When will this shit end?

[Fuzzy Afro]

18 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I think the issue is the sheer amount of scaremongering which has gone on leaving all teachers in an impossible situation:

1. Classify standard cold symptoms as what they are, keep child in class, risk a public hanging if it turns out to be covid + lots of others are then infected.

2. Send child home and not risk any of the above yet get pulled apart when there is a lack of tests!

I think it's an absolute disgrace that my Wife is now in this lose - lose situation.

It’s not a disgrace and it’s not a “lose - lose” situation. It really is quite simple, send them home if they have Covid symptoms and don’t bother if they don’t have covid symptoms. The only “public hanging” would be if you kept a child in who had Covid symptoms. 

[JoeyT]

1 minute ago, mcshed said:

I'm not sure this is a lose-lose situation, it seems fairly clear don't send kids home unless they are exhibiting actual COVID symptoms. People understand there is a pandemic and when some kids get it the teachers aren't in the firing line.

It's all well and good saying that but both a cold and covid are closely linked on a couple of symptoms and given most of us won't have had covid if you're asked to make a judgment call you're more likely to play it safe are you not?

Let's also not forget teachers in charge of 30 kids are also educating the children, ensuring that they wash / sterilise hands multiple times a day and are now asked to effectively play doctor.

 

[mcshed]

3 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

It's all well and good saying that but both a cold and covid are closely linked on a couple of symptoms and given most of us won't have had covid if you're asked to make a judgment call you're more likely to play it safe are you not?

• a new, continuous cough – this means coughing a lot for more than an hour, or 3 or more coughing episodes in 24 hours (if you usually have a cough, it may be worse than usual)

[zahidf]

You see this toilet duck?

https://www.pittwire.pitt.edu/news/pitt-scientists-discover-tiny-antibody-component-highly-effective-preventing-and-treating-sars

[JoeyT]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

It’s not a disgrace and it’s not a “lose - lose” situation. It really is quite simple, send them home if they have Covid symptoms and don’t bother if they don’t have covid symptoms. The only “public hanging” would be if you kept a child in who had Covid symptoms. 

What would your opinion of a teacher be if you had a child who was in a class with another who due to only showing mild covid (in other words common cold) symptoms wasn't sent home and then went on to catch it.

What if your child then passed it on to you and God forbid it ended up with either you or another family member dying?

There are over a hundred thousand negative tests a day of which lots of those will be adults who don't know the difference between a cold and covid yet teachers are expected to know the difference...

[Ozanne]

I think it’s probably wise to take the commentary of someone that’s married to a Teacher, they’d have decent exposure to what they go through on a daily basis in schools. 

[mcshed]

8 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

Let's also not forget teachers in charge of 30 kids are also educating the children, ensuring that they wash / sterilise hands multiple times a day and are now asked to effectively play doctor.

But we are saying they shouldn't be playing doctor they should be focusing on teaching the kids.

[JoeyT]

1 minute ago, mcshed said:

But we are saying they shouldn't be playing doctor they should be focusing on teaching the kids.

I quite agree.

However they have to make a judgement as they have a duty of care to the other children so its either take a risk with a potentially bad outcome by keeping a possible infection in school or play it safe.

All I'm trying to say is they are currently being blamed by the government for taking the safe route because children are being tested more but we all know what would happen if they were too laid back with things and it was the catalyst for an outbreak.

[mcshed]

Just now, JoeyT said:

I quite agree.

However they have to make a judgement as they have a duty of care to the other children so its either take a risk with a potentially bad outcome by keeping a possible infection in school or play it safe.

All I'm trying to say is they are currently being blamed by the government for taking the safe route because children are being tested more but we all know what would happen if they were too laid back with things and it was the catalyst for an outbreak.

I don't care about testing demand that is the Government's responsibility, I do care about my kid's education which won't happen if every child who coughs is sent home from school.

If a parent is comfortable with schools having reopened it seems to me they are comfortable with the risk of infection which is very low.

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, JoeyT said:

I quite agree.

However they have to make a judgement as they have a duty of care to the other children so its either take a risk with a potentially bad outcome by keeping a possible infection in school or play it safe.

All I'm trying to say is they are currently being blamed by the government for taking the safe route because children are being tested more but we all know what would happen if they were too laid back with things and it was the catalyst for an outbreak.

I agree, Teachers and Schools in general are being treated pretty harshly for what must be a really tough situation all round. It’s also worth noting that they have the kids to think about plus any anxiety about their own health and the virus. I feel for them with some of the pressure they are under.

I also wonder if the grief they are getting is from parents or just people that like to pass comment when they aren’t anyway near the situation at all. 

[Toilet Duck]

4 minutes ago, zahidf said:

You see this toilet duck?

https://www.pittwire.pitt.edu/news/pitt-scientists-discover-tiny-antibody-component-highly-effective-preventing-and-treating-sars

Yeah, read about it a while back, good to see that the pre-clinical data has now been published in Cell. Certainly has potential...As it happens, I was due to go to U Pitt in May to set up a joint PhD programme with them and their centre for antibody therapeutics was one of the areas we had planned on including in the programme. Some seriously smart people there! (hoping to get over early next year as soon as we can safely fly again!).  They also have a COVID vaccine they have been developing that uses micro-needles for delivery (basically just a patch you pop on and the vaccine is delivered through the skin...very clever, much easier to ship and store too...we've just started a new programme with a nanomedicine centre in China to develop similar cancer and arthritis vaccines and drug delivery vehicles that time delivery based on circadian rhythms (I say we, I just run the programme, our chronobiology research group are doing the work!)). 

[Fuzzy Afro]

11 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I agree, Teachers and Schools in general are being treated pretty harshly for what must be a really tough situation all round. It’s also worth noting that they have the kids to think about plus any anxiety about their own health and the virus. I feel for them with some of the pressure they are under.

I also wonder if the grief they are getting is from parents or just people that like to pass comment when they aren’t anyway near the situation at all. 

Except it’s not a tough situation at all. Have Covid symptoms, send them home. Have a cold, don’t bother. The symptoms aren’t remotely the same.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Fuzzy Afro

[zahidf]

8 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Yeah, read about it a while back, good to see that the pre-clinical data has now been published in Cell. Certainly has potential...As it happens, I was due to go to U Pitt in May to set up a joint PhD programme with them and their centre for antibody therapeutics was one of the areas we had planned on including in the programme. Some seriously smart people there! (hoping to get over early next year as soon as we can safely fly again!).  They also have a COVID vaccine they have been developing that uses micro-needles for delivery (basically just a patch you pop on and the vaccine is delivered through the skin...very clever, much easier to ship and store too...we've just started a new programme with a nanomedicine centre in China to develop similar cancer and arthritis vaccines and drug delivery vehicles that time delivery based on circadian rhythms (I say we, I just run the programme, our chronobiology research group are doing the work!)). 

cool! have you heard anything about the Oxford vaccine stuff? not looking like we are getting back to normal without a vaccine now, herd immunity seems to be a dud

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Except it’s not a tough situation at all. Have Covid symptoms, send them home. Have a cold, don’t bother. The symptoms aren’t remotely the same.

 

The faux-outrage and imminent collapse of our entire testing system is being driven by the most “woe is me” group of professionals we have here in the UK: Teachers. They’ve probably figured out that if they get the schools shut again another 4 months extra paid holiday beckons. 

The collapse of the testing system is due to the fact we don’t have enough tests or the ability to process them  ... it’s not down to blaming parents or teachers for that matter who might be overzealous or cautious about a virus that can kill people through transmission onwards ... why the blame game ? That’s a government stance 

[Fuzzy Afro]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

The collapse of the testing system is due to the fact we don’t have enough tests or the ability to process them  ... it’s not down to blaming parents or teachers for that matter who might be overzealous or cautious about a virus that can kill people through transmission onwards ... why the blame game ? That’s a government stance 

Its certainly true that we need to be moving towards a world of twice a week testing for all teachers and children, IMO. 

[Toilet Duck]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Except it’s not a tough situation at all. Have Covid symptoms, send them home. Have a cold, don’t bother. The symptoms aren’t remotely the same.

 

The faux-outrage and imminent collapse of our entire testing system is being driven by the most “woe is me” group of professionals we have here in the UK: Teachers. They’ve probably figured out that if they get the schools shut again another 4 months extra paid holiday beckons. 

ok, wasn't going to weigh in...but, my wife too is a teacher and I can guarantee that another 4 months of being stuck at home rather than in school is at bottom of the list of things she'd like to happen. Far from woe is me, she went back in as soon as she was let and despite the risk to her personal health and those around her, didn't hesitate for a second. She's adapted to a difficult working environment and is just getting on with the job of teaching her kids (most stressed about non-COVID related stuff like fighting for adequate resource hours for the kids that need them and the myriad other things that she normally worries about when in school). Anyway, the "faux outrage" is a real logistical problem. There are significant overlaps between mild CoV symptoms and colds (and other respiratory problems), why do you think we are testing anyone? So, it's not an easy call to make, especially if you haven't been trained to do it. However, I do agree that the decision on whether a child can attend school (or should have a test) is one for for the medical profession and not teachers...but I wouldn't assume that teachers are looking for 4 months "off". 

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, Toilet Duck said:

ok, wasn't going to weigh in...but, my wife too is a teacher and I can guarantee that another 4 months of being stuck at home rather than in school is at bottom of the list of things she'd like to happen. Far from woe is me, she went back in as soon as she was let and despite the risk to her personal health and those around her, didn't hesitate for a second. She's adapted to a difficult working environment and is just getting on with the job of teaching her kids (most stressed about non-COVID related stuff like fighting for adequate resource hours for the kids that need them and the myriad other things that she normally worries about when in school). Anyway, the "faux outrage" is a real logistical problem. There are significant overlaps between mild CoV symptoms and colds (and other respiratory problems), why do you think we are testing anyone? So, it's not an easy call to make, especially if you haven't been trained to do it. However, I do agree that the decision on whether a child can attend school (or should have a test) is one for for the medical profession and not teachers...but I wouldn't assume that teachers are looking for 4 months "off". 

Yeah I’ve deleted the second half of that post because I was being a bit mean to teachers. I’ve no doubt it’s the teaching unions that are being a pain in the arse as opposed to individuals that probably want to get on with the job.

 

Twice a week testing for everyone in a school is the best approach 

[Toilet Duck]

9 minutes ago, zahidf said:

cool! have you heard anything about the Oxford vaccine stuff? not looking like we are getting back to normal without a vaccine now, herd immunity seems to be a dud

Don't really have an inside track the Oxford Vaccine, what comes out in the scientific press is generally at the same time as the regular press get hold of it, there just tends to be more detail in the scientific articles about it. The pause was short though, so I don't think it will massively interrupt the original timeline. Their interim analysis was planned for soon enough, so if they have had enough events, they be able to report it. Whether regulators accept that as sufficient to go ahead with emergency use authorisation is the next question, or if they want to wait for the full phase 3 report. 

[Toilet Duck]

2 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Yeah I’ve deleted the second half of that post because I was being a bit mean to teachers. I’ve no doubt it’s the teaching unions that are being a pain in the arse as opposed to individuals that probably want to get on with the job.

 

Twice a week testing for everyone in a school is the best approach 

Fair play! and, you know me, I'm all about the testing!

[steviewevie]

3105 cases today.

[Crazyfool01]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

3105 cases today.

Wonder if that has caught up a bit of the backlog ? Or how far behind they still are ? Anyone waiting for a test result ? 

[Ozanne]

40 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Except it’s not a tough situation at all. Have Covid symptoms, send them home. Have a cold, don’t bother. The symptoms aren’t remotely the same.

I say this not knowing what you do for a living. But it’s easier to say that when you aren’t in the situation so it’s slightly unfair to be that black and white over it. To you it might seem that simple but for a teacher in that moment it probably is anything but.

Edited September 15, 2020 by Ozanne

[FestivalJamie]

15 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Wonder if that has caught up a bit of the backlog ? Or how far behind they still are ? Anyone waiting for a test result ? 

Doesn’t seem high enough to make up for yesterday’s dip in trend to be honest, seems like there is still a potential backlog.

[Fuzzy Afro]

Entire Irish cabinet self isolating 

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Doesn’t seem high enough to make up for yesterday’s dip in trend to be honest, seems like there is still a potential backlog.

There is a backlog I would imagine, but the increase isn't just down to that as some of it will be cases rising.

Patients in hospital (up to 972) and patients in mechanical ventilator beds (up to 106) are both up as well.