When will this shit end?

[Homer]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Fair enough. I do broadly agree. I'd be able to quarantine quite easily if I went away as basically still at home all the time anyway, but we didn't have anything booked beyond April and May, which obviously both got cancelled. I wonder what I'd do in that situation. I have colleagues who have been to Spain and say they felt safer there than here.

If my holidays gets cancelled then fair enough; if it takes off then I'll get on the flight.

My colleague got back from Spain recently (booked last minute) and as she tested negative she doesn't have to quarantine. I'm not sure how many people know this (I didn't until she told me).

[Chapple12345]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Some people’s problem is the time they’ve been given which I can understand. 

They're in a rock and a hard place for that part I think because if they do it instantaneously like Spain people would complain it was too short notice but if they announced it and it wasn't brought in for a little while (e.g. a week) then people would say it would allow the virus to spread - I think if they announced it at a reasonable time a few days before (e.g 12pm yesterday and implemented Sunday) then it's a fair balance 

14 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I have some sympathy for people who booked months ago before all this kicked off. They are kind of in a use it or lose it situation with their pre-booked holiday I guess. But yeah this is definitely a risk if booking from March onwards.

I entirely agree. Whilst I'm not their biggest fan, the government did say that they'd bring in measures almost instantaneously so there's always the risk, personally I don't see many reasons why holidaying within the UK is seen as such a bad thing at this current moment, especially with all the lovely weather we've had recently 

[balthazarstarbuck]

1 hour ago, parsonjack said:

Perhaps I'm a little naive but I'm not sensing too much of a cover up on the figures.  They are clearly recognising that counting is a bit f*cked up and are attempting to fix that for the better (certainly with the death counts).  I'm seeing the absence of figures for 1 day as a sign that changes are being made to make things better rather than hiding any bad news.

Agreed, it does smell more of incompetence rather than cooking the books.

 

Was meant to be going to France next week, actually quite relived the quarantine restrictions have come in now rather than being kicked down the road, even if the moneys a bit up in the air (though France reciprocating the quarantine for Brits should help with that too)

[parsonjack]

21 minutes ago, balthazarstarbuck said:

Agreed, it does smell more of incompetence rather than cooking the books.

 

Was meant to be going to France next week, actually quite relived the quarantine restrictions have come in now rather than being kicked down the road, even if the moneys a bit up in the air (though France reciprocating the quarantine for Brits should help with that too)

My sister is currently in Brittany at her apartment.  They've said they are staying on as they are able to quarantine on return but she is cautious about any backlash they may now experience in locality, restaurants, bars etc.  She also says that they are being careful but that social distancing measures are almost entirely ignored where they are 🤔

[LJS]

58 minutes ago, Homer said:

If my holidays gets cancelled then fair enough; if it takes off then I'll get on the flight.

My colleague got back from Spain recently (booked last minute) and as she tested negative she doesn't have to quarantine. I'm not sure how many people know this (I didn't until she told me).

According to this, you still have to self isolate for 14 days even if you test negative.

https://fullfact.org/health/what-are-quarantine-rules-if-you-return-uk-abroad/

"Even if you have Covid-19 symptoms and recover from them during your quarantine, or even if you are tested and receive a negative result, you will need to remain in self-isolation for the full 14 days after arriving in the UK. "

[FestivalJamie]

2 hours ago, pryce said:

why do people want to lockdown to march levels again, cases are not widely spreading out of control, yes they could, but they are not yet.

Bonkers, none of us said we want a national lockdown. Why would any of us want a national lockdown, or even a local lockdown, it’s not exactly fun is it?

The point people are making and I myself are making is that a further easing of restrictions tomorrow is extremely counter-intuitive given the rising case numbers. It is also extremely counter intuitive given there’s up to 160,000 tourists rushing back from France to avoid the quarantine, and potentially bringing in and spreading the virus more in this country.

From my point of view, cases are now consistently topping 1000 a day. Given we are in the peak of summer and people are spending most time outdoors, that to me, is concerning. With plans to reopen schools in just over 2 weeks, the government should be taking caution not easing further restrictions. They have said reopening schools is the foremost priority and now all of a sudden the shift is on reopening the economy and pay no attention to the whole education uproar yesterday. Does that bode well for schools reopening in 2 weeks. Nope. And considering everyone is going to start moving indoors from next month, it’s pretty worrying, as it could lead to an exponential spike in cases which could eventually lead to another national lockdown, if everyone isn’t careful, and that’s what most of us on here want to avoid, which is why we are all taking caution now.

From my point of view now is the right time to step up the little things which could prevent big future outbreaks:

1. Mandatory contact tracing at restaurants and pubs. Enquire about how many households to try and regulate and keep the number of groups mixing down.

2. Mandatory masks for staff in supermarkets, restaurants, pubs and hairdressers and other close contact services.

3. Step up enforcement measures. It’s all very good raising the fines, but police actually need to step up here and start fining people for not wearing masks in enclosed spaces, which will boost compliance more. 

Why have 6000 contact tracers been fired? They could have been made into quarantine inspectors. They could be phoning the thousands of people quarantining right now instead to make sure they are sticking to the quarantine, or making spot visits, if that is allowed. I’ve seen how strict Guernsey are regarding quarantine, I’m not saying we need to be quite so strict, but we definitely need to be much stricter than we are at the moment, as there are definitely people who are slipping through the cracks and not quarantining and not being fined.

All of the above are little things that can help mitigate numbers and prevent future lockdowns. But they need to be taken now. All of the above things countries like Germany and France are already doing, and if they can’t keep numbers down with the measures we haven’t even got, I don’t know how we are going to prevent a future spike. 

In my opinion, a future spike is unfortunately unavoidable, but if we crack down now with mask wearing, contact tracing and enforcement by police, perhaps a future spike won’t be so bad or may even be prevented. 

Our economy is worse than ever, to try and rebuild it we need to keep cases down as they are linked. Now is the time to take that action to keep cases down before they start rising again.

Just my opinion, I certainly don’t want to be in another lockdown, but I think stepping up the little things could go a long way right now.

 

[Zoo Music Girl]

The quarantine thing not being enforced is bonkers to me. Basically stay at home please and we might phone you to check you are complying. If it was me I only have a mobile number so how are they going to know I am at home if they call me on that? I could be anywhere and just lie. I know it's a tricky one to enforce, but I do wonder if people actually stick to it. So easy to make a sneaky trip to the shop.

[parsonjack]

32 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I know it's a tricky one to enforce, but I do wonder if people actually stick to it. So easy to make a sneaky trip to the shop.

....and they will, but it's damage limitation.  I'm trying to hold on to the concept that any degree of observance is better than none at all.

[Ozanne]

This is in reference to Grant Shapps error last night on Sky News:

[parsonjack]

10 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

This is in reference to Grant Shapps error last night on Sky News:

As in his '4am Saturday night' statement?

Perhaps it's what comes of working with data on a daily basis but I'd certainly have looked for clarification around that statement before just assuming it meant 4pm Saturday night or 4am Sunday morning.

Edited August 14, 2020 by parsonjack

[Padjeq]

41 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

The quarantine thing not being enforced is bonkers to me. Basically stay at home please and we might phone you to check you are complying. If it was me I only have a mobile number so how are they going to know I am at home if they call me on that? I could be anywhere and just lie. I know it's a tricky one to enforce, but I do wonder if people actually stick to it. So easy to make a sneaky trip to the shop.

I had reason to call 999 this week. I didn't know the postcode of where I was, but they said they knew exactly where I was because they could see my phone was in that building. Any government agency tasked with making sure people are at home when they call them will have access to the same technology*. Amazon and uber have it. Even Dominos pizza will let you track your delivery lad using his phone location.

(*unless, of course, they weren't actually concerned with catching anyone, and just wanted to look like they were policing it)

[pryce]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459

 

interesting article, shocking at how few hospital admissions there were in Leicester, would of expected a few more especially the areas in the city it was spreading which has quite a large BAME and elderly population. would be interested to see a breakdown in ages of those affected in leicester

[efcfanwirral]

1 minute ago, Padjeq said:

I had reason to call 999 this week. I didn't know the postcode of where I was, but they said they knew exactly where I was because they could see my phone was in that building. Any government agency tasked with making sure people are at home when they call them will have access to the same technology*. Amazon and uber have it. Even Dominos pizza will let you track your delivery lad using his phone location.

(*unless, of course, they weren't actually concerned with catching anyone, and just wanted to look like they were policing it)

The right wing "freedom" mantra always reinforces that the "hard left" are the evil ones who want to control people and tell them what to do, while the conservatives are the ones who want us to have all the freedom in the world (as long as we know our place and consume consistently).  it wouldn't fit politically at all for them to go this far however logical it might be. 

I'd love to think they just know it isn't THAT bad, and have a reasonable idea that it's pretty much over (backed up by those low hospitalization figures in Leicester etc), but need to feed that slowly and see what happens . But that's crediting them with the capacity to have such a plan, which I doubt...

[FestivalJamie]

52 minutes ago, LJS said:

According to this, you still have to self isolate for 14 days even if you test negative.

https://fullfact.org/health/what-are-quarantine-rules-if-you-return-uk-abroad/

"Even if you have Covid-19 symptoms and recover from them during your quarantine, or even if you are tested and receive a negative result, you will need to remain in self-isolation for the full 14 days after arriving in the UK. "

Someone said above it’s due to false negatives coming through. Which comes to my next point, unrelated but I need advice!

—

So, my friend was due to be holding an outdoor bbq tomorrow, and I was planning on going because it was for her birthday. It is slightly above the recommended allowance of 6 people but I thought it would be ok as I would just plan to stay outdoors and keep my 2m apart. And I thought it might be good for my mental health to get back out there and see my friends, albeit slightly breaching the guidelines.

Subsequently, the weather has taken a turn for the worse and it’s been said it “might have to be indoors”. I don’t really feel comfortable meeting 7-8 others indoors, even if I’m keeping a social distance, so that has already left me hesitant. But I was feeling guilty, she’s a good friend and it’s her birthday, so I was still thinking about going, but spending as much time as possible outside and constantly keeping a 2m distance.

Then things have taken a rocky turn. Earlier this week she was contact traced as someone at her work has tested positive. She was told to isolate and get a test. Her test has come back negative. She is still holding the gathering tomorrow now as the test was negative. This is where it is hazy to me, can the isolation end on the basis of a negative test result. Isn’t there a 20%-30% chance of an inaccurate result or something? Bearing in mind she took the test at the beginning of this week and she’s only been isolating since Monday, so perhaps the virus would still be “incubating” or something and it would show up negative as it hasn’t developed yet I don’t know? it took 4 days for the results to come back!

I’m not sure how many breaches of guidance I can handle at once. I understand it’s completely not my responsibility or decision about self isolation and I’m not aware whether you should end your isolation earlier based on the test result or not. But I just think it might all become a bit stressful with it being over the recommended allowance of people coupled with the fact it could be a false-negative or something like that. I wouldn’t want to risk spreading the virus and putting my family at risk for the sake of having one nice fun gathering. Which would now probably be quite stressful for me due to the whole change in circumstances.

Any thoughts on this one?

 

[Ozanne]

22 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

As in his '4am Saturday night' statement?

Perhaps it's what comes of working with data on a daily basis but I'd certainly have looked for clarification around that statement before just assuming it meant 4pm Saturday night or 4am Sunday morning.

He said on Sky News it’s from Sunday 4am, now if you are one of us that constantly looks at those things you’ll have heard that and through it was Sunday morning. 

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Someone said above it’s due to false negatives coming through. Which comes to my next point, unrelated but I need advice!

—

So, my friend was due to be holding an outdoor bbq tomorrow, and I was planning on going because it was for her birthday. It is slightly above the recommended allowance of 6 people but I thought it would be ok as I would just plan to stay outdoors and keep my 2m apart. And I thought it might be good for my mental health to get back out there and see my friends, albeit slightly breaching the guidelines.

Subsequently, the weather has taken a turn for the worse and it’s been said it “might have to be indoors”. I don’t really feel comfortable meeting 7-8 others indoors, even if I’m keeping a social distance, so that has already left me hesitant. But I was feeling guilty, she’s a good friend and it’s her birthday, so I was still thinking about going, but spending as much time as possible outside and constantly keeping a 2m distance.

Then things have taken a rocky turn. Earlier this week she was contact traced as someone at her work has tested positive. She was told to isolate and get a test. Her test has come back negative. She is still holding the gathering tomorrow now as the test was negative. This is where it is hazy to me, can the isolation end on the basis of a negative test result. Isn’t there a 20%-30% chance of an inaccurate result or something? Bearing in mind she took the test at the beginning of this week and she’s only been isolating since Monday, so perhaps the virus would still be “incubating” or something and it would show up negative as it hasn’t developed yet I don’t know? it took 4 days for the results to come back!

I’m not sure how many breaches of guidance I can handle at once. I understand it’s completely not my responsibility or decision about self isolation and I’m not aware whether you should end your isolation earlier based on the test result or not. But I just think it might all become a bit stressful with it being over the recommended allowance of people coupled with the fact it could be a false-negative or something like that. I wouldn’t want to risk spreading the virus and putting my family at risk for the sake of having one nice fun gathering. Which would now probably be quite stressful for me due to the whole change in circumstances.

Any thoughts on this one?

 

Personally I wouldn’t go especially as it’s been moved inside and with the extra added part of the being in contact with someone. Whilst there’s a negative test which would give me confidence to see that person outside or with less people for me there’s too many extra parts.

You seem at a stage a bit back from me as I’ve just started going to pubs etc and I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that. 

[shoptildrop]

5 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

He said on Sky News it’s from Sunday 4am, now if you are one of us that constantly looks at those things you’ll have heard that and through it was Sunday morning. 

BBC breaking news last night stated 4am Saturday morning 

 

[FestivalJamie]

So is it Saturday 4am or Sunday 4am.

Normally it’s Saturday 4am and as @shoptildrop said it says Saturday 4am on bbc news!

8 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Personally I wouldn’t go especially as it’s been moved inside and with the extra added part of the being in contact with someone. Whilst there’s a negative test which would give me confidence to see that person outside or with less people for me there’s too many extra parts.

You seem at a stage a bit back from me as I’ve just started going to pubs etc and I wouldn’t feel comfortable with that. 

I’ve decided I’m not going to go. There’s always a small chance it’s a false negative and you are right; it’s indoors and too many people for me to be comfortable with coupled with the contact trace thing. Tis the second gathering I’ve dodged this week!

Definitely a stage back from you, but I’m booking in for an indoor Thai restaurant next week so that will be my first major step out of the house into an indoor public space. And I definitely feel more comfortable about that than going to this gathering tomorrow!

[Ozanne]

5 minutes ago, shoptildrop said:

BBC breaking news last night stated 4am Saturday morning 

 

Yes but I’m talking about the Transport Minister on Sky News saying it was 4am Sunday morning. 

[Ozanne]

1 minute ago, FestivalJamie said:

So is it Saturday 4am or Sunday 4am.

Normally it’s Saturday 4am and as @shoptildrop said it says Saturday 4am on bbc news!

I’ve decided I’m not going to go. There’s always a small chance it’s a false negative and you are right; it’s indoors and too many people for me to be comfortable with coupled with the contact trace thing. Tis the second gathering I’ve dodged this week!

Definitely a stage back from you, but I’m booking in for an indoor Thai restaurant next week so that will be my first major step out of the house into an indoor public space. And I definitely feel more comfortable about that than going to this gathering tomorrow!

I think you’ve made the right call mate, well done!

[onthebeach]

30 minutes ago, pryce said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53772459

 

interesting article, shocking at how few hospital admissions there were in Leicester, would of expected a few more especially the areas in the city it was spreading which has quite a large BAME and elderly population. would be interested to see a breakdown in ages of those affected in leicester

It’s here - up to the 2nd August - smaller numbers of 65+

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/907706/Contain_Framework_LTLA_week32.pdf

[Ozanne]

This is the bit I was talking, ok he doesn’t say 4am but does say Sunday. 

[parsonjack]

1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

This is the bit I was talking, ok he doesn’t say 4am but does say Sunday. 

He says '4am Saturday night' on here at 01:10

https://news.sky.com/video/shapps-brits-can-finish-french-hols-12048948

What a balls up.....I'd still have checked before making plans though.

[efcfanwirral]

3 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

He says '4am Saturday night' on here at 01:10

https://news.sky.com/video/shapps-brits-can-finish-french-hols-12048948

What a balls up.....I'd still have checked before making plans though.

They can't even get things fully right when they're....doing something right. It's ridiculous. 

Edited August 14, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Ozanne]

3 minutes ago, parsonjack said:

He says '4am Saturday night' on here at 01:10

https://news.sky.com/video/shapps-brits-can-finish-french-hols-12048948

What a balls up.....I'd still have checked before making plans though.

He also tweeted this last night too.