When will this shit end?

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

You've missed the point then, because I'm not suggesting that large scale gigs or sporting events would even be back, I'd just like to be allowed to visit my parents and friends legally.

But you've been against measures around closing businesses too, and using the economic argument for that. 

I think had we kept pubs etc. closed, transmission rates would be similar to current T1 areas across the UK, where you can still see family and friends.

Honestly, the fact that you can't do that in much of the UK at the moment is *because* people like yourself have been agitating for opening things up and having reduced restrictions. Had we just continued being cautions we'd probably all be able to see our families right now. But no, pubs had to re-open, can't live without them.

[hfuhruhurr]

On the testing front and re: rapid tests, it's time v. accuracy. Basically with variations of the gold standard PCR test there's some chemistry involved that requires heat and time. If you want accuracy that matches sending off to the lab, then you need to cook for around 90 minutes. Less than that and you have less virus DNA to measure and so false negatives. There's no avoiding the chemistry in this type of test.

There are other tests coming along but none accurate enough at the mo.

[Ozanne]

12 hours ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

The idea would be that we put a maximum date on restrictions. If no vaccine by then, scrap them anyway and let everyone get on with their lives 

You said this, which would imply that you want all restrictions over and people getting on with their lives. Then when someone asked you ‘So every man for themself?’ You replied with ‘Yep’.

Your comments last night indicate that it isn’t just about you seeing your parents. Scrapping restrictions would mean large scale events are back. It’s more likely you are trying to backtrack. 

[DeanoL]

21 hours ago, squirrelarmy said:

For coach travellers who have spent hours alongside a covid positive person it could be. You can also spend a lot of time waiting to get in depending on your time of arrival. If a person next to you tests positive how would you want the stewards to deal with you. 
 

At the gate testing isn’t going to happen. 

I think some festivals would and could pull this off, but Glastonbury isn't one of them. Too many people, too many public transport arrivals, not a great record in manage entry queues as is. It's one of the reasons I don't expect 2021 to be on.

[gigpusher]

55 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I really don't understand how we are still so far behind in the UK in this regard?

Other countries (Dubai springs to mind as one i've read of recently) are doing rapid testing / results.

We're supposed to be one of the world's leading yet we're eating everyone else's dust!

Yep we seem so far behind it's frightening. 

[st dan]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But you've been against measures around closing businesses too, and using the economic argument for that. 

I think had we kept pubs etc. closed, transmission rates would be similar to current T1 areas across the UK, where you can still see family and friends.

Honestly, the fact that you can't do that in much of the UK at the moment is *because* people like yourself have been agitating for opening things up and having reduced restrictions. Had we just continued being cautions we'd probably all be able to see our families right now. But no, pubs had to re-open, can't live without them.

I think most people realise the pubs etc need to open for the sake of the economy and protecting people’s jobs and livelihoods. I don’t think the majority want them open just so they can go and get pissed with their friends like they used to. 
In an ideal world, with an unlimited pot of money, then of course everything none essential would be kept closed until there was a working vaccine. But it’s really not that simple is it. 

Edited October 19, 2020 by st dan

[Havors]

3 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

On the testing front and re: rapid tests, it's time v. accuracy. Basically with variations of the gold standard PCR test there's some chemistry involved that requires heat and time. If you want accuracy that matches sending off to the lab, then you need to cook for around 90 minutes. Less than that and you have less virus DNA to measure and so false negatives. There's no avoiding the chemistry in this type of test.

There are other tests coming along but none accurate enough at the mo.

Those PCR tests error rates are already worryingly way too high... never mind expedited quick tests... 

[JoeyT]

4 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

On the testing front and re: rapid tests, it's time v. accuracy. Basically with variations of the gold standard PCR test there's some chemistry involved that requires heat and time. If you want accuracy that matches sending off to the lab, then you need to cook for around 90 minutes. Less than that and you have less virus DNA to measure and so false negatives. There's no avoiding the chemistry in this type of test.

There are other tests coming along but none accurate enough at the mo.

Don't know why but this made me immediately think of breaking bad 

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I looked into this and there are some details here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021/changes-to-vat-treatment-of-overseas-goods-sold-to-customers-from-1-january-2021

It seems kinda fucked to be but would be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks. As far as I can see, what they're calling VAT is really just a tariff on all goods entering the country.

Can't really see how it's going to work. I reckon most overseas sellers will just refuse to play along, because there's no obligation to enforce and collect tax for another country. They'll tell the buyer "it's your country, it's your tax to sort out".

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

But you've been against measures around closing businesses too, and using the economic argument for that. 

I think had we kept pubs etc. closed, transmission rates would be similar to current T1 areas across the UK, where you can still see family and friends.

Honestly, the fact that you can't do that in much of the UK at the moment is *because* people like yourself have been agitating for opening things up and having reduced restrictions. Had we just continued being cautions we'd probably all be able to see our families right now. But no, pubs had to re-open, can't live without them.

I don’t really care whether businesses are open or not tbh 

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

You said this, which would imply that you want all restrictions over and people getting on with their lives. Then when someone asked you ‘So every man for themself?’ You replied with ‘Yep’.

Your comments last night indicate that it isn’t just about you seeing your parents. Scrapping restrictions would mean large scale events are back. It’s more likely you are trying to backtrack. 

Well I want a maximum date for restrictions, maybe in 6 months time or so, where we give up on waiting for a vaccine and get on with life. But in the mean time, I think everyone should be allowed to see family and friends without restrictions. 

[hfuhruhurr]

5 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Don't know why but this made me immediately think of breaking bad 

Always respect the chemistry!

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Thanks. As far as I can see, what they're calling VAT is really just a tariff on all goods entering the country.

Can't really see how it's going to work. I reckon most overseas sellers will just refuse to play along, because there's no obligation to enforce and collect tax for another country. They'll tell the buyer "it's your country, it's your tax to sort out".

That was my first thought but then there are laws that bind companies doing business in other countries - GDPR springs to mind as that hit all companies that had any data from European citizens. Likewise you have a fill out a customs declaration to send goods over here. Probably health and safety rules too.

I'm trying to find out if any other companies work in the same way. One thing I have noticed backing various things on Kickstarter is there are usually a few countries where they just don't ship to. I don't know why, but it's the same few that come up again and again. I wonder if we could end up being in the same boat of "not worth the trouble".

[DeanoL]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Well I want a maximum date for restrictions, maybe in 6 months time or so, where we give up on waiting for a vaccine and get on with life. But in the mean time, I think everyone should be allowed to see family and friends without restrictions. 

You literally just told me that by "get on with life" you meant see friends and family, not have gigs and stuff. 

But now you're saying you want that now, with something else in six months' time? 

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Well I want a maximum date for restrictions, maybe in 6 months time or so, where we give up on waiting for a vaccine and get on with life. But in the mean time, I think everyone should be allowed to see family and friends without restrictions. 

So you do you think large events should be back on in 6 months without restrictions, not what you said to DeanoL.

6 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I don’t really care whether businesses are open or not tbh 

This isn’t a very nice view point. We should care about other people’s business and livelihoods. Your only priority in all of this is you being able to see who you want to, not what’s best for everyone. 

[eFestivals]

5 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

Likewise you have a fill out a customs declaration to send goods over here.

that's not really anything of any consequence. It's quickly writing a few words on a form.

Which is quite different to changing your sales systems, logging on to the UK govt system, and paying the UK govt some money.

I don't doubt there'll be some who do it, the value of their trade will make it worthwhile. But for plenty of others it's just a hassle that's won't be worth their while.

PS: I guess it'll stop carousel fraud, which won't be a bad thing.

Edited October 19, 2020 by eFestivals

[steviewevie]

59 minutes ago, st dan said:

https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-global-data

Found this a great read. 

that is one groovy website.

[steviewevie]

7 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Well I want a maximum date for restrictions, maybe in 6 months time or so, where we give up on waiting for a vaccine and get on with life. But in the mean time, I think everyone should be allowed to see family and friends without restrictions. 

you can't always get what you want.

Without a vaccine there may never be getting back to normal. Actually even with a vaccine there may never be getting back to normal, but hopefully there will for most of us.

[DeanoL]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

that's not really anything of any consequence. It's quickly writing a few words on a form.

Which is quite different to changing your sales systems, logging on to the UK govt system, and paying the UK govt some money.

Yeah the point was it's still a legal requirement being forced on someone outside the UK by the UK government - so the mechanics exist to have a law in place (and to reject goods on entry).

I think it's actually a huge erosion of our freedoms. We previously had the right to import goods personally. We don't any more (unless they're over £135).

[Ozanne]

Haha

[DeanoL]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This isn’t a very nice view point. We should care about other people’s business and livelihoods. Your only priority in all of this is you being able to see who you want to, not what’s best for everyone. 

I don't think that's fair, they've certainly been pushing for businesses to re-open also. I think they're struggling with a philosophical desire to see things re-open and "return to normal" as soon as possible, against a personal desire to see their own family.

For the first time now, those two desires are not the same thing, because we're having to face up to the fact that trying to "return to normal" over the summer is actually the reason many of us can't see our families right now. 

Whereas before the two ideas were in lockstep, as "end lockdown" meant both being able to see family again and have businesses reopen.

[squirrelarmy]

MP for Bolton hospitalised with Covid. 
 

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-greater-manchester-mp-yasmin-qureshi-hospitalised-with-covid-19-12108304

[Copperface]

22 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

 

PS: I guess it'll stop carousel fraud, which won't be a bad thing.

Be interesting to see how they try to clamp down on that when they start messing around and introducing freeports.

[eFestivals]

6 minutes ago, Copperface said:

Be interesting to see how they try to clamp down on that when they start messing around and introducing freeports.

freeports won't happen. If they were such a fantastic thing we wouldn't have given up the ones we used to have. 

They only get mentioned as one of the fantasy benefits because there are no actual benefits.  

[Copperface]

13 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

freeports won't happen. If they were such a fantastic thing we wouldn't have given up the ones we used to have. 

They only get mentioned as one of the fantasy benefits because there are no actual benefits.  

Let's hope so, but they do seem to be cracking on with them, including bidding processes.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-outlines-new-plans-for-freeports-to-turbo-charge-post-brexit-trade