When will this shit end?

[Mr.Tease]

8 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

If that's true it's almost not a problem because you can let those people go out and get herd immunity and die where necessary to create the herd immunity while the rest of us stay inside and safe while they do it.

Unfortunately I imagine the reality is that a lot of those preaching "herd immunity" mean that other people should go out and get it, while they continue to work from home, and aren't worried about hospital capacity if they do get it because of their private healthcare. I'd love to see how many of those in favour of herd immunity were still in favour of it if it was "there's going to be a lottery, and 70% of people will be picked and have it squirted up their nose".

That was in reference to the idea of bringing furlough back just for industries that were forced to close in lockdown.

(Although the new, much less generous November scheme doesn't have any restrictions around people being previously on furlough, as far as I can see?)

Yep, I've said before, only people who think they wouldn't die from it (or anyone they care about) advocate it. Sadly led by the newspapers barons who fear their papers going bust while they relax on their isolated islands, and pushed by opinion writers who work from home or could easily retreat to their big houses if things get out of hand, all lapped up by people who can't be arsed making effort anymore and those who think everything is 'making a big deal about nothing'. 

The daft thing is (apart from making such a decision now when the vaccine data is so close) is we're not even just limited to two choices, but alas we have such a crap media we'll never have any sort of worthwhile discussion about the various options available :

 

 

[fraybentos1]

1 hour ago, Spindles said:

Now far be it from me to suggest that it was a stupid idea to send kids and students back to educational settings, or that this is the key driver to this wave.....

Students I get should have been able to stay at home. But school kids? What is the alternative to sending them back to school? They have already lost enough education as it is.

[Fuzzy Afro]

If this goes on for a few years I could see it becoming a bit of a culture war. I could quite easily see a populist movement telling everyone that they’re fed up of those pesky expert scientists and ultimately you could have a political party running for government on a promise to repeal all restrictions. It’s quite Brexity in nature really. 

[Fuzzy Afro]

Peston confirms what the sun were reporting yesterday. Hospitality in the north of England is about to get the red card. 

[Mr.Tease]

2 hours ago, RobertProsineckisLighter said:

Exactly. I'm not saying don't take it seriously, don't follow the rules etc... But if you are sensible, you can have some sort of life. There are some frustrations, like I aired myself over the weekend. 

I just think there needs to be some sort of context put around these numbers. It's 200 and something cases per 100k where I live or 1 in 1000. At the moment I probably stand within 5 metres of a handful of people a day and that includes collecting a child from school - the odds are stacked in my favour. 

If I catch it I catch it, it's not going to be through recklessness on my part, it could be due to a lapse of concentration or letting your guard down briefly but that's not recklessness. We have already lost most of a year to this shit, it's time to start living with it. 

It's Kublor Ross in action at a national scale. 

Why is it time to decide to give up and start living with it before you've had the vaccine results that are a few weeks away? - I'd just like to hear the logic

Bit insulting to cite Kubler Ross who spent their life working with the vulnerable and advocating better care of terminally ill people and listening to their needs, the very people who get thrown under a bus under the 'we've just got to live with it' strategy. 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

If this goes on for a few years I could see it becoming a bit of a culture war. I could quite easily see a populist movement telling everyone that they’re fed up of those pesky expert scientists and ultimately you could have a political party running for government on a promise to repeal all restrictions. It’s quite Brexity in nature really. 

I think it's obvious that restrictive measures can't go on forever.

But at the moment a vaccine is in sight so it's worth hanging in there until that arrives. If things happen like I'm hoping/expecting, then almost-back-to-normal should happen in the spring.

As it happens i just spoke to my 85 year old mother, who's going for her flu jab today - and they've set up a mass vaccination site about 10 miles from her place (so must be covering local population of 500k-1M or so) which I reckon is a trial for how they'll work the covid vaccine.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

As it happens i just spoke to my 85 year old mother, who's going for her flu jab today - and they've set up a mass vaccination site about 10 miles from her place (so must be covering local population of 500k-1M or so) which I reckon is a trial for how they'll work the covid vaccine.

ahhh, not quite as much population is covered by this as I was thinking - but it's probably getting on for 100k or so.

https://www.blackbusheairport.co.uk/drive-flu

Edited October 7, 2020 by eFestivals

[Fuzzy Afro]

I’m hearing Scotland will close pubs and bars, but allow cafes and restaurants to stay open but ban them from selling alcohol! They’re calling it the Sober October Circuit Breaker 

[JoeyT]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I think it's obvious that restrictive measures can't go on forever.

But at the moment a vaccine is in sight so it's worth hanging in there until that arrives. If things happen like I'm hoping/expecting, then almost-back-to-normal should happen in the spring.

As it happens i just spoke to my 85 year old mother, who's going for her flu jab today - and they've set up a mass vaccination site about 10 miles from her place (so must be covering local population of 500k-1M or so) which I reckon is a trial for how they'll work the covid vaccine.

My parents are in for their flu jabs on Saturday. Given very specific times like 11.26 & 11.28.

Mum seems to think every jab is 2 mins apart. Mind boggling to think how many a day they are doing if that's the case.

Like you say seems like a trial for a mass roll out although could also be how it's always been done...

[JoeyT]

Just now, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m hearing Scotland will close pubs and bars, but allow cafes and restaurants to stay open but ban them from selling alcohol! They’re calling it the Sober October Circuit Breaker 

I love how start some of your posts with "I'm hearing" or along the lines of "My sources tell me"

It's like sky sports news transfer deadline day, I've got images of you stood there with a microphone outside Downing street talking to the studio 

 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, JoeyT said:

Like you say seems like a trial for a mass roll out although could also be how it's always been done...

wasn't done for my mum like that last year.

Mind you, they weren't particularly needing to keep flu jab patients away from other medical cases last year.

[Spindles]

Just now, JoeyT said:

I love how start some of your posts with "I'm hearing" or along the lines of "My sources tell me"

"some people are saying <insert trump lie>.  Now I don't know, that's what I'm hearing.  Make of that what you will.  Sad!"

[Fuzzy Afro]

6 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

My parents are in for their flu jabs on Saturday. Given very specific times like 11.26 & 11.28.

Mum seems to think every jab is 2 mins apart. Mind boggling to think how many a day they are doing if that's the case.

Like you say seems like a trial for a mass roll out although could also be how it's always been done...

Should repurpose the drive in test centres as drive in vaccine centres.

[Toilet Duck]

7 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

My parents are in for their flu jabs on Saturday. Given very specific times like 11.26 & 11.28.

Mum seems to think every jab is 2 mins apart. Mind boggling to think how many a day they are doing if that's the case.

Like you say seems like a trial for a mass roll out although could also be how it's always been done...

They've actually changed the legislation here to allow Pharmacists to administer the jab off premises. As a result, they are setting up drive through flu vaccination centres to roll out a massive programme. Plan is to piggy back the COVID vaccine on that infrastructure once it becomes available. Seems like a reasonably good idea to me. 

[Mr.Tease]

15 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Peston confirms what the sun were reporting yesterday. Hospitality in the north of England is about to get the red card. 

Readwthat article he says the gvt are still deciding whether to offer financial support to businesses impacted by anither lockdown and likely this won't be decided before the lockdown because they're having a tussle about it. Why are they only thinking about this now?!?! What have they been doing for the past few months?! 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

2 hours ago, mikegday said:

535 for me, so I think so - though mine says it’s rising 100 a day! In a competition you really don’t want to win!!

that analogy of the pyramid field was good, but it’s also not about just coming into contact with it. It’s the knock on effect to services. I might be on the pyramid field having the best days of my life, but if the med tent starts to fill up then I’m in trouble should I need it for sunstroke (NFR NFC)

 

I know it had it's short comings and it's not that simple, it was more to paint a picture that 100k people is a shit tonne of people.

[Quark]

Just now, Toilet Duck said:

They've actually changed the legislation here to allow Pharmacists to administer the jab off premises. As a result, they are setting up drive through flu vaccination centres to roll out a massive programme. Plan is to piggy back the COVID vaccine on that infrastructure once it becomes available. Seems like a reasonably good idea to me. 

Is there any reason why a flu jab and a C-19 jab couldn't (or wouldn't) be given at the same time if it becomes available and flu jabs are still happening?  Prob unlikely given timescales I know, but just made me wonder.

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

18 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Peston confirms what the sun were reporting yesterday. Hospitality in the north of England is about to get the red card. 

I hope it's a bit more targeted than that... I'm due to the pub tomorrow.

[FestivalJamie]

17 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m hearing Scotland will close pubs and bars, but allow cafes and restaurants to stay open but ban them from selling alcohol! They’re calling it the Sober October Circuit Breaker 

Wouldn’t be surprised if this was true

[FestivalJamie]

25 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Peston confirms what the sun were reporting yesterday. Hospitality in the north of England is about to get the red card. 

The whole of north is shutting down hospitality?

[Toilet Duck]

8 minutes ago, Quark said:

Is there any reason why a flu jab and a C-19 jab couldn't (or wouldn't) be given at the same time if it becomes available and flu jabs are still happening?  Prob unlikely given timescales I know, but just made me wonder.

So, some vaccines can interfere with each other. Many don't and are administered together, but it needs to be tested in a clinical trial to make sure. Obviously focus at the moment is on getting a vaccine (any vaccine!) over the line, but once approved, there will certainly be trials exploring bundling with other vaccines that may target the same population at similar times of the year. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

19 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

Why is it time to decide to give up and start living with it before you've had the vaccine results that are a few weeks away? - I'd just like to hear the logic

Bit insulting to cite Kubler Ross who spent their life working with the vulnerable and advocating better care of terminally ill people and listening to their needs, the very people who get thrown under a bus under the 'we've just got to live with it' strategy. 

I think your misinterpreting live with it to throwing with the precautions out of the window. 

We still need to have precautions in place we just need to start to accept they are hear to stay certainly for the medium term - a vaccine doesn't make it go away. 

There are people on this thread at different stages of the change curve that was the point I'm making. @FestivalJamie strikes me very much in the despair stage at the moment, me I'm more in a stage of acceptance and starting to adopt the new norm. There are plenty of people in the wider world who are firmly in the denial stage... Hence the reference I made. 

As such learning to live with it, doesn't mean throwing people under the bus it's learning to live with the current circumstances and restrictions not throw it all away. Vaccine or no vaccine life has changed forever and I'm accepting of that now. Happy about it, not really but I accept it.

[Ozanne]

26 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I’m hearing Scotland will close pubs and bars, but allow cafes and restaurants to stay open but ban them from selling alcohol! They’re calling it the Sober October Circuit Breaker 

By ‘hearing’ you mean you read it on Twitter or in the news?

[Quark]

4 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

So, some vaccines can interfere with each other. Many don't and are administered together, but it needs to be tested in a clinical trial to make sure. Obviously focus at the moment is on getting a vaccine (any vaccine!) over the line, but once approved, there will certainly be trials exploring bundling with other vaccines that may target the same population at similar times of the year. 

Figured that might be the case.  So for argument's sake we could see a future where C-19 and flu jabs are administered at the same time for the winter season, depending on whether C-19 dies out or just becomes something we do learn to live with.

Interesting. 

[RobertProsineckisLighter]

12 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

The whole of north is shutting down hospitality?

It will be the end for most of the pubs and restaurants where I live if that happens they are already operating really reduced hours on top of the curfew... 

Doesn't matter though does it, it's only the north...