When will this shit end?

[Sdsm123]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

or they could be putting the lives of the employees at risk ? would this be somewhere you would like to work ? its that lives verses livelihood debate .... if I worked there id be in bits !!

I just think it’s disgusting, I wonder what public health would say if a outbreak was linked to their shop

[Cream Soda]

Just now, shoptildrop said:

Tbh they've set themselves up to be closed with that sign, so I wouldn't worry too much about it as their actions are their responsibility and they have to deal with any subsequent consequences just like the rest of us  

Yes they will,  and I don't have an issue with that it's just the way it's turning people against each other that I don't feel comfortable with. I actually think people would stop going in of their own accord and the shop would realise they had to change their policy eventually.  I don't think it's necessary for individuals to be grassing anyone else up to the authorities, as you say they will pay the price one way or the other eventually anyway. I will personally be making sure I am doing the right thing and not stressing out about what others are doing .

[FestivalJamie]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

or they could be putting the lives of the employees at risk ? would this be somewhere you would like to work ? its that lives verses livelihood debate .... if I worked there id be in bits !!

Same. I don’t think they should be allowed to operate, it’s an unsafe environment and HSE should not let that shop be open, in the interest of public health and safety.

Im sorry, but if their livelihoods are at stake and they don’t want to get closed down don’t put that sign on your door and ban people with masks. Essentially they need to stop being a***holes. Expect to get shut down if you are operating your business like that in a pandemic.

[shoptildrop]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

or they could be putting the lives of the employees at risk ? would this be somewhere you would like to work ? its that lives verses livelihood debate .... if I worked there id be in bits !!

yep and there's that....  

[shoptildrop]

Just now, Cream Soda said:

Yes they will,  and I don't have an issue with that it's just the way it's turning people against each other that I don't feel comfortable with. I actually think people would stop going in of their own accord and the shop would realise they had to change their policy eventually.  I don't think it's necessary for individuals to be grassing anyone else up to the authorities, as you say they will pay the price one way or the other eventually anyway. I will personally be making sure I am doing the right thing and not stressing out about what others are doing .

you can only control what you control... that's the mantra I live by usually and think it's very applicable in this pandemic 

[Crazyfool01]

2 minutes ago, Sdsm123 said:

I just think it’s disgusting, I wonder what public health would say if a outbreak was linked to their shop

this is a point I was making earlier to some of the people I work with that were outraged at our store manager actively walking about and asking colleagues why they weren't wearing facemasks .... people seemed offended that he should do such a thing as they weren't required by law for staff ... I had to tell them that ultimately his neck is on the block for health and safety within the store !!

[Zoo Music Girl]

I think they would just be fined and told to comply wouldn't they? In the first instance?

There's a difference between bending the rules/not enforcing them and being deliberately provocative, which seems to be what they are doing. 

[shoptildrop]

1 hour ago, FestivalJamie said:

Quarantine from Spain looks official now, just been put onto BBC news... so seems pretty much confirmed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53540691

This shows all the Spanish Islands included too, as people wondering about Tenerife on twitter

 

 

[stuartbert two hats]

1 hour ago, Cream Soda said:

I see your point too, but this is clearly a small independent shop, whilever the big chains are complying then I think most others will too.  I just think its wrong to deliberately set out to get someone's livelihood shut down when they could have a parter, kids etc who are totally blameless in this situation who would then be affected.  It wasn't even said to report them so they could be educated or given a chance to comply, it was just to get them shut down and that's that.  This doesn't sit right with me. 

If a shop bragged about their use of exposed asbestos, would you support reporting them?

[Sdsm123]

Just now, stuartbert two hats said:

If a shop bragged about their use of exposed asbestos, would you support reporting them?

That’s such a good way of looking at it , have an upvote

[shoptildrop]

OMFG you can't make this sh*t up!! 😂

 

 

[Cream Soda]

47 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

If a shop bragged about their use of exposed asbestos, would you support reporting them?

I don't think that's really an equivalent comparison, staff don't have to wear masks in any shop and many are not..I don't really see how staff and what I presume is a small amount of customers In that shop also not wearing them equates to something like asbestos when you compare that to the scenes in some pubs. Its not right and I'm not saying for a moment that it is, but I would personally just opt to go elsewhere.

[dotdash79]

43 minutes ago, shoptildrop said:

OMFG you can't make this sh*t up!! 😂

 

 

This is almost as funny as Chris Grayling losing a rigged election, man I’m still laughing about that 

[The other Bellboy]

4 hours ago, Sdsm123 said:

i just don’t get why they aren’t testing everyone entering the country? Surely we could really minimise imported cases that way

We are testing everyone who returns to New Zealand and so far out of about 48000 people who have returned there have been maybe 40 positive results, that doesn't sound like a lot but if they had all been allowed straight in then we know how that number would have multiplied and we would have been back up the alert levels. Its been almost 3 months since a community transfer case but this would not have been the situation without border testing and quarantine.

[Sdsm123]

5 minutes ago, The other Bellboy said:

We are testing everyone who returns to New Zealand and so far out of about 48000 people who have returned there have been maybe 40 positive results, that doesn't sound like a lot but if they had all been allowed straight in then we know how that number would have multiplied and we would have been back up the alert levels. Its been almost 3 months since a community transfer case but this would not have been the situation without border testing and quarantine.

Exactly those 40 cases if missed is enough to make thing spiral again

[Radiochicken]

Christ, this gov is inept. Shambles.

The non-essential travel doesn’t cover Balearic Islands... but you still have to quarantine?!?!

Anyone got any idea why they’ve added a quarantine for a place they are happy for you to travel to and from?!

I’ve got a holiday booked pre-COVID in a few weeks there, so now either:

1) Don’t go, lose all the money and no holiday

OR;

2) Go, but some of the group can’t come (they are teachers and can’t quarantine for that long) + have to quarantine myself.

🤷‍♂️

(And yes, of course I know people have bigger problems right now! So take this rant with a pinch of salt!!!)

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Radiochicken

[DeanoL]

5 hours ago, Cream Soda said:

It's like we were talking about earlier, the 99% are complying and this will mitigate the risk massively.  Is it really worth trying to mop up the last remaining few by actively trying to get people to lose their businesses?  If people don't like it they will go elsewhere and the business will lose out anyway.  

What happens if people *do* like it though? What if they start getting more business because they're doing this? Mask wearing is not actively popular. We know this because when it was merely advised bugger all people were actually doing it. Now it's the law, people are complying. These are not people who want to wear masks. Just people that won't break the law.

They see a shop where they're being told not to wear a mask, they'll see that a green light. Maybe other shops notice this shop is doing well and so change their policy. And suddenly you're finding lots of shops you can't go it safely.

The asbestos comparison is good, another way of looking at it is a pub going "we allow smoking in this pub" - do you just say "live and let live" and let them get on with it? 

[MrZigster]

3 hours ago, shoptildrop said:

OMFG you can't make this sh*t up!! 😂

If that's true...

Let's make sure he does (quarantine) then.

It's been argued (probably correctly imo) that the quarantine guidance is pretty much unenforceable (much like lots of previous guidance). But possibly not if you're that much of a public figure?

If he's seen out anywhere in the fortnight after he gets back he should be hounded until he's done for. No excuses. But you can bet they'll find them if need be though (ahem, forgotten Cummings already have we?).

And what an excuse to get an extra two weeks off of work eh? "I've been to Spain. We were told it was cool".

And then they're going to still take their annual recess aren't they! Despite a pandemic and a really important breakaway on the agenda.

Just wtf? And me and the likes of me are being belittled by Boris into getting back to work on the front line precisely to deal face to face with these types that have just had to (and can afford to) go and have their annual European break.

When will this shit end?

Edited July 26, 2020 by MrZigster

[steviewevie]

I don't know..he's just gone to spain for a holiday, that's all. LIke a lot of people, all in the same boat now. I'm sure he'll quarantine because the press will be all over it.

[Crazyfool01]

22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

I don't know..he's just gone to spain for a holiday, that's all. LIke a lot of people, all in the same boat now. I'm sure he'll quarantine because the press will be all over it.

I think you are mistakenly crediting the govt with either a level of intelligence / actually caring !! 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Schapps is nowhere near as important to the government as Cummings. If he fucks up quarantine and they have to get rid then they will I'm sure.

[Cream Soda]

9 hours ago, DeanoL said:

What happens if people *do* like it though? What if they start getting more business because they're doing this? Mask wearing is not actively popular. We know this because when it was merely advised bugger all people were actually doing it. Now it's the law, people are complying. These are not people who want to wear masks. Just people that won't break the law.

They see a shop where they're being told not to wear a mask, they'll see that a green light. Maybe other shops notice this shop is doing well and so change their policy. And suddenly you're finding lots of shops you can't go it safely.

I get your point but like I said before I don't think that will happen as we have so many large chains, supermarkets etc keeping everyone in line.  This shop (if the sign is even real) is the exception to the rule, its the equivalent of that 1 person pretending they have a medical condition when they don't just to get away with not wearing a mask.  I don't think the other 99% of people are going to follow suit with that either.

9 hours ago, DeanoL said:

The asbestos comparison is good, another way of looking at it is a pub going "we allow smoking in this pub" - do you just say "live and let live" and let them get on with it? 

I think smoking is a better comparison but I still think I would just make the decision as an adult of whether that bothered me enough to stop me going in or not.  Would I go home, look up who to report it to and make a phone call?  No..I don't think I would.  Maybe that's wrong of me I don't know.  But I wouldn't do that anymore than I would report seeing drugs being openly taken at Glastonbury for example.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, Cream Soda said:

I get your point but like I said before I don't think that will happen as we have so many large chains, supermarkets etc keeping everyone in line.  This shop (if the sign is even real) is the exception to the rule, its the equivalent of that 1 person pretending they have a medical condition when they don't just to get away with not wearing a mask.  I don't think the other 99% of people are going to follow suit with that either.

I think smoking is a better comparison but I still think I would just make the decision as an adult of whether that bothered me enough to stop me going in or not.  Would I go home, look up who to report it to and make a phone call?  No..I don't think I would.  Maybe that's wrong of me I don't know.  But I wouldn't do that anymore than I would report seeing drugs being openly taken at Glastonbury for example.

I don't think it's analogous to the person pretending to have a medical condition. Its more like someone shouting proudly about not wearing a mask because they don't want to, as it's done so blatantly.

I probably wouldn't report them myself if I'm honest, but I do think businesses have to take a certain amount of responsibility when it comes to public health.

[Cream Soda]

2 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I probably wouldn't report them myself if I'm honest, but I do think businesses have to take a certain amount of responsibility when it comes to public health.

Yeah I don't disagree with that, it's more the attitude of going out with our pitchforks to actively try and shut businesses down that I don't feel comfortable with.

[stuartbert two hats]

5 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I get your point but like I said before I don't think that will happen as we have so many large chains, supermarkets etc keeping everyone in line.  This shop (if the sign is even real) is the exception to the rule, its the equivalent of that 1 person pretending they have a medical condition when they don't just to get away with not wearing a mask.  I don't think the other 99% of people are going to follow suit with that either.

I think smoking is a better comparison but I still think I would just make the decision as an adult of whether that bothered me enough to stop me going in or not.  Would I go home, look up who to report it to and make a phone call?  No..I don't think I would.  Maybe that's wrong of me I don't know.  But I wouldn't do that anymore than I would report seeing drugs being openly taken at Glastonbury for example.

I agree that smoking is probably a better comparison. It's certainly way better than taking drugs, since that's about harm to the person taking drugs, not to everyone else.

But it's actually worse than both asbestos or smoking, since people who are affected by second hand smoke don't start giving their family cancer. It's not a personal responsibility issue, it's a societal responsibility issue.

As I say, fuck these people.