When will this shit end?

[Cream Soda]

1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Do you think it will be cancelled? It's only a month away.

No sorry, I meant I can't see Glastonbury going ahead with social distancing.

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, Cream Soda said:

No sorry, I meant I can't see Glastonbury going ahead with social distancing.

Ah right yeah.

[Crazyfool01]

10 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

There isn't and having been an SIA Door Supervisor for 12 years, we haven't got no more powers than you. 

A 5 day training course and a £210 license gives them zilch powers or anything more than shop staff have.

Do you happen to know the Asda policies ? 

[Paul ™]

9 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Well just because it comes under the remit of security. They stop shoplifters don't they?

As can anyone such as shop staff as it's a criminal offence under statute law.

Not wearing a mask is not a statute law and not enforceable by Joe public, only the police and council enforcement officers

Edited July 24, 2020 by Paul ™

[Paul ™]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

Do you happen to know the Asda policies ? 

No but what's that relevant too? Are the above the law?

[Zoo Music Girl]

1 minute ago, Paul ™ said:

As can anyone such as shop staff as it's a criminal offence under statute law.

Wonder why they bother to hire them at all then! Seems a bit pointless.

[Paul ™]

Just now, Zoo Music Girl said:

Wonder why they bother to hire them at all then! Seems a bit pointless.

Visual deterrent. And for insurance purposes

[Zoo Music Girl]

Yeah I was just thinking probably a visual deterrent. 

[Zoo Music Girl]

But actually as a visual deterrent that could also work on the mask front. As it did with the security guard at the hospital.

[Crazyfool01]

...

2 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

Visual deterrent. And for insurance purposes

glad you posted that ... It was something I was heading towards .... although my experience  of my colleagues stepping away from people trying to leave the store differs somewhat from the outside security approach 

[Paul ™]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

...

glad you posted that ... It was something I was heading towards .... although my experience  of my colleagues stepping away from people trying to leave the store differs somewhat from the outside security approach 

I'd suggest that's probably more down to the training in conflict management and physical intervention as part not the SIA course that I guess your shop staff don't have.

Ironically Asda are one of the main supermarkets that still have inhouse security teams and they ar exempt from having an SIA licence..

[Ozanne]

Another things is that next year testing will be better, so in theory you can get a test a few days before negating any need to socially distance in site.

As we are seeing we are having socially distanced events already this summer there is no way that won’t change and it’ll stay as is for another 12 months. 

[funkychick2007]

24 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

There isn't and having been an SIA Door Supervisor for 12 years, we haven't got no more powers than you. 

A 5 day training course and a £210 license gives them zilch powers or anything more than shop staff have.

Absolutely correct! The police are the only ones who can enforce the law!! My licence doesn’t give me any more legal powers than anyone else! Same at a festival!! Security are there to negotiate and de-escalate not enforce the law!! 
 

[Zoo Music Girl]

21 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Nor me, which is why I can't see it happening and therefore can't see non socially distanced events going ahead for the foreseeable.

So this is what it says in the FAQs when asked if social distancing will be enforced: "Yes. The event site is large enough to enable socially responsible customers to maintain appropriate distances from each other during the event while having a good time. We will provide full details in due course. Any individual or group who persistently act outside of government guidance will be ejected from the event without refund."

So it sounds like they'll have stewards around trying to stop people standing too close to each other? Honestly don't know how you can manage that well once people are pissed. 

[Paul ™]

6 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

But actually as a visual deterrent that could also work on the mask front. As it did with the security guard at the hospital.

Indeed but they can't enforce it, only the police can.

If someone comes up and tries to get in without a mask and gets arsey about it then turns round and say they have exemption from a mask, that can also cause issues.

I've seen people post on social media that no one at a shop etc has the right to ask about why they are not wearing one, and I can see their point too.. lots of hidden disabilities etc 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Paul ™ said:

I'd suggest that's probably more down to the training in conflict management and physical intervention as part not the SIA course that I guess your shop staff don't have.

Ironically Asda are one of the main supermarkets that still have inhouse security teams and they ar exempt from having an SIA licence..

quite possibly ... what I do know is that they are far more effective than the shit show we have had over probably the last 5 years ... we used to have security managers at one point but they have long gone .... but the SIA guys on the door were far better than the in-house and masks today amongst customers was outstanding as a result 

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just now, Paul ™ said:

Indeed but they can't enforce it, only the police can.

If someone comes up and tries to get in without a mask and gets arsey about it then turns round and say they have exemption from a mask, that can also cause issues.

I've seen people post on social media that no one at a shop etc has the right to ask about why they are not wearing one, and I can see their point too.. lots of hidden disabilities etc 

Yeah I get that. Fair enough. I think a lot of people, though, probably me included would be inclined to take a security guard on the door more seriously than someone in the supermarket uniform.

I don't think it can be enforced really. Police certainly don't have time to do it. And it isn't being on public transport. You just have to hope for a certain level of public shame making people give in. 

[Cream Soda]

5 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

So this is what it says in the FAQs when asked if social distancing will be enforced: "Yes. The event site is large enough to enable socially responsible customers to maintain appropriate distances from each other during the event while having a good time. We will provide full details in due course. Any individual or group who persistently act outside of government guidance will be ejected from the event without refund."

So it sounds like they'll have stewards around trying to stop people standing too close to each other? Honestly don't know how you can manage that well once people are pissed. 

Me neither, it will be interesting to see how it goes.

[Cream Soda]

4 minutes ago, Paul ™ said:

Indeed but they can't enforce it, only the police can.

If someone comes up and tries to get in without a mask and gets arsey about it then turns round and say they have exemption from a mask, that can also cause issues.

I've seen people post on social media that no one at a shop etc has the right to ask about why they are not wearing one, and I can see their point too.. lots of hidden disabilities etc 

I totally agree and I don't agree with "shaming" people for this reason.  Yes, there will be a few people who take the piss, but if we've got 99% compliance I'd rather just leave the 1% to it than make those who genuinely can't wear them feel they don't want to go out in case they get shamed for having no mask on.

[Zoo Music Girl]

Just to add that when I said "public shame" I don't for a second mean people calling each other out and shaming people! I meant a psychological level of feeling ashamed if you don't and are able, because you know it's the right thing to do. Won't work for those who are hugely against it of course.

[Zoo Music Girl]

Kind of like when something becomes normalised enough that not doing it seems odd. Seatbelts are the obvious example I guess.

[Paul ™]

2 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I totally agree and I don't agree with "shaming" people for this reason.  Yes, there will be a few people who take the piss, but if we've got 99% compliance I'd rather just leave the 1% to it than make those who genuinely can't wear them feel they don't want to go out in case they get shamed for having no mask on.

Spot on.

Am currently working on the door for a high street bank and today we probably had 99% compliance 

Some of the 1% genuinely didn't know they had to wear them in banks, and tbh I don't blame them as even the bank didn't even know till yesterday that they came under the new legislation... They currently don't in Scotland. They were of course allowed in and advised to bring one next time, as the bank won't refuse entry to anyone.

There was approx 2-3 customers today out of the 311 that I clicked in today, that when politely asked if they had a face covering with them, just mentioned they were exempt and in they went. 

FYI the bank are not making staff exempt from wearing them, though most are. 

[Crazyfool01]

Get ready for some tough questions Boris  and calling the efests own Laura k ... @Ozanne

Edited July 24, 2020 by crazyfool1

[Cream Soda]

14 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Just to add that when I said "public shame" I don't for a second mean people calling each other out and shaming people! I meant a psychological level of feeling ashamed if you don't and are able, because you know it's the right thing to do. Won't work for those who are hugely against it of course.

Yeah I see what you mean.  I do worry that some people will have no qualms in calling people out though.  I hope it doesn't come to that.

[Crazyfool01]

just out of interest there is no official exception card / lanyard I presume ?