

Transmission dynamics in Wuhan have given us some insight previously and this adds to it. Early on in the outbreak, they looked at close contacts of symptomatic cases and concluded that somewhere between 2-6% ended up getting infected. Since then, it’s become abundantly clear that a small number of people drive the majority of infections, the so called super-spreaders. The problem is, we have no clear idea what defines a super-spreader yet! (We’ve discussed this before and the closest we’ve got is a mixture of biology, behaviour and environment...doesn’t narrow it down much!). If even symptomatic people aren’t necessarily going to pass on the infection, then it becomes extremely difficult to pin down. So, we end up telling everyone that is positive to isolate, and their close contacts to do the same. It’s a safety first approach, but not ideal, however until we have the technology to say for sure (or with a high degree of confidence) that you aren’t infectious, we’re kinda stuck with it. I do think the antigen tests, used regularly are the way out of long self-isolation and while not perfect, are good enough. In terms of definitely stating that asymptomatic individuals are definitely not infectious, I still don’t think we have a clear answer on that unfortunately.

[squirrelarmy]

16 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I see we are going to be tiering away from lockdown on Dec 2nd.

Will the new tier system be as harsh as lockdown though?

[Ozanne]

10 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

 

Why are they only finalising these plans now? They should have had plans for all sorts of exits in place when we went into lockdown.

4 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Will the new tier system be as harsh as lockdown though?

Probably not in some of the tiers. 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Why are they only finalising these plans now? They should have had plans for all sorts of exits in place when we went into lockdown.

6 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

it's all press briefings...Bojo going to outline the plan on Monday.

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

it's all press briefings...Bojo going to outline the plan on Monday.

They are discussing in a Cabinet meeting tomorrow which indicates they haven’t finalised plans yet which is my point. 

[Superscally]

Liverpool down to 220...mass non-symptomatic testing picking up a quarter of all cases...

[xxialac]

"Ministers are seeking to identify 'morale boosting' measures such as allowing people to watch live sport again or reopening cinemas. 'That is an important element to consider,' a Government source said. '[Paving a way to] allowing people to see the latest Bond film in the cinema would send a big signal that normality has returned.' 

A Government source said: 'Businesses such as beauty salons are dying to open and have made themselves Covid safe. People want to get their nails done before Christmas – it's a huge season for these businesses."

I hate the Government's focus on the trivial...

 

[Ryan1984]

8 minutes ago, xxialac said:

"Ministers are seeking to identify 'morale boosting' measures such as allowing people to watch live sport again or reopening cinemas. 'That is an important element to consider,' a Government source said. '[Paving a way to] allowing people to see the latest Bond film in the cinema would send a big signal that normality has returned.' 

A Government source said: 'Businesses such as beauty salons are dying to open and have made themselves Covid safe. People want to get their nails done before Christmas – it's a huge season for these businesses."

I hate the Government's focus on the trivial...

 

Bond is due at Easter now... A sensible government would plan for gradual openings in spring. This lot, however, are looking like they are going to undo so much hard work and sacrifice - when we are so close - just so The Sun can use their ‘Bo Jo Ho - Boris saves Christmas’ headline.

[xxialac]

6 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Bond is due at Easter now... A sensible government would plan for gradual openings in spring. This lot, however, are looking like they are going to undo so much hard work and sacrifice - when we are so close - just so The Sun can use their ‘Bo Jo Ho - Boris saves Christmas’ headline.

Totally. Boneheads, the lot of them.

[topmarksbri]

The biggest moral booster they could do would be to lay out a detailed timeline recognising the factors that could effect that timeline and how they'd effect the timeline. I think everyone understands that unexpected things come up but the fact that we're hearing what the plan is a week before we're coming out of lockdown is ludicrous - how are businesses meant to prepare?

[Chapple12345]

I for one can't wait to find out the leaked plans tomorrow night via a Sky News tweet and then a bat signal at 3:30am Monday morning 

[topmarksbri]

3 minutes ago, Chapple12345 said:

I for one can't wait to find out the leaked plans tomorrow night via a Sky News tweet and then a bat signal at 3:30am Monday morning 

Ha - I fully expect we'll find out the vaccine news from a series of escape room clues and the real vaccine will be the friends we made along the way...

[Punksnotdead]

52 minutes ago, xxialac said:

"Ministers are seeking to identify 'morale boosting' measures such as allowing people to watch live sport again or reopening cinemas. 'That is an important element to consider,' a Government source said. '[Paving a way to] allowing people to see the latest Bond film in the cinema would send a big signal that normality has returned.' 

A Government source said: 'Businesses such as beauty salons are dying to open and have made themselves Covid safe. People want to get their nails done before Christmas – it's a huge season for these businesses."

I hate the Government's focus on the trivial...

 

'Dying to open' or 'Open for dying'?

[Ozanne]

56 minutes ago, xxialac said:

"Ministers are seeking to identify 'morale boosting' measures such as allowing people to watch live sport again or reopening cinemas. 'That is an important element to consider,' a Government source said. '[Paving a way to] allowing people to see the latest Bond film in the cinema would send a big signal that normality has returned.' 

A Government source said: 'Businesses such as beauty salons are dying to open and have made themselves Covid safe. People want to get their nails done before Christmas – it's a huge season for these businesses."

I hate the Government's focus on the trivial...

 

Morale boosting for me would be a competent government with a clear, laid out plan for the winter months ahead that focuses on saving as many lives as possible and safe guarding the NHS for as many non-COVID treatments as possible. Not one that chases headlines, wastes opportunities and ignores warnings.

Edited November 22, 2020 by Ozanne

[Chawk]

Free No Time to Die ticket for everyone who gets a vaccine

Edited November 22, 2020 by Chawk

[eFestivals]

14 hours ago, JoeyT said:

This is true to an extent if you are talking about exercising as a generic thing but there are activities that sit within it such as swimming that can’t be done at home.

It’s easy to say go out for a run but something like swimming which is non weight bearing is what some have to do by necessity due to injuries for instance.

I’m not bothered massively by gyms closing because I have been able to purchase my own equipment and can go outside to run but not everyone is in the same boat.

and the pub social can't be done at home, but pubs are still shut.

There's a million different ways to exercise in and outside the house, and just about anyone should have enough imagination to think of ways to cover a few short weeks.

The point isn't to find an angle to keep something open, it's about removing the chances for one person to infect another. Which happens when any two people share the same space.

[eFestivals]

 

11 hours ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

I agree that Zionism and the Israeli govt are two separate things - one's an ideology, the other's the Government.  I've never claimed the two are the same.  I've been attacking both of them on here, but for different reasons: the former for being irrational

what's irrational about the idea of 'a people' having a place to collectively call home?

Why do you think specifically the Jews are not permitted the same as other peoples?

Edited November 22, 2020 by eFestivals

[eFestivals]

11 hours ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

 trying to expand the definition of antisemitism

Or: trying to expand the definition of Zionism.

[eFestivals]

8 hours ago, topmarksbri said:

The biggest moral booster they could do would be to lay out a detailed timeline recognising the factors that could effect that timeline and how they'd effect the timeline. I think everyone understands that unexpected things come up but the fact that we're hearing what the plan is a week before we're coming out of lockdown is ludicrous - how are businesses meant to prepare?

THIS ^^^^^  

They could, for example, say "outdoor live music will be able to resume on 1st May (subject to the NHS situation in May)".

I wouldn't expect them to do that until the vaccine has started being rolled out, so that the start date they come up with is based on the specifics of vaccination, but the govt should be in that position no later than the end of January.

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by eFestivals

[steviewevie]

Maybe now Cain and Cummngs are gone the plans for December into January will not get leaked to the press and Johnson can announce in parliament on Monday and at a Downing St briefing later in the day. Keep the backbenchers happy etc.