When will this shit end?

[mcshed]

54 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

...but in the end, this is one of the reasons labour won't win. Too divided. Tories were divided as fuck over brexit, but when it came to the crunch they did what they had to do to win.

To be fair they did that by kicking out anyone who didn't agree, it wasn't like they all came together over it in the end.

[mattiloy]

I recently donated to a gofundme started by a former labour activist to support Corbyn’s legal fund in his fight against John Ware et al. It has raised well over £300k from tens of thousands of donors. Corbynism had and has the backing of more people than some on here and in the PLP are willing to admit.

Starmer will need them too. But I do think he can probably count more on those votes sticking around - certainly in the US, biden might not be the lefts first choice but after a term on trump anyone will do - and then focus on hoovering up lib dem, soft tory voters. 

I’m reserving judgement on Keir Starmer myself but I do believe the challenges of the modern age require radical and imaginitive solutions which centrist administrations are less inclined to pursue.

Its not clear what Starmer stands for but early moves suggest he is more for placating the centrist faction over the progressive faction. If this is reflected in the eventual manifesto and shadow cabinet reshuffles ahead of the next election, I will be voting green.
 

[zahidf]

10 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I recently donated to a gofundme started by a former labour activist to support Corbyn’s legal fund in his fight against John Ware et al. It has raised well over £300k from tens of thousands of donors. Corbynism had and has the backing of more people than some on here and in the PLP are willing to admit.

Starmer will need them too. But I do think he can probably count more on those votes sticking around - certainly in the US, biden might not be the lefts first choice but after a term on trump anyone will do - and then focus on hoovering up lib dem, soft tory voters. 

I’m reserving judgement on Keir Starmer myself but I do believe the challenges of the modern age require radical and imaginitive solutions which centrist administrations are less inclined to pursue.

Its not clear what Starmer stands for but early moves suggest he is more for placating the centrist faction over the progressive faction. If this is reflected in the eventual manifesto and shadow cabinet reshuffles ahead of the next election, I will be voting green.
 

lets pay the legal fees of a millionaire being sued for calling a jounralist biased....

[Joshuwarr]

20 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

I recently donated to a gofundme started by a former labour activist to support Corbyn’s legal fund in his fight against John Ware et al. It has raised well over £300k from tens of thousands of donors. Corbynism had and has the backing of more people than some on here and in the PLP are willing to admit.

Starmer will need them too. But I do think he can probably count more on those votes sticking around - certainly in the US, biden might not be the lefts first choice but after a term on trump anyone will do - and then focus on hoovering up lib dem, soft tory voters. 

I’m reserving judgement on Keir Starmer myself but I do believe the challenges of the modern age require radical and imaginitive solutions which centrist administrations are less inclined to pursue.

Its not clear what Starmer stands for but early moves suggest he is more for placating the centrist faction over the progressive faction. If this is reflected in the eventual manifesto and shadow cabinet reshuffles ahead of the next election, I will be voting green.
 

What a waste of money. The guy has more than enough money to fund any legal defence - why not donate to a local food bank instead?

[squirrelarmy]

23 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Corbynism had and has the backing of more people than some on here and in the PLP are willing to admit.

Corbynism is dead as a movement. He has always been unelectable in this country. The sooner people move on from that the better. 
 

He tried and failed badly against the biggest joke of a government seen in decades if not ever. 
 

His ideas might work in a land of fairytales and unicorns but here in the real world his methodology of governance will never get a look in. 
 

You’ve got more chance of turning a lion vegan than getting Corbyn in power. 

[balthazarstarbuck]

32 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

 Corbynism had and has the backing of more people than some on here and in the PLP are willing to admit.

Two lost elections say otherwise.

[dotdash79]

Coronavirus: UK 'not considering' compulsory face masks in workplaces https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53833204
 

I give it 4 weeks until face mask are compulsory in the workplace. 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, dotdash79 said:

Coronavirus: UK 'not considering' compulsory face masks in workplaces https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53833204
 

I give it 4 weeks until face mask are compulsory in the workplace. 

I bloody hope so ... or I’m gonna lose the plot  

[Fuzzy Afro]

6 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I bloody hope so ... or I’m gonna lose the plot  

Can I ask why you’re so keen on this particular policy? I haven’t really been following the thread 

[mattiloy]

17 minutes ago, Joshuwarr said:

What a waste of money. The guy has more than enough money to fund any legal defence - why not donate to a local food bank instead?

Why not do both?

Injustice is injustice.

Cool that you know how much money Jeremy Corbyn has. Are you his accountant?

9 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

 

His ideas might work in a land of fairytales and unicorns but here in the real world his methodology of governance will never get a look in. 
 

Au contraire my rodentine friend, many of those policies are already in place and functioning successfully in countries across Europe.

Many of those policies are also absolutely necessary for us to meet the challenges and needs of the modern age.

[FestivalJamie]

14 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I bloody hope so ... or I’m gonna lose the plot  

The government always u-turn, so that article literally means nothing.

If cases start to rise when schools go back it will be a different story.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Fuzzy Afro said:

Can I ask why you’re so keen on this particular policy? I haven’t really been following the thread 

Because I work with some people that I don’t think are very considerate of others ... pretty non existent social distancing even with vulnerable colleagues like myself ... many who I’ve worked with for many years ... quite honestly I’m scared to be at work at the moment ... so about 20-30% of staff are wearing them ... and for Matt Hancock to talk about not many instances in workplaces maybe a week after the sandwich factory ... 400 cases I believe of workers ... and the desert factory ... 70 I think at last count ... ( I work in a supermarket that’s recommended that we wear them ... but not told us we have to ... and I can see the numbers of customers not wearing them increasing day by day ... maybe not as a direct result of us not wearing them but it’s probably an influencing factor ... I’d like to be around for the next glastonbury 

[FestivalJamie]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

Because I work with some people that I don’t think are very considerate of others ... pretty non existent social distancing even with vulnerable colleagues like myself ... many who I’ve worked with for many years ... quite honestly I’m scared to be at work at the moment ... so about 20-30% of staff are wearing them ... and for Matt Hancock to talk about not many instances in workplaces maybe a week after the sandwich factory ... 400 cases I believe of workers ... and the desert factory ... 70 I think at last count ... ( I work in a supermarket that’s recommended that we wear them ... but not told us we have to ... and I can see the numbers of customers not wearing them increasing day by day ... maybe not as a direct result of us not wearing them but it’s probably an influencing factor ... I’d like to be around for the next glastonbury 

I’m really sorry you are feeling this way. I’ve seen increasing amounts of people not abiding too as police simply aren’t going round giving out fines and being strict enforcing the rules.

Remember though that Michael gove said they wouldn’t be mandatory in shops and then the government u-turned, so im sensing it is very possible they will u-turn on this one if cases increase again. Matt Hancock is talking a load of wad in that article, because it is perfectly clear there have been outbreaks linked to factories, and therefore it is crazy to me that masks and other forms of PPE arent mandated in them.

[Ozanne]

56 minutes ago, mattiloy said:

Its not clear what Starmer stands for but early moves suggest he is more for placating the centrist faction over the progressive faction. If this is reflected in the eventual manifesto and shadow cabinet reshuffles ahead of the next election, I will be voting green.

 

I’m sorry to say this and be ‘that guy’ but a vote for the Greens is essentially a vote for the Tories. A vote for anyone other than Labour is a vote for the Tories. Yes it sucks but that’s how our FPTP system works, we need PR to be able to legitimately vote for other parties. PR is something Starmer is interested in as well.

You might have to vote Labour in 2024 to get in a position to vote for someone else going forward. 

[northernringo]

Looks like restrictions are going to be tightened in NI tomorrow.

On one hand, our positive cases have been increasing by a fair bit (although they don't seem to be as bad as last week so far).

On the other hand, we have 4 people in hospital and no-one in ICU...

[Zoo Music Girl]

They are mandatory in some workplaces but I guess that's down to the employer. My partner's brother temped in an Amazon warehouse for a couple of months this summer and had to wear one the whole time on shift. Definitely wasn't his choice to.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

I’m sorry to say this and be ‘that guy’ but a vote for the Greens is essentially a vote for the Tories. A vote for anyone other than Labour is a vote for the Tories. Yes it sucks but that’s how our FPTP system works, we need PR to be able to legitimately vote for other parties. PR is something Starmer is interested in as well.

You might have to vote Labour in 2024 to get in a position to vote for someone else going forward. 

Unless you live in a Lib/Con seat.

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Unless you live in a Lib/Con seat.

Or Brighton.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

I’m sorry to say this and be ‘that guy’ but a vote for the Greens is essentially a vote for the Tories. A vote for anyone other than Labour is a vote for the Tories. Yes it sucks but that’s how our FPTP system works, we need PR to be able to legitimately vote for other parties. PR is something Starmer is interested in as well.

You might have to vote Labour in 2024 to get in a position to vote for someone else going forward. 

Unless a clear second place is another party ... labour have no hope in my constituency... 

[Ozanne]

Very true, I was talking more generally but I should’ve added that in.

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

They are mandatory in some workplaces but I guess that's down to the employer. My partner's brother temped in an Amazon warehouse for a couple of months this summer and had to wear one the whole time on shift. Definitely wasn't his choice to.

Yep it’s far from my choice of course I hate the bloody things ... it’s also dependant on how well the idea is sold to people ... for example a store down the road has 100% compliance same company !! 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Oh and in Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland of course!

But yeah if it's Lab/Con if you vote for anything other than Lab it does basically hand to the Tories. I understand that it's an issue of conscience though.

[DeanoL]

 

33 minutes ago, squirrelarmy said:

Corbynism is dead as a movement. He has always been unelectable in this country. The sooner people move on from that the better. 
 

He tried and failed badly against the biggest joke of a government seen in decades if not ever. 
 

His ideas might work in a land of fairytales and unicorns but here in the real world his methodology of governance will never get a look in. 
 

You’ve got more chance of turning a lion vegan than getting Corbyn in power. 

I disagree with that - the 2017 election left Corbyn 2227 votes in the right places away from potentially fronting a progressive alliance government. And the leaked Labour report shows Labour party staff members actively supporting the Tories in 2017 to ensure Corbyn lost.

While it was a lost cause by 2019 for a variety of reasons, and a majority Labour government was never going to happen, Corbyn was a lot closer to being PM than many want to think.

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I’m sorry to say this and be ‘that guy’ but a vote for the Greens is essentially a vote for the Tories. A vote for anyone other than Labour is a vote for the Tories. Yes it sucks but that’s how our FPTP system works, we need PR to be able to legitimately vote for other parties. PR is something Starmer is interested in as well.

You might have to vote Labour in 2024 to get in a position to vote for someone else going forward. 

You know who didn't think that way? Brexiteers. They kept voting UKIP despite their parliamentary performance being abysmal. They only ever had at most one MP. And yet they were able to push through and win a referendum on Brexit. It took Farage 20 years, but it worked. Labour will never bring in PR, not if it puts them in to government. Because of how media works these days, tactically voting for just the parties likely to win in your constituency isn't necessarily the only consideration any more.

As for the "people on Twitter" that Starmer is alienating, my concern is that the "people on Twitter" were also the "people campaigning in 2019". Most of the grassroots, door-to-door campaigning was done by young people invigorated by Corbyn. I'm not sure the 30- and 40-somethings that like Starmer will be taking a few days off work to go campaign for him in the same way.

[Crazyfool01]

23 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

I’m really sorry you are feeling this way. I’ve seen increasing amounts of people not abiding too as police simply aren’t going round giving out fines and being strict enforcing the rules.

Remember though that Michael gove said they wouldn’t be mandatory in shops and then the government u-turned, so im sensing it is very possible they will u-turn on this one if cases increase again. Matt Hancock is talking a load of wad in that article, because it is perfectly clear there have been outbreaks linked to factories, and therefore it is crazy to me that masks and other forms of PPE arent mandated in them.

Fingers crossed 🤞 thanks ... I’d love some enforcement and some of they money directed to struggling charities .. 

[zahidf]

5 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

 

I disagree with that - the 2017 election left Corbyn 2227 votes in the right places away from potentially fronting a progressive alliance government. And the leaked Labour report shows Labour party staff members actively supporting the Tories in 2017 to ensure Corbyn lost.

While it was a lost cause by 2019 for a variety of reasons, and a majority Labour government was never going to happen, Corbyn was a lot closer to being PM than many want to think.

You know who didn't think that way? Brexiteers. They kept voting UKIP despite their parliamentary performance being abysmal. They only ever had at most one MP. And yet they were able to push through and win a referendum on Brexit. It took Farage 20 years, but it worked. Labour will never bring in PR, not if it puts them in to government. Because of how media works these days, tactically voting for just the parties likely to win in your constituency isn't necessarily the only consideration any more.

As for the "people on Twitter" that Starmer is alienating, my concern is that the "people on Twitter" were also the "people campaigning in 2019". Most of the grassroots, door-to-door campaigning was done by young people invigorated by Corbyn. I'm not sure the 30- and 40-somethings that like Starmer will be taking a few days off work to go campaign for him in the same way.

Or... the Tories were around 700 votes away in the right places toa  majority govt without the DUP

 

Its fine to have an ideology, but Jez's one lost. time to move on