When will this shit end?

[fatyeti24]

6 minutes ago, st dan said:

Would be interesting to see a poll of pub landlords to see if they would rather be forced to close (with furlough continuing) vs remaining open with these new restrictions. 

I'm not a pub landlord but I do work in hospitality. 

Any time the government want to pay me to not work is fine by me. 

[foolee]

11 minutes ago, st dan said:

Would be interesting to see a poll of pub landlords to see if they would rather be forced to close (with furlough continuing) vs remaining open with these new restrictions. 

The government can't keep paying people to sit at home though, this will all need to be paid back at some point therefore trying to keep people in work if possible is the best option. 

[Ryan1984]

10 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Does everything have to close by 10, or just pubs and restaurants?

Just interested would uni freshers events have to shut down by 10 for example, and also things like casinos?

Yeah, I was going to say about cinema and gyms etc. Do they close at 10 on the dot now as well?

[Fuzzy Afro]

Just now, Ryan1984 said:

Yeah, I was going to say about cinema and gyms etc. Do they close at 10 on the dot now as well?

I can’t imagine so, because people aren’t drunk there. No reason to think people would do any less distancing after 10 in those settings 

[zahidf]

 

 

[FestivalJamie]

6 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Yeah, I was going to say about cinema and gyms etc. Do they close at 10 on the dot now as well?

Hmmm now I’m confused.

5 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

I can’t imagine so, because people aren’t drunk there. No reason to think people would do any less distancing after 10 in those settings 

In my home town they have freshers parties on til 2am so surely these are restricted?

[eFestivals]

14 minutes ago, foolee said:

The government can't keep paying people to sit at home though

actually, it's really cheap compared to other things.

And don't forget, they'll be having to payout similar amounts if the people on furlough are shifted to being people on the dole.

[5co77ie]

18 minutes ago, foolee said:

The government can't keep paying people to sit at home though, this will all need to be paid back at some point therefore trying to keep people in work if possible is the best option. 

exactly as Neil says above the shift to dole payments is pretty comparable - and of course if we stopped paying for trident that would free up £2.75 billion a year.

[foolee]

2 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

actually, it's really cheap compared to other things.

And don't forget, they'll be having to payout similar amounts if the people on furlough are shifted to being people on the dole.

Surely it's an additional cost they don't need to be paying and paying people 80% for the next 6-12 months is going to cost the government more than people being on the dole. I know there are more costs involved but it's cheaper than 1-2k per month per person

[Fuzzy Afro]

8 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Hmmm now I’m confused.

In my home town they have freshers parties on til 2am so surely these are restricted?

Sorry I was talking about cinemas and gyms. Freshers parties will get stopped at 10 I think 

[zahidf]

Oof

 

[5co77ie]

Gyms and leisure facilities are currently as I type putting forward the case to be allowed to stay open - the final decision on gyms won't be known until 8pm - for those of us that run sports clubs it's a nail biting next few hours.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2020/09/21/gyms-leisure-centres-pushing-stay-exempt-new-lockdown/

[st dan]

4 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

exactly as Neil says above the shift to dole payments is pretty comparable - and of course if we stopped paying for trident that would free up £2.75 billion a year.

Also dole payments have an indefinite end date, whereas furlough can be planned and budgeted for future years.
Really wouldn’t be surprised to hear an announcement on extending the scheme for the hospitality sector in the coming weeks, and pubs and restaurants being forced to close again. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by st dan

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, 5co77ie said:

Gyms and leisure facilities are currently as I type putting forward the case to be allowed to stay open - the final decision on gyms won't be known until 8pm - for those of us that run sports clubs it's a nail biting next few hours.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2020/09/21/gyms-leisure-centres-pushing-stay-exempt-new-lockdown/

Closing gyms would be such a dumb policy. Take away the place that people go to avoid obesity and then act surprised when the mortality rates goes up. Wow 

[squirrelarmy]

@foolee once you start calculating for housing benefit and other needs as well as admin costs it does start to add up when you’re subsidising wages. It also would depend if you’re on minimum wage or not. 
 

I was earning vastly more on furlough even at 80% than I would have been if I was on UC or whatever they call it now and with my housing costs covered. I actually managed to clear some debts because I wasn’t going anywhere so my monthly spend dropped by a significant amount.  
 

Someone furloughed from a minimum wage job would struggle. Even worse if they are on a zero hour contract. 

[5co77ie]

Just now, st dan said:

Also dole payments have an indefinite end date, whereas furlough can be planned and budgeted for future years.
Really wouldn’t be surprised to hear an announcement on extending the scheme for the hospitality sector in the coming weeks. 

To be honest I think the hospitality industry closedown is a right Tory mates back scratching - many pub and restaurant chains ran their businesses with no cases. However Tim Wetherspoon's empire had 22 establishments epicentre outbreaks, so to ensure their mates uneasy alliance stays on board - they thought they'd level the playing field by tarring the competition as well.

[5co77ie]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Closing gyms would be such a dumb policy. Take away the place that people go to avoid obesity and then act surprised when the mortality rates goes up. Wow 

judging by the other Nations the sectors being looked at are the sectors where outbreaks have occurred. Wasn't it the Welsh who read their whole list out of sectors where transmission occurred - and how they intended to mitigate it, wish the English would be a bit more transparent like that.

[eFestivals]

7 minutes ago, foolee said:

Surely it's an additional cost they don't need to be paying and paying people 80% for the next 6-12 months is going to cost the government more than people being on the dole. I know there are more costs involved but it's cheaper than 1-2k per month per person

it's not only dole vs furlough as the cost comparison, tho.

If jobs collapse, the govt will be paying out on dole for a lot longer than they'll need to pay furlough. Then there's the costs of creating new jobs, lost tax revenues from many directions, etc, etc, etc.

I've got my fingers crossed that a furlough extension will be announced, although I'm not expecting that before the start of October as the govt will want to reduce the furlough numbers as much as possible, and it might also be limited by sector.

(if they do sectors, then it's hugely likely that 'entertainment' will be one of them ... but I'm not hopeful of this entertainment-based website being included in whatever criteria they use  )

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, 5co77ie said:

Gyms and leisure facilities are currently as I type putting forward the case to be allowed to stay open - the final decision on gyms won't be known until 8pm - for those of us that run sports clubs it's a nail biting next few hours.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2020/09/21/gyms-leisure-centres-pushing-stay-exempt-new-lockdown/

Wouldn't this be announced in Parliament at 12.30?

[FakeEmpire]

Re furlough vs dole, it's also about people spending.   Those on more modest incomes keep the economy afloat. When 'normal' people have a few extra quid, they spend it, which benefits everyone. When the rich have extra money, they save it.

Ensuring people continue to have an income means they keep spending and putting money back into the economy when we need it.  It's a worthwhile investment in terms of economic recovery - much more so than, say, giving people £5 off a burger.

If people don't have spare cash, they stop spending, which means more redundancies, more people no longer spending and so the cycle continues.

Extending the furlough scheme, or moving to some sort of universal basic income, is a no brainer in terms of keeping the economy ticking over.

[foolee]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

it's not only dole vs furlough as the cost comparison, tho.

If jobs collapse, the govt will be paying out on dole for a lot longer than they'll need to pay furlough. Then there's the costs of creating new jobs, lost tax revenues from many directions, etc, etc, etc.

I've got my fingers crossed that a furlough extension will be announced, although I'm not expecting that before the start of October as the govt will want to reduce the furlough numbers as much as possible, and it might also be limited by sector.

(if they do sectors, then it's hugely likely that 'entertainment' will be one of them ... but I'm not hopeful of this entertainment-based website being included in whatever criteria they use  )

That makes sense.

I think it makes sense to get as many people as possible working and let a scheme continue for the jobs that really need it. Rather than certain businesses basically takings the piss out of the system when they earn a healthy profit every year and were still doing so through most of covid-19 with the exception of complete lockdown. I understand the entertainment industry need it as they can't really run businesses with social distancing or working from home so there should be a scheme for that. I just don't like that some businesses are using it to their advantage and a chance at getting employees to work harder to see if they can make redundancies. 

[5co77ie]

10 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Wouldn't this be announced in Parliament at 12.30?

you'd have thought so - but Boris doesn't always tell Parliament everything - but that is why I put next few hours.

[Lycra]

37 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

I'm guessing the government hoped it would be over by now, but as it's not and it looks like we're in the "new normal" for quite a long time, the free market kicks in? 

The issue for government is the old normal has gone and we are in a transition period to a new normal which will emerge of the pandemic is over. How much of the old normal survives  evolving to the new normal is a huge issue for government.

[squirrelarmy]

Just now, 5co77ie said:

you'd have thought so - but Boris doesn't always tell Parliament everything - but that is why I put next few hours.

You mean DC hasn’t told Boris everything yet. 

[5co77ie]

8 minutes ago, FakeEmpire said:

Re furlough vs dole, it's also about people spending.   Those on more modest incomes keep the economy afloat. When 'normal' people have a few extra quid, they spend it, which benefits everyone. When the rich have extra money, they save it.

Ensuring people continue to have an income means they keep spending and putting money back into the economy when we need it.  It's a worthwhile investment in terms of economic recovery - much more so than, say, giving people £5 off a burger.

If people don't have spare cash, they stop spending, which means more redundancies, more people no longer spending and so the cycle continues.

Extending the furlough scheme, or moving to some sort of universal basic income, is a no brainer in terms of keeping the economy ticking over.

Exactly = let's just give everyone a Universal Basic Income forever - no more furlough, no more dole - much better plan.