When will this shit end?

[DickButkis]

3 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Incase you haven’t noticed we don’t live in a left leaning country. 
 

The right wing has the larger voting base as seen in the recent elections and referendum. 
 

The only way to appeal to a broader selection of voters and gain power is by having a centrist position. 
 

The left wing will never gain power in this climate especially with the right wing media influence. 
 

The only times Labour have been in power in recent years has been with centrist based leadership.

Thing is though, you keep pandering to the right wing media and that centrist position keeps shifting to the right and you end up with options of a right-centre party or a right wing party. So it's basically what shade of Tory are you voting for?

 

[steviewevie]

I liked Corbyn when he stood and was then elected, man of principles, not obviously a career politician, agreed with his stance on most things...didnt' think he ever stood much of a chance but didn't think anyone in charge of labour stood a chance at the time. I actually started to go off him when he did his Glastonbury pyrammid stage thing, just didn't sit right with me, bit popstar, bit culty. Was hoping he might quit and give McDonnell a go...who always seemed more pragmatic to me, and better at the media thing, and just brighter in general. Maybe this would have happened if labour hadn't done so well in 2017...I blame May.

[eFestivals]

13 minutes ago, DickButkis said:

The last Labour leader to win an election was matey with Rupert Murdoch, I don’t think that’s any coincidence.

 

the last Labour leader that won an election improved people's lives, I don’t think that’s any coincidence.

 

[DickButkis]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

the last Labour leader that won an election improved people's lives, I don’t think that’s any coincidence.

 

Tell that to the people in Iraq

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I liked Corbyn when he stood and was then elected, man of principles, not obviously a career politician

that always makes me laugh.

Corbyn is the gold standard for a career politician. He's never had a job outside of politics.

[mattiloy]

Weird world where a man speaks the truth, undeniably breaks no rules, but is purged. And then has to meekly grovel to be allowed back in. Authoritarian rule by edict by Keir Stalin 

[squirrelarmy]

4 minutes ago, DickButkis said:

Thing is though, you keep pandering to the right wing media and that centrist position keeps shifting to the right and you end up with options of a right-centre party or a right wing party. So it's basically what shade of Tory are you voting for?

 

The main objective is getting this current batch of Tories out. The only way of doing that is by appealing to those who have voted for them. 
 

The country was never going to magically turn left wing the morning after a Corbyn win. Doesn’t matter what your ideal is of a perfect utopian socialist Britain is. The voting public just aren’t ready for it. 
 

You have to swing the country over gradually, you can’t begin to do that unless you are in power. Corbyn is far too extreme for the average voter which is why he has always been unelectable. 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, DickButkis said:

Tell that to the people in Iraq

being more aligned with the electorate so that you're able to win an election doesn't make invading Iraq the default. 

 

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

that always makes me laugh.

Corbyn is the gold standard for a career politician. He's never had a job outside of politics.

yeah...but you know what I mean...I don't think he ever had ambitions for high office or anything,,,

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

yeah...but you know what I mean...I don't think he ever had ambitions for high office or anything,,,

he always seemed a reluctant leader to me...didn't really want to be there (although he obviously enjoyed that Glastonbury crowd).

[DickButkis]

1 minute ago, squirrelarmy said:

The main objective is getting this current batch of Tories out. The only way of doing that is by appealing to those who have voted for them. 
 

The country was never going to magically turn left wing the morning after a Corbyn win. Doesn’t matter what your ideal is of a perfect utopian socialist Britain is. The voting public just aren’t ready for it. 
 

You have to swing the country over gradually, you can’t begin to do that unless you are in power. Corbyn is far too extreme for the average voter which is why he has always been unelectable. 

Even if he gets elected, which I highly doubt he will, people like him aren't going to push the party further left at all. They'll see what works and push as further right as they can to keep power. It'll just be the status quo and if people like yourself are happy with that then so be it, that just isn't for me.

 

Furthermore, Corbyn's policies weren't extreme they were just made to be extreme by the right wing media. If anything, they are more centre left as opposed to communist as portrayed by the media.

[zahidf]

The idea that these governments, who can barely get together long enough to decide what to have for lunch without having it go through committee hearings for three months first, are somehow coordinated enough to manufacture a fake virus, is hours of entertainment for me.  I fucking WISH that this virus was fake and we could all go back to our blissful existence of buying shit and wasting our money on live music events and movies.

 

[onthebeach]

47 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

It does when you consider a proportion of those "anti vaxxers" will happily snort party powder or take disco biscuits which have been bought from a bloke who they've met for the first time on a night out!

Botox, lip/cheek fillers in the back room of the local hairdressers ....

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, DickButkis said:

Even if he gets elected, which I highly doubt he will, people like him aren't going to push the party further left at all. They'll see what works and push as further right as they can to keep power. It'll just be the status quo and if people like yourself are happy with that then so be it, that just isn't for me.

 

Furthermore, Corbyn's policies weren't extreme they were just made to be extreme by the right wing media. If anything, they are more centre left as opposed to communist as portrayed by the media.

What’s actually wrong with being centrist? Surely being somewhere in the middle is better for more people as a whole?

[DickButkis]

6 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

What’s actually wrong with being centrist? Surely being somewhere in the middle is better for more people as a whole?

It's a stance with no real conviction. It's a way a person can align themselves with right wing policies in a shithousey way instead of going full Tory.

Edited November 17, 2020 by DickButkis

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

he always seemed a reluctant leader to me...didn't really want to be there (although he obviously enjoyed that Glastonbury crowd).

so reluctant he stayed when it was clear he'd lost the confidence of the MPs, and when he was tanking in the polls....?

One of the problems with him is that he turned out to be very vain man. 

[mattiloy]

11 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

being more aligned with the electorate so that you're able to win an election doesn't make invading Iraq the default. 

 

I thought about this- if Starmer is a sleeper agent for the left and all this blarney is just pantomime until he gets in there and then he does a load of progressive shit then great.
But so far with his shadcab appointments, he has indicated that he is more comfortable working with centrist and right wing colleagues.

If you work to empower these factions and degrade party democracy, as has happened so far, then the chances are by the time the labour party get into govt, they’ll be basically full of the kind of pro transatlantic, hawkish people who would back Iraq.
But besides Iraq: income and wealth inequality rose significantly, continued deregulation and empowerment of financial industry, introducing tuition fees. Centrist politics have been defined by pro big business, pro globalisation, socially liberal policies. In the end, the centrist hegemony of 1997-2015 is responsible for brexit because it only delivered for, as the brexiteers are all to happy to remind us, the ’liberal elite’.

Edited November 17, 2020 by mattiloy

[onthebeach]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

he always seemed a reluctant leader to me...didn't really want to be there (although he obviously enjoyed that Glastonbury crowd).

I didn’t bother with the Pyramid stage, I went to the Left Field tent. I thought he did the most amazing speech. The older lefties in the tent who had obviously been waiting for this moment for years were in tears - it was very emotional, but obviously and sadly it wasn’t to be in the ‘real world’

[eFestivals]

Just now, DickButkis said:

It's a stance with no real conviction. It's was a person can align themselves with right wing policies in a shithousey way instead of going full Tory.

the electorate are what they are. Failing to accept that is choosing to lose.  

Despite his many faults - and all leaders have many faults - was Blair much better than the current shithousery, or not? 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I thought about this- if Starmer is a sleeper agent for the left and all this blarney is just pantomime until he gets in there and then he does a load of progressive shit then great.
But so far with his shadcab appointments, he has indicated that he is more comfortable working with centrist and right wing colleagues.

If you work to empower these factions and degrade party democracy, as has happened so far, then the chances are by the time the labour party get into govt, they’ll be basically full of the kind of pro transatlantic, hawkish people who would back Iraq.
But besides Iraq: income and wealth inequality rose significantly, continued deregulation and empowerment of financial industry, introducing tuition fees. Centrist politics have been defined by pro big business, pro globalisation, socially liberal policies. In the end, the centrist hegemony of 1997-2015 is responsible for brexit because it only delivered for, as the brexiteers are all to happy to remind us, the ’liberal elite’.

who knew that no politician was perfect? 

Meanwhile where are the electorate's views? Do they want Corbynism, or do they want something more centralist?

Edited November 17, 2020 by eFestivals

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the electorate are what they are. Failing to accept that is choosing to lose.  

Despite his many faults - and all leaders have many faults - was Blair much better than the current shithousery, or not? 

I would go with yes, I’d rather have Blair in charge any day than any of the Tories. 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

I didn’t bother with the Pyramid stage, I went to the Left Field tent. I thought he did the most amazing speech. The older lefties in the tent who had obviously been waiting for this moment for years were in tears - it was very emotional, but obviously and sadly it wasn’t to be in the ‘real world’

used to be same when Benn did his thing...rousing speech which make you feel good but in the end gets you nowhere.

[squirrelarmy]

5 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

I didn’t bother with the Pyramid stage

Kaiser Chiefs were on the Other Stage so the choice was easy for me to make 😁

[DickButkis]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

who knew that no politician was perfect? 

Meanwhile where are the electorate's views? Do they want Corbynism, or do they want something more centralist?

They want whatever the right-wing media tell them they want.

[DickButkis]

7 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the electorate are what they are. Failing to accept that is choosing to lose.  

Despite his many faults - and all leaders have many faults - was Blair much better than the current shithousery, or not? 

To be fair mate, it's not hard to be better than this shower of c**ts.