When will this shit end?

[Ozanne]

7 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

100% agree with this. I feel very much the same. 

I feel the same as you guys. I feel really conflicted as my friends are starting to do more and will happily breach guidelines but I’m not so happy to do that. I feel like I’m a being a square and feel guilty either way.

Its a thing with the cinema at the moment. 3 of us from 3 different households. They want to travel there all together in the same car, eat at Nando’s and sit together. Which isn’t what we are allowed to do, I feel bad for being the one to being up what we are allowed to do as they said they are happy with breaking the rules.

[zahidf]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I feel the same as you guys. I feel really conflicted as my friends are starting to do more and will happily breach guidelines but I’m not so happy to do that. I feel like I’m a being a square and feel guilty either way.

Its a thing with the cinema at the moment. 3 of us from 3 different households. They want to travel there all together in the same car, eat at Nando’s and sit together. Which isn’t what we are allowed to do, I feel bad for being the one to being up what we are allowed to do as they said they are happy with breaking the rules.

Yeah I'm having dinner with people from more than 2 households regularly 

[whitehorses]

2 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Does anyone actually pay any the attention to the restrictions around meeting in other peoples houses etc? I'd be amazed if most people bothered. 

Have seen no evidence of people paying attention to that particular advice 

[Zoo Music Girl]

I just find it a bit mad that the government can make a big song and dance about the local lockdown measures being introduced, but ultimately there is no way of enforcing anything so they can say what they like. That's how it seems to me.

Fully agree the advice is confusing and I'm sure we all fall foul of the guidelines sometimes. I'm sure I have and I've been cautious throughout. I don't know, I just really get a back to normal vibe from everywhere now.

[funkychick2007]

My conflict is between work and home!!! At work yesterday I had to go on a 7hr round trip on a train to visit another household in the north of the country!!! 
At home I have tried to keep to the rules meeting family and friends outside In their gardens!!! 
Now I have the dilemma the risk to my family and friends has increased due to being at work!!! 
The annoying thing is It is not okay for me to visit households at work in my local area! This is done by zoom calls but it is okay for me to make a 7 hr train journey!!! 
Makes no sense what’s so ever!!! 

[Homer]

1 hour ago, squirrelarmy said:

 

I don’t know why bed factories in particular are being hotspots for the virus. 

That's just pillowtalk.

[Homer]

1 hour ago, DeanoL said:

I think loads of people are in the same boat. We're still being very cautious - have had no-one round except our one local friend who lives alone and joined our bubble. All of us work from home, get groceries delievered. We've been in shops twice since the lockdown started, both times to pick up necessities we missed from the grocery delivery. 

The idea of going to a pub seems crazy.

We're thinking of having another friend around the weekend to play board games in the garden but aren't sure if that's wise. We might finally go see my parents the end of the month but we're still cautious about that.

Lots of people are doing the same. It's not reported, as it's not as exciting as the drunken revellers ignoring distancing in the pubs. But when you see how busy these pubs really aren't, it's quite obvious that a lot of people are taking the cautious approach. Especially as pubs and restaurants are open but the other things people do still aren't (gigs, evening classes, team sports, etc) yet the pubs are relatively quiet.

Team sports are allowed FYI.

[zahidf]

Apparently flights are packed with no social distancing

[FestivalJamie]

9 hours ago, stuie said:

But from the tone of your posts you seem more worried than most.  Are you that worried for yourself, family, others, general society? 
 

I hope you don’t mind me asking! 

Oh it’s not a problem at all, by nature I am quite a “stressful” person, I always get nervous before exams, sporting competitions etc, but I do have to admit life at the moment for me is a different kind of tension to any of that before.

I can’t say I’m particularly nervous about the health implications to myself, I’m 19 and have no health conditions, but at the same time I wouldn’t want to end up with long term lung damage or the like that this virus could be causing.

One of the reasons for my such cautious and worried perspective is that my aunt had it really awfully back in April and has been having relapses since. She has practically told me to not do anything inside as she says that risks are virtually zero outside but really quite increased once you go indoors due to poor ventilation- she is worried about catching the virus again and having it worse than the first time; she says she’s always wanted to climb Everest but now she doesn’t think she will ever be able to do that as the virus has given her breathing difficulties which make it harder to exercise.

Im worried about my mum, she has breathing problems and is worried about that meaning she could get seriously ill from the virus, but my dad is insistent that he’s had the virus and if he has then we would have all been asymptomatic anyway, but not sure about that as this was back at the end of January (although it was circulating back then).

I think I’m also worried about me being the cause of community spread. If I flout  distancing guidelines and I’m an asymptomatic carrier, I could be the cause of someone else hospitalisation. To me that’s a pretty scary thought, and it’s why I'm so vigilant about social distancing, mask wearing and hand hygiene, and I get extremely annoyed when people don’t bother with any of those things as it’s not only putting themselves at risk, I just feel like it’s putting other more vulnerable people at risk if the virus gets out of control again.

Also the fact we have the highest death toll in Europe doesn’t reassure me that the government will be able to handle an increase in cases like we are currently experiencing. Maybe if I was living in germany I would be more relaxed as I have more trust in Angela merkel and the death rates are so much lower, but I just feel like in england there is nothing stopping the virus running out of control again and killing thousands more people and destroying the economy. I feel like I have to do my bit to stop this virus running out of control. If we all stop bothering to social distance, then we will end up back at square one.

I don’t know, it’s a weird one for me, I’m not nervous about myself, just nervous about how my actions and others actions could affect someone else I guess. It’s a really complicated one for me. I’m worried about my grandma and my great aunt too, but my grandma is socialising more than me and technically breaking guidelines, but then I feel a need to make sure I’m doing everything I can to protect her. It’s a really difficult situation.

At the end of the day health and economy are linked. Back in March the government were fixated on economy, so the healthcare system completely collapsed. Then the economy collapsed with it. If we have another serious outbreak they both need to be controlled. If you don’t manage the health of the public, the economy will also fall with it. If we reach 5000 daily cases or the like, I’m sure lots of people will voluntarily stop going out unless they have to, so the economy will fall even if the healthcare system isn’t overwhelmed.

Keep cases low, the economy can thrive. They are linked, and therefore the gov should be doing everything they can to suppress the virus. We never even managed to get cases anywhere near as low as Italy, germany and Spain did (before resurgence) so I don’t have much confidence we can put it to bed now and get the economy running again.

 

Edited August 12, 2020 by FestivalJamie

[Leyrulion]

Is the increase in cases actual new cases or are we just better detecting the ones that were already there?

 

Back in June they estimated we had about 2,000 cases a day but only 800 or so actually positive on tests. 

 

[zahidf]

Yuck

 

[FestivalJamie]

16 minutes ago, Leyrulion said:

Is the increase in cases actual new cases or are we just better detecting the ones that were already there?

 

Back in June they estimated we had about 2,000 cases a day but only 800 or so actually positive on tests. 

 

As a whole, over the last few weeks I believe the positive rate has remained similar.

But over the last few days testing has remained relatively constant but cases have been increasing, which to me signals a slight rise in cases.

[DeanoL]

56 minutes ago, whitehorses said:

Have seen no evidence of people paying attention to that particular advice 

You wouldn't see evidence of what people are doing in their homes for obvious reasons...

It's easy to feel like you're in the minority for following the rules or being even more cautious, because you only ever see the people not following the rules, and being less cautious.

On top of this is the fact that the people going out at the moment to pubs and so on are, in the majority, the extroverts that need that human connection. Often for the sake of their mental health. Those people will tend to have larger social groups so again, you're more likely to be part of that group. 

You don't see the millions of introverts who really don't think going to the pub is worth the risk right now. Because they're at home, and have smaller social groups that you're less likely to be a part of.

This isn't all conjecture. Restaurants and pubs are running at reduced capacity but go have a look and see if you can get a table for Saturday night right now. You probably can. Footfall on opening weekend for pubs (when you'd expect the novelty would make demand higher) was down 50% https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-8501451/Spending-data-suggests-trips-pub-lagged-pre-lockdown-averages.html

Plenty of people are still staying in. We're just not seeing them because they're, well, in.

[steviewevie]

 

[efcfanwirral]

32 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Oh it’s not a problem at all, by nature I am quite a “stressful” person, I always get nervous before exams, sporting competitions etc, but I do have to admit life at the moment for me is a different kind of tension to any of that before.

I can’t say I’m particularly nervous about the health implications to myself, I’m 19 and have no health conditions, but at the same time I wouldn’t want to end up with long term lung damage or the like that this virus could be causing.

One of the reasons for my such cautious and worried perspective is that my aunt had it really awfully back in April and has been having relapses since. She has practically told me to not do anything inside as she says that risks are virtually zero outside but really quite increased once you go indoors due to poor ventilation- she is worried about catching the virus again and having it worse than the first time; she says she’s always wanted to climb Everest but now she doesn’t think she will ever be able to do that as the virus has given her breathing difficulties which make it harder to exercise.

Im worried about my mum, she has breathing problems and is worried about that meaning she could get seriously ill from the virus, but my dad is insistent that he’s had the virus and if he has then we would have all been asymptomatic anyway, but not sure about that as this was back at the end of January (although it was circulating back then).

I think I’m also worried about me being the cause of community spread. If I flout  distancing guidelines and I’m an asymptomatic carrier, I could be the cause of someone else hospitalisation. To me that’s a pretty scary thought, and it’s why I'm so vigilant about social distancing, mask wearing and hand hygiene, and I get extremely annoyed when people don’t bother with any of those things as it’s not only putting themselves at risk, I just feel like it’s putting other more vulnerable people at risk if the virus gets out of control again.

Also the fact we have the highest death toll in Europe doesn’t reassure me that the government will be able to handle an increase in cases like we are currently experiencing. Maybe if I was living in germany I would be more relaxed as I have more trust in Angela merkel and the death rates are so much lower, but I just feel like in england there is nothing stopping the virus running out of control again and killing thousands more people and destroying the economy. I feel like I have to do my bit to stop this virus running out of control. If we all stop bothering to social distance, then we will end up back at square one.

I don’t know, it’s a weird one for me, I’m not nervous about myself, just nervous about how my actions and others actions could affect someone else I guess. It’s a really complicated one for me. I’m worried about my grandma and my great aunt too, but my grandma is socialising more than me and technically breaking guidelines, but then I feel a need to make sure I’m doing everything I can to protect her. It’s a really difficult situation.

At the end of the day health and economy are linked. Back in March the government were fixated on economy, so the healthcare system completely collapsed. Then the economy collapsed with it. If we have another serious outbreak they both need to be controlled. If you don’t manage the health of the public, the economy will also fall with it. If we reach 5000 daily cases or the like, I’m sure lots of people will voluntarily stop going out unless they have to, so the economy will fall even if the healthcare system isn’t overwhelmed.

Keep cases low, the economy can thrive. They are linked, and therefore the gov should be doing everything they can to suppress the virus. We never even managed to get cases anywhere near as low as Italy, germany and Spain did (before resurgence) so I don’t have much confidence we can put it to bed now and get the economy running again.

 

This is kinda where I'm at with it - I think it's just a little early to decide that it's all over ahead of winter. People are in a false sense of security because it's summer and that while we MIGHT be wrong about what happens when everyone moves everything inside, and is less healthy in general (remember the Vitamin D debate?) surely we should be exercising some caution. Which many are and I'm happy with that. 

Though I'll freely admit I don't want to risk those long term effects as much as I don't want to spread it to people who'll get it worse.

Now if we were told "right there will be no vaccine, we're dealing with this now" then I'd change my mind on it. I'd take the risks, and we'd treat this like the flu - where lots of people sadly die from it each year, and yes a lot get those long term effects too, but we don't get a daily death count.  

But if the vaccine comes in soon (as is most likely by the sounds of it) that reduces the most severe effects, and also that time giving them a bit longer to develop even better treatments or research EXACTLY who is at risk of getting those long term symptoms and why (beyond just "age" and "pre existing conditions". And there is always the miracle option like what happened to SARS etc.  

I end up asking myself is it really worth taking lots risks just for the sake of a little bit longer to get either the solution or the evidence that its safe? There is actually a good chance of an end in sight even if it doesn't feel like it day to day sometimes. 

Personally none of the activities I enjoy doing are allowed anyway, and  I've already vowed never to spend as much as I did in pubs again after the amount I've saved. A whole summer of festivals cancelled, foreign travel sounding extremely unappealing and the more standard indoor gigs feel like a long way off. So why not just preserve my health (and money!) for when those things are available again?

Obviously others are different, and people who's mental health suffers from not doing normal things need to socialise, need a change of scene etc and I get that, but that's what masks and distancing are for.  I may meet up with friends in outdoor environments but it's fair to say I'm not desperate for a Nandos...

But then I suppose the more of us who are being cautious, the more the economy dies and I accept that will kill more people than the virus. It's a difficult one - normality does need to come back and yesterday. Especially as our "self imposed trade sanctions" are coming in January.  I am pretty conflicted on that side of things, but as said above my own usual contributions to the economy aren't exactly available, and I'm not just wasting my money on some shitty fast food instead

Edited August 12, 2020 by efcfanwirral

[Crazyfool01]

11 hours ago, FestivalJamie said:

@crazyfool1 on the subject of masks for shop workers, how is it at your store now? I think last you said was they are having words with other colleagues and percentages have been increasing, which would be good if that’s the case!

unfortunately no real positive news to report on this .... I feel like im hammering my head on a brick wall talking to colleagues individually and its not really helping my mental health .... ive obviously sent the two emails to head office now .... and think that the next thing will be a good old fashioned paper letter .... ive had no response directly to me .... fortunately the regional manager is based in our store so its quite easy to speak to him ...will see if I can grab him next monday or he will possibly find a letter on his desk aswell 

[steviewevie]

That Atantic article in the tweet posted above is worth a read...you get a few free reads before hidden behind a paywall...it's long...

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/08/why-britain-failed-coronavirus-pandemic/615166

[steviewevie]

In the grand scheme of things...climate change is a much bigger crisis than this coronavirus.

[squirrelarmy]

6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

In the grand scheme of things...climate change is a much bigger crisis than this coronavirus.

Over population is also a factor. Highly controversial but maybe extending our lifespans beyond their natural limits isn’t a good move for the planet. 
 

When I was at school the population of the planet was around 5 billion. Now we’re getting close to 8 billion. 
 

Perhaps this virus is the planets way of fighting back and trying to control the spread of its biggest threat. 

[Sdsm123]

17 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

My brother in law works on the customs boats in the channel and the shit he gets from people for rescuing the migrants is horrific ..... at the moment though hes just completed his leg ( without a leg ) in a channel swim and the team have made the crossing ... so thats the sort of news these tv companies should be all over 

I love the job your brother in law is doing! we need more people like him to stop the surge! 

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Sdsm123 said:

I love the job your brother in law is doing! we need more people like him to stop the surge! 

hes helping people ... thats the job role ... keeping people safe ... 

[Sdsm123]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

hes helping people ... thats the job role ... keeping people safe ... 

hes helping the British public protect our sovereign border

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Sdsm123 said:

hes helping the British public protect our sovereign border

A friendly person that helps desperate people that are fleeing wars and persecution elsewhere often brought on by weapons sold by the uk ... customs officers have no powers to turn people around by the way .... Im proud that hes helping these people 

[steviewevie]

5 minutes ago, Sdsm123 said:

hes helping the British public protect our sovereign border

how is he doing that?

[BobWillis]

23 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

A friendly person that helps desperate people that are fleeing wars and persecution elsewhere often brought on by weapons sold by the uk ... customs officers have no powers to turn people around by the way .... Im proud that hes helping these people 

What war is there in France?