When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

[mattiloy]

13 minutes ago, Simsy said:

Yep, I voted green in 2015 cos they're the ones I most agree with. Tories won my constituency (for the 1st time in decades). Haven't made that mistake again & luckily the Tory got kicked out in 2017.

I'll start voting for the party I want once we've got rid of fptp.

is that more likely if everybody just votes for the major parties? probably not. a vote for the greens is a vote closer to getting rid of fptp.

if you think starmer and his irk will ever relinquish any power willfully in the spirit of fairness you have another thing coming. corbyn might have. but starmer will never put at jeopardy the old power structures that he's done so well out of. and neither will most of the PLP and certainly all of the tories.

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

is that more likely if everybody just votes for the major parties? probably not. a vote for the greens is a vote closer to getting rid of fptp.

if you think starmer and his irk will ever relinquish any power willfully in the spirit of fairness you have another thing coming. corbyn might have. but starmer will never put at jeopardy the old power structures that he's done so well out of. and neither will most of the PLP and certainly all of the tories.

😂

[Ozanne]

11 minutes ago, Simsy said:

I wish we could get them kicked out of the country 😂

Grew up in a Tory stronghold, so I know how depressing it is knowing your vote will do fuck all.

My constituency has been tory for over a century and maybe has always been Tory. Labour has become the 2nd party here though which is something and means I can vote for the party I actually want to vote for. 

Definitely agree that the aim should be to kick them out of the country. I think the events of today cloud that as the ultimate aim, the enemy shouldn't be the internal factions of Labour but should be the Tories. Fight and get rid of them I say.

[kingbadger]

18 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

You can see evidence for my openness to starmer’s leadership in this very forum but whilst I’m happy to compromise on many things, the way Corbyn has been treated is appalling. I don’t trust Starmer anymore, he’s a snide. I won’t be voting for the labour party under him.

I’ll go further - under Corbyn, the labour party increased membership. The membership took over various parts of the internal machinery and started to change the discourse to be more progressive. We were called insurgents and trots - half a million of us. There was an active campaign to shed this new membership and return labour party politics to being the plaything of a few politics nerds who didnt want their little club infiltrated by normal people who would dilute their power. They’ve done it, congrats to them, another nail in the coffin of democracy.

There is only one reason people voted brexit, trump, Johnson. When people feel powerless, they make more extreme decisions. Keir Starmer is making people feel powerless again and it will have repercussions. This is a treaty of versailles moment, Starmer is clemenceau. Not satisfied with ousting Corbyn he has made a martyr of him and publicly humiliated the movement. For what? Arent we supposed to be on the same side?

Yes, Labour took a massive step to the left, new members came in etc. And ultimately the party under Corbyn's leadership handed over a 60+ seat to the Tories. Yes new members may have turned the party further to the left, but also made it unelectable. Being on the same side works both ways - Corbyn's leadership turned into a disaster and look where that's left us. He tried, he ended up failing spectacularly. And this is ultimately the issue in that there is no pragmatism on the far left, only idealism and a denial of the fact that to effect change you have to get into power. Labour became a protest party rather than a viable alternative. Corbyn lost great swathes of Labour heartland, half a million new members means nothing if you're yelling into an echo chamber. 

How is Starmer the villain in all this? Corbyn's leadership was a failure and all he had to do was acknowledge the report's findings and let everyone move on. Instead he wants to rip open the war wounds, and for what gain? To try and save face? This whole 'woe is me' from the far left is what will cost Labour in the future. Corbyn had 4/5 years, showed an abject failure in leadership in the 2016 referendum and then allowed Boris and then handed Boris a 60 seat majority on a platter in 2019. I supported Corbyn and am politically aligned with him on a lot of issues but its time to let it go. His tenure as leadership showed that the idealistic, far left approach just isn't tenable with the current political system we have. All he had to do to allow the party to move on and press forwards was to acknowledge the report and its findings and say no further. Instead he's decided to rip open the whole wound once again, for what? To save face? Starmer had no choice but to take decisive action. The buck stops with Corbyn, and what he has said today only reaffirms the content of that report.

[steviewevie]

and Corbyn doesn't wear his mask properly.

[priest17]

I think what the left are missing is if Corbyn was so great why wasn't there a Corbyn 2 🤔

 

That works on multiple levels, I'm very clever.

[stuartbert two hats]

3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

and Corbyn doesn't wear his mask properly.

That's true. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

6 minutes ago, kingbadger said:

Yes, Labour took a massive step to the left, new members came in etc. And ultimately the party under Corbyn's leadership handed over a 60+ seat to the Tories. Yes new members may have turned the party further to the left, but also made it unelectable. Being on the same side works both ways - Corbyn's leadership turned into a disaster and look where that's left us. He tried, he ended up failing spectacularly. And this is ultimately the issue in that there is no pragmatism on the far left, only idealism and a denial of the fact that to effect change you have to get into power. Labour became a protest party rather than a viable alternative. Corbyn lost great swathes of Labour heartland, half a million new members means nothing if you're yelling into an echo chamber. 

How is Starmer the villain in all this? Corbyn's leadership was a failure and all he had to do was acknowledge the report's findings and let everyone move on. Instead he wants to rip open the war wounds, and for what gain? To try and save face? This whole 'woe is me' from the far left is what will cost Labour in the future. Corbyn had 4/5 years, showed an abject failure in leadership in the 2016 referendum and then allowed Boris and then handed Boris a 60 seat majority on a platter in 2019. I supported Corbyn and am politically aligned with him on a lot of issues but its time to let it go. His tenure as leadership showed that the idealistic, far left approach just isn't tenable with the current political system we have. All he had to do to allow the party to move on and press forwards was to acknowledge the report and its findings and say no further. Instead he's decided to rip open the whole wound once again, for what? To save face? Starmer had no choice but to take decisive action. The buck stops with Corbyn, and what he has said today only reaffirms the content of that report.

Out of upvotes but agree with this pretty much word for word. Idealism is nice but pragmatism is what wins elections. 

Really interesting debate in here today, thanks all. Busy day so just catching up! 

[Ozanne]

Just now, priest17 said:

I think what the left are missing is if Corbyn was so great why wasn't there a Corbyn 2 🤔

 

That works on multiple levels, I'm very clever.

Corbyn 2 electric boogaloo?

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Corbyn 2 electric boogaloo?

 

[priest17]

6 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Corbyn 2 electric boogaloo?

2 Corbyn 2 anti-Semitic

 

Edit this is not a political statement but a homage to my favourite film saga with a fun political twist assisted by a substantial meal.

Edited October 29, 2020 by priest17

[Fuzzy Afro]

Let the nail, meet the head 

[Leyrulion]

This quote by Preston was quite good

 

"...Starmer had dug his enormous bear trap only to find that Corbyn had dived headfirst into it just as he was shouting ‘watch out!’."

 

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/keir-starmer-has-shown-he-s-serious-about-winning-power/amp?__twitter_impression=true

 

 

[zahidf]

I wrote a poem about how I feel

"An ode to a hero

 

""Oh Jeremy corbyn" we sang at the top of our voice

For the first time you gave the voiceless a choice

But Judas in his suit and tie

Helped spread a Tory lie

And across the land the cowards rejoice"

 

I may not be 100% serious

[SheffJeff]

Out of interest do we know what Starmers views on Palestine are?  I can already guess what Boris's are. 

[Leyrulion]

2 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Out of interest do we know what Starmers views on Palestine are?  I can already guess what Boris's are. 

Why is this relevant today?

[steviewevie]

 

[Fuzzy Afro]

2 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Out of interest do we know what Starmers views on Palestine are?  I can already guess what Boris's are. 

Not relevant. 

[SheffJeff]

Just now, Leyrulion said:

Why is this relevant today?

Becuase alot of people confuse anti zionism with anti semitism.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, Leyrulion said:

Why is this relevant today?

I’m out of Greenies but I owe you one 

[Ozanne]

What with the rising cases of COVID and the EHRC report into Labour, I'm just grateful that NASA chose this week to announce that I can live on the moon.

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, SheffJeff said:

Becuase alot of people confuse anti zionism with anti semitism.

^^^ Anti Semite found 

[priest17]

2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

What with the rising cases of COVID and the EHRC report into Labour, I'm just grateful that NASA chose this week to announce that I can live on the moon.

The moon is an egg about to hatch so watch yourself.

[steviewevie]

1 minute ago, priest17 said:

The moon is an egg about to hatch so watch yourself.

No it isn't.

Is it?