When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

TalkUtterShit

 

[steviewevie]

Duh

 

[DeanoL]

17 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Then we need effective leadership to get the public on board. They should be out every week saying Christmas will be smaller and different but they don’t want to piss people off. Leadership is about doing what’s best whether it’s popular or not. This is in theory the ideal situation for a virus to be spread round and we’ll pay the price if we are allowed a normal(ish) Christmas period I fear. 

The rules also need to be simple enough and appear to be fair too. Our current plan is for me and my partner to spend the two weeks from the 21st with my parents. It will be completely safe, as we won't leave the house for the week prior to it, and nor will they, and we can drive door-to-door.

But that's privilege we get from being able to work from home and being able to drive. All the rules we've see so far essentially ignore that in a desire for fairness instead (perhaps out of fear of lack of compliance, rather than moral values). It would be unfair to say we could see our family but people who work in supermarkets or don't drive cannot.

As was pointed out, the rules in that Sun story seem similar to the ones I've been proposing for a while. The reality is that if everything else is closed over those days, then it's *just* household mixing so it's not too bad - the average person who can't work from home will be seeing a lot fewer people than if they were at work. This would generally be regarded as a positive! 

Now if we realistically think that by Christmas numbers will be right down, and a test and trace system will be in place that is able to capture and contain individual outbreaks - then at that point people travelling all over the country for Christmas becomes relatively more risky - you're potentially introducing the virus back to places where it's been mostly eradicated. But that's not going to happen by Christmas. It's going to remain endemic across the entire country, at which point people moving from one place to another shouldn't have a huge impact on numbers.

Essentially we should be able to make it so that the total number of contacts that everyone across the country has over that five day Christmas period is less than the number they would have if we did "Christmas is cancelled, carry on as normal", albeit more than it is in current lockdown. Those contacts will just be different.

My only issue with the reported plan is that it really needs to extend out to NYE too - they can't open hospitality on NYE surely? Which means gatherings in homes will be tempting instead - what would be bad is if people went off to see family and then gathered all together with mates on NYE. 

[steviewevie]

Christmas is cancelled in my house. Haven't told the others yet.

[xxialac]

53 minutes ago, mikegday said:

I voted for Brexit so everyone (South Americans included) applying to move to the U.K. is considered equal irrespective of where the individual currently lives. Your comment is tosh and really frustrating that 4 years on we’re still in our trenches. I’m a ‘brexiteer’ (in that I voted Brexit, mad to try and lump 17million people as one entity). I’m very much looking forward to an increase in non-EU migrants, migrants from around the world who will benefit and find it much easier to do so once everyone is considered equally.

But please stop, it’s absurd to portray 17million people as thinking identical or to say you know why 17 million people voted the way they did.

Well regardless of why you voted, the result is you've made us all poorer, limited our freedoms and increased bureacracy. 

The idea that Brexit was set up with the noble goal of making it easier for non-EU migrants to come to the UK is beyond derision.

[mikegday]

28 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Do you still think your vote was the right decision given where we are in negotiations?

No, I wish I voted to stay now. Not because I think my reasons for voting to leave or even leaving is wrong but because the process of leaving and negotiating a future deal is just so massive and consuming every bit of energy and money from the gov. I completely underestimated how difficult this was going to be, not surprising as a 20 something spending most of my day doing admin or scratching my bollocks. Only a few people in this country were really qualified to make this decision. Unfortunately we were all given a choice and now it must be acted. The intention I think is right and I do think Britain will be a powerful force for good, but I despair at the time, energy and money going into sorting out what I voted for.

It’s really complex and every single person who voted to stay and leave done so for so many different reasons, that’s what gets me so angry at people 4 years on diluting it down to ‘brexiters voted to get rid of South American nurses immigrunts (how dare you write immigrunts)’ - ridiculous!

[zahidf]

Starmer keeps Jez out

[tigger123]

5 minutes ago, mikegday said:

No, I wish I voted to stay now. Not because I think my reasons for voting to leave or even leaving is wrong but because the process of leaving and negotiating a future deal is just so massive and consuming every bit of energy and money from the gov. I completely underestimated how difficult this was going to be, not surprising as a 20 something spending most of my day doing admin or scratching my bollocks. Only a few people in this country were really qualified to make this decision. Unfortunately we were all given a choice and now it must be acted. The intention I think is right and I do think Britain will be a powerful force for good, but I despair at the time, energy and money going into sorting out what I voted for.

It’s really complex and every single person who voted to stay and leave done so for so many different reasons, that’s what gets me so angry at people 4 years on diluting it down to ‘brexiters voted to get rid of South American nurses immigrunts (how dare you write immigrunts)’ - ridiculous!

Surely if you felt unqualified to make a decision you either shouldn’t have voted or voted for the status quo, ie to remain??

[xxialac]

6 minutes ago, mikegday said:

No, I wish I voted to stay now. Not because I think my reasons for voting to leave or even leaving is wrong but because the process of leaving and negotiating a future deal is just so massive and consuming every bit of energy and money from the gov. I completely underestimated how difficult this was going to be, not surprising as a 20 something spending most of my day doing admin or scratching my bollocks. Only a few people in this country were really qualified to make this decision. Unfortunately we were all given a choice and now it must be acted. The intention I think is right and I do think Britain will be a powerful force for good, but I despair at the time, energy and money going into sorting out what I voted for.

It’s really complex and every single person who voted to stay and leave done so for so many different reasons, that’s what gets me so angry at people 4 years on diluting it down to ‘brexiters voted to get rid of South American nurses immigrunts (how dare you write immigrunts)’ - ridiculous!

You say 'reasons' but you've given one reason and one reason only:

"For immigrants to be given equal status when applying to move to the U.K."

Is that all you can come up with?

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Starmer keeps Jez out

Blimey. How to fuck off everyone.

[steviewevie]

11 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Surely if you felt unqualified to make a decision you either shouldn’t have voted or voted for the status quo, ie to remain??

To be fair none of us were qualified, and it wasn't helped by the way both sides campaigned. In the end it was an emotional decision, an existential decision...and on that day the majority of those who voted thought we were better off outside the EU, and that is that.

Personally I think it's a fuckin shame, but there you go.

[incident]

42 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

TalkUtterShit

 

"the number of people dying today is the same as it would be any other year in total"

A "data scientist" should really learn to read data.

[xxialac]

Of course what's not mentioned ON A SITE FOR FANS OF LIVE MUSIC, is that this is inevitably going to diminish the quality of the live music scene in the UK.

Slow hand clap for those who voted with their emotions, not by thinking it through.

Edited November 18, 2020 by xxialac

[Fuzzy Afro]

Voting Brexit to stop Europeans getting an “unfair advantage” is a new one 

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, incident said:

"the number of people dying today is the same as it would be any other year in total"

A "data scientist" should really learn to read data.

I do not want to see November's numbers

 

[foolee]

13 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Surely if you felt unqualified to make a decision you either shouldn’t have voted or voted for the status quo, ie to remain??

Do you think everyone that votes has a qualified decision as to why they vote? Many peoples reasons to vote comes from where they've grown up and how their families vote as that can shape how people think. 

12 minutes ago, xxialac said:

You say 'reasons' but you've given one reason and one reason only:

"For immigrants to be given equal status when applying to move to the U.K."

Is that all you can come up with?

I think it's unfair to respond to mikegday like this as he's responding to someone who has basically stated everyone who voted leave is racist which is simply untrue.

Just because someone doesn't hold the same opinion as you doesn't mean they do not have a good reason for it. It also doesn't mean that if someone isn't as well informed as someone else that they shouldn't vote or vote for the status quo. People need to be educated and spoken to, not ridiculed. 

[tigger123]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

To be fair none of us were qualified, and it wasn't helped by the way both sides campaigned. In the end it was an emotional decision, an existential decision...and on that day the majority of those who voted thought we were better off outside the EU, and that is that.

Personally I think it's a fuckin shame, but there you go.

I’m not saying we were qualified, I think hardly any of us outside government/civil service were qualified enough. It’s why I think referenda are dangerous. 
 

I knew I wasn’t qualified enough for the vote, which is why I thought it safer to vote to remain, rather than believing the rhetoric, spin and in some examples plain lies that were in plentiful supply at the time. 

[xxialac]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

Voting Brexit to stop Europeans getting an “unfair advantage” is a new one 

Ironically, a lot of people - not people on here but a lot of people - voted because they don't like foreign people. Given labour needs, what will happen is that white foreign people (who they don't like) will be replaced by brown skinned foreign people (who they like even less). 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Voting Brexit to stop Europeans getting an “unfair advantage” is a new one 

I remember hearing it at the time, and I can kind of see the logic, but to make sense, it would need immigration to get easier for everyone.  Then it would actually be pretty coherent.  But I don't think that will happen.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Dorian Lynskey hits the nail on the head as he so often does. 

[Gingerfish79]

2 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Blimey. How to fuck off everyone.

Starmer has massively fucked this up, right from the start. He choose to make it political instead of following procedure. For a kick-off, I didn't think the leaders office had the power to withhold the whip?

Every time the government is there for the taking, Labour manage to create their own crisis to let them off the hook. The sheer continued incompetence at the heart of the PLP is astounding, it would be funny if it wasn't so heart-breaking.

For everyone's sake, implement the EHRC findings ASAP through due process and stop infighting, before its too late.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, xxialac said:

Ironically, a lot of people - not people on here but a lot of people - voted because they don't like foreign people. Given labour needs, what will happen is that white foreign people (who they don't like) will be replaced by brown skinned foreign people (who they like even less). 

I said that to some Brexit voters at the time, surely they’d at least rather keep Poles and Lithuanians over those from further afield who they really dislike? 

[Lycra]

1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

Do you get emotional and well-being support?

There's no time for emotions when working. Just red wine after. 

[mikegday]

24 minutes ago, xxialac said:

You say 'reasons' but you've given one reason and one reason only:

"For immigrants to be given equal status when applying to move to the U.K."

Is that all you can come up with?

I’ve given the reason I needed to in response to a post I didn’t agree with.

to the other posts; it’s safe to say in hindsight given what’s still going on we were all unqualified to have a say in this - did I feel unqualified at the time? Of course not. I was right there thinking I knew best!

In regards to making us all poorer etc. I apologise for my part in that. I’ve just said that i’m gutted at the time and money this is wasting.

But the reasons and intention can’t be pressed onto someone. I can’t speak for the way you voted the way you did and you can’t do the same for me. Hence why I responded to this post. ‘Brexiteers’ and ‘remainers’ are not just 2 things, it’s millions of individuals with their own thinking. What the original post set out was no better than the Tory’s saying ‘people’s priorities’ - we are taking a huge step back if we think for one second any 2 people can be lumped together. There is no ‘people’. There is no one ‘brexiteer’ voice or one ‘remainer’ voice. There are individuals only. 

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, Gingerfish79 said:

Starmer has massively fucked this up, right from the start. He choose to make it political instead of following procedure. For a kick-off, I didn't think the leaders office had the power to withhold the whip?

Every time the government is there for the taking, Labour manage to create their own crisis to let them off the hook. The sheer continued incompetence at the heart of the PLP is astounding, it would be funny if it wasn't so heart-breaking.

For everyone's sake, implement the EHRC findings ASAP through due process and stop infighting, before its too late.

I think that's the plan..