When will this shit end?

[Crazyfool01]

5 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

sneezing

thats definitely not in the covid symptoms .... and a reason to be staying at home 

[Ozanne]

28 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

It may be August when reporters need something to write about...but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some truth to this. Even without having the virus I'm not sure Johnson was up to the job, and it does look like Sunak is being nicely set up to take over.

I think it’ll be Gove, he’s Cummings man and they are good friends too. I think they’ll use underhanded tactics to squeeze Sunak out. It’s important for Cummings that he remains at the top of government.

[Toilet Duck]

29 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

I guess it's a mixture of those that don't think they are at risk and so can't be bothered and those that understand that masks have almost no effect in reducing the spread of covid.

 

Oh go on then...so, at no point has the guidance to wear masks been on the basis that they will prevent aerosolised transmission of the virus. They will however lower the distribution of droplets, which all the current evidence suggests is the primary route of transmission (this may change, but at the moment, that's what the evidence is). If you don't want to wear a mask, then that's your choice, but don't pretend it's because you are "following the science" (in Ireland it will get you a €2500 fine and up to 6 months in prison, but hey ho). Or maybe you are just being contrary for the sake of it. If you want to post about something that is actually serious when it comes to masks and the prevention of droplet transmission, then a reference to the latest paper on how single layer cotton masks, bandanas and snoods/neck gaiters may actually worsen the situation is the better point to make (essentially it looks like the single layer mesh breaks up larger droplets into finer ones and they hang in the air a bit longer). So, triple layer, with a moisture repellant outer layer is the best type of mask. Published in Science Advances (rather than some bloke on the radio with a vape). 

 

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083

[gizmoman]

5 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Oh go on then...so, at no point has the guidance to wear masks been on the basis that they will prevent aerosolised transmission of the virus. They will however lower the distribution of droplets, which all the current evidence suggests is the primary route of transmission (this may change, but at the moment, that's what the evidence is). If you don't want to wear a mask, then that's your choice, but don't pretend it's because you are "following the science" (in Ireland it will get you a €2500 fine and up to 6 months in prison, but hey ho). Or maybe you are just being contrary for the sake of it. If you want to post about something that is actually serious when it comes to masks and the prevention of droplet transmission, then a reference to the latest paper on how single layer cotton masks, bandanas and snoods/neck gaiters may actually worsen the situation is the better point to make (essentially it looks like the single layer mesh breaks up larger droplets into finer ones and they hang in the air a bit longer). So, triple layer, with a moisture repellant outer layer is the best type of mask. Published in Science Advances (rather than some bloke on the radio with a vape). 

 

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083

"They will however lower the distribution of droplets" - My follow up post made it clear I agreed with this.

"So, triple layer, with a moisture repellant outer layer is the best type of mask" - i'm sure that you are correct that wearing that particular type of mask will give you SOME protection but the fact is most infections occur when people are in close proximity for long periods such as in the home, how many people wear face masks at home? The people who do wear masks in public are wearing a variety of types most of which are not effective and some are wearing them as a fashion item rather than for any medical benefit. As community spread at the moment is small and most don't wear an appropriate mask my comment "masks have almost no effect in reducing the spread of covid. " still stands. BTW in Spain masks are mandatory in public, even outside and they are having an increase in cases at the moment, so that would also suggest they don't work.

 

[steviewevie]

red wall

https://www.netweather.tv/live-weather/radar

[steviewevie]

https://www.tes.com/news/coronavirus-exclusive-england-set-u-turn-masks-schools

[Toilet Duck]

5 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

"They will however lower the distribution of droplets" - My follow up post made it clear I agreed with this.

"So, triple layer, with a moisture repellant outer layer is the best type of mask" - i'm sure that you are correct that wearing that particular type of mask will give you SOME protection but the fact is most infections occur when people are in close proximity for long periods such as in the home, how many people wear face masks at home? The people who do wear masks in public are wearing a variety of types most of which are not effective and some are wearing them as a fashion item rather than for any medical benefit. As community spread at the moment is small and most don't wear an appropriate mask my comment "masks have almost no effect in reducing the spread of covid. " still stands. BTW in Spain masks are mandatory in public, even outside and they are having an increase in cases at the moment, so that would also suggest they don't work.

 

None of the guidance to wear masks is to protect you. If you want to protect yourself, then you need an FFP2/3 masks, professionally fitted preferably and goggles at least to protect your eyes. Some training in donning and doffing PPE would also not go amiss. But that's not the point and not why people are being asked to wear them...it's simply to prevent spread from you, not to you. And yes, some people do wear masks at home or in confined spaces (when my folks who are over 70 visit we pop them on). Spain also has nightclubs and bars open so, I'm not sure what your point is on that one. The simple fact is that there's is now a mountain of scientific evidence that shows the impact of mask wearing, but it's predominantly countered not by rational scientific argument (and specific references to evidence proving otherwise), but by whataboutery and anecdotal evidence that supports a bias of whoever is arguing against their use. 

[steviewevie]

 

[sadimmock]

6 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Fucking hell. What is worrying is that people are eating it right up. My friend just shared the below with me, which has apparently been doing the rounds with Trump supporters... look closely at "Jesus":

 

Looks like Geoff Barrow from Portishead!

Edited August 25, 2020 by sadimmock

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

I guess it's a mixture of those that don't think they are at risk and so can't be bothered and those that understand that masks have almost no effect in reducing the spread of covid.

 

FWIW, directly below was a video explaining why masks do work:

 

[Quark]

7 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Fucking hell. What is worrying is that people are eating it right up. My friend just shared the below with me, which has apparently been doing the rounds with Trump supporters... look closely at "Jesus":

 

All I can see is this

[squirrelarmy]

3 minutes ago, Quark said:

All I can see is this

All I see is this

[fred quimby]

7 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Fucking hell. What is worrying is that people are eating it right up. My friend just shared the below with me, which has apparently been doing the rounds with Trump supporters... look closely at "Jesus":

 

I may be being thick here (nowt new there) but is he meant to look like Charles Manson

Edited August 25, 2020 by fred quimby

[Leyrulion]

1 hour ago, gizmoman said:

I guess it's a mixture of those that don't think they are at risk and so can't be bothered and those that understand that masks have almost no effect in reducing the spread of covid.

 

To me this video proves why masks actually work? All the smoke seemed to stay roughly around him, say about 1m distance. 

If he did a control experiment with just the vape then it would have gone directly out in front of him further than 1m. Suggesting the 1m+ protection distance is about right.

[zahidf]

Seems relevant

 

[gizmoman]

3 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

To me this video proves why masks actually work? All the smoke seemed to stay roughly around him, say about 1m distance. 

If he did a control experiment with just the vape then it would have gone directly out in front of him further than 1m. Suggesting the 1m+ protection distance is about right.

Fair point, but then you could argue that if the guy had covid the infectious particles would be diluted by being spread further and so would be less likely to give someone a large viral load, neither this or the vid stuartbert posted is actual scientific proof that masks are or are not a major factor in preventing the spread, I accept there may be a small benefit to mask wearing but there are downsides too, overall i'm not convinced of the need to force people to wear them.

[steviewevie]

back in March the scientific advice seemed to be against wearing masks...and then this advice changed as approached the summer. Why was that?

[gizmoman]

23 minutes ago, fred quimby said:

I may be being thick here (nowt new there) but his he meant to look like Charles Manson

Don't know if it's deliberate but it sure looks like Charlie,

[Ozanne]

12 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Fair point, but then you could argue that if the guy had covid the infectious particles would be diluted by being spread further and so would be less likely to give someone a large viral load, neither this or the vid stuartbert posted is actual scientific proof that masks are or are not a major factor in preventing the spread, I accept there may be a small benefit to mask wearing but there are downsides too, overall i'm not convinced of the need to force people to wear them.

You’ve had someone that works in that field and is able to provide scientific prove that masks help yet you came back saying masks have ‘almost no effect’ in stopping the spread of covid. 

[shoptildrop]

1 hour ago, Toilet Duck said:

Oh go on then...so, at no point has the guidance to wear masks been on the basis that they will prevent aerosolised transmission of the virus. They will however lower the distribution of droplets, which all the current evidence suggests is the primary route of transmission (this may change, but at the moment, that's what the evidence is). If you don't want to wear a mask, then that's your choice, but don't pretend it's because you are "following the science" (in Ireland it will get you a €2500 fine and up to 6 months in prison, but hey ho). Or maybe you are just being contrary for the sake of it. If you want to post about something that is actually serious when it comes to masks and the prevention of droplet transmission, then a reference to the latest paper on how single layer cotton masks, bandanas and snoods/neck gaiters may actually worsen the situation is the better point to make (essentially it looks like the single layer mesh breaks up larger droplets into finer ones and they hang in the air a bit longer). So, triple layer, with a moisture repellant outer layer is the best type of mask. Published in Science Advances (rather than some bloke on the radio with a vape). 

 

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/07/sciadv.abd3083

@Toilet Duck I've been wearing this anti-viral coated snod thing as don't like things round my ears as gets tangled in both glasses and hearing aid - do you think this mask is better?

[gizmoman]

9 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

back in March the scientific advice seemed to be against wearing masks...and then this advice changed as approached the summer. Why was that?

Well it seems they realised that mask wearing was in fact effective against disease, you would have thought that scientists would have worked that out a bit sooner if it were true, like in the last few hundred years of medical advancement, but better late than never I guess.

[shoptildrop]

Well looks like they got someone to take the blame over the exams mess

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53909487

[steviewevie]

 

[Quark]

10 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Well it seems they realised that mask wearing was in fact effective against disease, you would have thought that scientists would have worked that out a bit sooner if it were true, like in the last few hundred years of medical advancement, but better late than never I guess.

Yep, heavens forbid that understanding of transmission, contagion, human behavioural patterns, travel, population densities, and previously unencountered diseases should change over time as we learn more.

Based on that you might as well ask why they didn't prioritise clean water and sewage treatment instead of blaming the miasma for cholera.  Still, better late than never eh?

EDIT: that's pissier than I normally like to be on the forum and I acknowledge that. But the whole point of science and medicine is development FFS.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Quark

[Toilet Duck]

16 minutes ago, gizmoman said:

Well it seems they realised that mask wearing was in fact effective against disease, you would have thought that scientists would have worked that out a bit sooner if it were true, like in the last few hundred years of medical advancement, but better late than never I guess.

Actually, it was the emerging evidence that a large cohort of asymptomatic individuals contributed significantly to the spread of the disease that precipitated the shift (along with other mounting evidence). This isn’t a large feature of other respiratory virus transmission, so the advice early on was indeed informed by the hundreds of years of medical/scientific research...of course this is a new virus, so, as we learned more about it the advice shifted accordingly (as it should). There was undoubtedly a component in the thinking that was fuelled by supply, but a lack of evidence and assuming flu protocols would work for this one is what was behind the early advice. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Toilet Duck