When will this shit end?

[zahidf]

If schools are closed over the Xmas holiday, they'd be in theory less infections and they can allow larger groups

Positivity rates are up alas

 

[zahidf]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

Are any other countries applying this 6 max rule? I don’t get where there hasn’t been an agreed, tried and tested approach that is being rolled out Internationally.

We’re all fighting the same enemy here, so would have thought we could have come together across the globe to find a ‘best fit’ method in effectively surprising it. Not every country for themselves. 

Belgium has a similar system I think 

[steviewevie]

Just now, DeanoL said:

Yup. Something will have to give. If they want to allow unlimited movement and meeting in homes for families, they'll need to reduce the rate elsewhere. With "family" and "consumerism" being the two big pillars of Christmas it'll be a tough choice!

That will be a killer for many pubs and shops...so I think very unlikely. Just have to see, I think they will allow family meals as long as there's plenty of that hands/face/space thing going on, but not allow parties, something like that.

[Fuzzy Afro]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

Are any other countries applying this 6 max rule? I don’t get where there hasn’t been an agreed, tried and tested approach that is being rolled out Internationally.

We’re all fighting the same enemy here, so would have thought we could have come together across the globe to find a ‘best fit’ method in effectively surprising it. Not every country for themselves. 

Because who would determine the rules? You have governments that believe one case is too many, some want to keep society as open as they can without overwhelming the health system, and some that don’t even give a shit if it does get overwhelmed. 

[Crazyfool01]

13 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

Shutting pubs and shops over christmas?!

I reckon they will have these rules in place, but won't be enforced at all.

Please no ... that will just drive all the alcohol sales to supermarkets ... they are busy enough without that  

[Zoo Music Girl]

39 minutes ago, WestCountryGirl said:

No that's what's been happening, pretty much for the last 10 years. Most years one cousin has been either in Colombia or Spain, then my cousin who lives in Wales would be year on/year off with his wife and now children. My brother and his wife would always be there for at least part of it but the other would have been with her family. 

Until last year though, it was always the majority of us together, with one or two smaller satellites elsewhere. I know it's very sentimental of me - and I'm 29 (and the youngest of my generation of cousins) - but being with my family, my whole family, is always my favourite place to be. Because we aren't one of those families that all live in each others pockets, or even within an hour of each other, it was always special when we could get together. That would be Christmas and Easter. The last few years we've managed to get the even wider family together with renting big houses for significant birthdays but I'm still just getting used to the idea that us all being together in one place is now not even an annual guarantee, but an occasional joy every few years. 

Yeah I can understand that. And after the shit year everyone had had you'd want that even more so.

I'm not that close with my family. My friends are my family really. So that's why I've been particularly upset about it now being illegal to see them!

[DeanoL]

Just now, st dan said:

Are any other countries applying this 6 max rule? I don’t get where there hasn’t been an agreed, tried and tested approach that is being rolled out Internationally.

We’re all fighting the same enemy here, so would have thought we could have come together across the globe to find a ‘best fit’ method in effectively surprising it. Not every country for themselves. 

I think it's different for different cultures. And economies. We need bars and pubs open but can do without nightclubs, some countries can't. Meeting friends in pubs is more common than meeting in homes here, it's the opposite in other countries.

At this point it's accepted we're not going to eliminate infection, just reduce it. Nothing that has been opened up is "safe", it's just you open up a bunch of things and if the numbers don't go up too much it's okay. Some will cause the numbers to go up more than others, but that depends on the culture. Some are more valuable to the economy to open up, but that depends on the country.

[st dan]

3 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Because who would determine the rules? You have governments that believe one case is too many, some want to keep society as open as they can without overwhelming the health system, and some that don’t even give a shit if it does get overwhelmed. 

True - but I mean is there actually any science behind this 6 maximum rule? Like where are the studies that show this is dramatically more effective than 8/10 for example? Or have just made a best guess as a stab in the dark? 
I think the general public need to see the logic behind these apparently random decisions to fully get behind them. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by st dan

[zahidf]

Despite increases in france, no second lockdown planned

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

22 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

There could also be the choice to shut down other stuff to allow more movement at Christmas. Schools will already be out, offices could be shut down again for a couple of weeks, maybe they make the hard call and shut down pubs and shops over the Christmas week also.

Would be interesting doing that though, as it would be saying a lot more clearly: infections will go up as you're all seeing your families, so we're shutting other stuff to be able to deal with that. Which means it's not safe to see your families, some of you will get sick. Just we can treat you.

(Of course, frontline NHS workers won't be seeing their family at Chrimstas because they'll have to work extra hours so the rest of you can take "personal risks" but they got two months of applause, what more do they need)

Shutting pubs and shops at their traditionally busiest time after the shit year they've had trading wise would go down like a sack of shit. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Zoo Music Girl

[Paul ™]

20 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Job spec for the covid wardens: https://uk.jobtome.com/job/covid-marshall/f206e76535a7d1991a4bae4046036cfe#gref

“Must have a SIA licence”. There’s going to be a load of bouncers patrolling the streets isn’t there?

Is that an issue with having trained staff doing this role?

18 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

It does mean a new avenue of employment for a lot of event stewards who have missed out on a summer of festivals. 

Exactly!

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, st dan said:

True - but I mean if there any science behind this 6 maximum rule? Like where are the studies that show this is dramatically more effective than 8/10 for example? Or have just made a best guess as a stab in the dark? 
I think the general public need to see the logic behind these apparently random decisions to fully get behind them. 

No. 4 would be better. 0 would be best. 8 would be worse. If we're totally blunt, the number depends on how many people you're happy getting infected.

[Paul ™]

20 minutes ago, zero000 said:

Job spec for the covid wardens: https://uk.jobtome.com/job/covid-marshall/f206e76535a7d1991a4bae4046036cfe#gref

“Must have a SIA licence”. There’s going to be a load of bouncers patrolling the streets isn’t there?

Is that an issue with having trained staff doing this role? The term bouncers is a bit outdated tbh.

18 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

It does mean a new avenue of employment for a lot of event stewards who have missed out on a summer of festivals. 

Exactly!

[zero000]

3 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

Is that an issue with having trained staff doing this role?

Exactly!

Just a comment. Rather have bouncers than a load of unqualified jobsworths. 

Edited September 10, 2020 by zero000

[Mr.Tease]

10 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I loved them not sure the response might be so good on the local high street  

I did, though I always thought they should have had a taser for dealing with people weeing in the hedges😂

[DeanoL]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Shutting pubs and shops at their traditionally busiest time after the shit year they've had trading wise would go down like a sack of shit. 

Whereas the idea of not letting people see all their family at Christmas is being received really positively?

Plus I'm talking about doing it for the week people are off seeing family generally- ie. Friday 25th to Friday 1st. With the exception of New Year's Eve (which will probably need its own rules, fuck knows how we manage that) most pubs and shops are not that busy during that time. A lot are not open anyway.

Plus it lets Spaffer play off the two against each other "because we all want to see our families, we're shutting down pubs/shops" which is one of his favourite passtimes.

[stuie]

54 minutes ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Rees-Mogg self isolating

He should do this permanently.  Nothing to do with covid.

Cockwomble.

 

[st dan]

2 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

No. 4 would be better. 0 would be best. 8 would be worse. If we're totally blunt, the number depends on how many people you're happy getting infected.

But here is where the problem lies I guess. This government has made the decision that 6 is now the threshold, and a lot of people are going to miss out on spending time with family and friends now. Without the sound reasoning/figures behind why this is suddenly so important, then many people aren’t going to comply. 

[stuie]

If Matt Hancock says anything of interest in this briefing can someone post it here please?

I've been forced back to the office today to help out Pret a Manger and Costa so I can't listen to it unfortunately.

[jparx]

1 hour ago, Henrik said:

Then feel free to isolate until you feel safe to come out. 

I have 20 guys who work for me. None of us have missed a single day due to covid - we have worked closely together all through the pandemic. I will be telling anyone who says I can't spend time with my family to fuck off - and I will deal with any consequences. 

What about anyone you might infect if you end up catching it? Can they fuck off too?

[Fuzzy Afro]

9 minutes ago, stuie said:

If Matt Hancock says anything of interest in this briefing can someone post it here please?

I've been forced back to the office today to help out Pret a Manger and Costa so I can't listen to it unfortunately.

Had Matt Hancock ever said anything of interest? 

[efcfanwirral]

4 hours ago, MEGABOWL said:

They aren’t going to stop, they’re just going elsewhere. And being sneaky about it.
 

Practicalities aside. It is starting to make me feel uncomfortable just how much control people are willing and happy to give to the Government (an incompetent, untrustworthy one at that) over this.

And now we get this....

 

 

10 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

Is that an issue with having trained staff doing this role? The term bouncers is a bit outdated tbh.

Exactly!

I personally think there is an issue with having this at all..

Just a tidal wave of authoritarian powers - I'm not adverse to a bit of authoritarianism myself (I'm still in favour of proper quarantine and checks on self isolation for those who test positive or return from abroad for example) but I don't think a bunch of people roaming the streets trying to enforce extremely unclear rules is a great step. 

These powers will be permanent - and these "covid marshalls"  will merge into our new private police force - the cuts weren't for nothing... 

[Toilet Duck]

23 minutes ago, st dan said:

Are any other countries applying this 6 max rule? I don’t get where there hasn’t been an agreed, tried and tested approach that is being rolled out Internationally.

We’re all fighting the same enemy here, so would have thought we could have come together across the globe to find a ‘best fit’ method in effectively surprising it. Not every country for themselves. 

In theory we've had this rule for a few weeks in Ireland. The rule here is actually 6 people from outside your household (in good old catholic Ireland there are plenty of families with more than 6 people in them, so they couldn't be putting the kids in a tent out the back garden!). Those 6 can come from no more than 2 other households...as they were rolling it out, they changed the legislation to allow the Gardaí to enforce shutting down pubs etc, but stopped short of giving them the power to enter your home and break up a gathering with more than 6 people (the AG said it was unconstitutional, so they dropped it...they floated the idea, but thankfully the right to a private dwelling is written into our constitution, so they had nowhere to go with it...). It's looking like that will be shut down in Dublin soon (case numbers are at about 66 per 100,000 at the moment, but not evenly spread across the city, some parts are well over 100 per 100,000, others nowhere near it). So, we're expecting a ban on household visits other than existing extended household bubbles by Monday. Probably a restriction on leaving the county as well. 

[Paul ™]

5 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

 

I personally think there is an issue with having this at all..

Just a tidal wave of authoritarian powers - I'm not adverse to a bit of authoritarianism myself (I'm still in favour of proper quarantine and checks on self isolation for those who test positive or return from abroad for example) but I don't think a bunch of people roaming the streets trying to enforce extremely unclear rules is a great step. 

These powers will be permanent - and these "covid marshalls"  will merge into our new private police force - the cuts weren't for nothing... 

I agree it's not needed. But the point that it's a requirement it's SIA licence holders to apply is the right way forward if it is to happen.

[squirrelarmy]

5 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

These powers will be permanent - and these "covid marshalls"  will merge into our new private police force - the cuts weren't for nothing... 

The American equivalent will probably be armed as well. 🤦‍♂️