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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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2 hours ago, st dan said:

I’m not an anti-vaxer in any way shape or form and have recently just taken my son for his one year MMR jabs without the thought of not doing so not even crossing my mind for a second.
That being said I do think I would be slightly cautious about getting a vaccine for COVID-19 and being ‘young, fit and healthy’ I would probably prefer to take my chances of my body fighting this alone, without the risks of any potential side effects down the line, especially from a ‘rushed out’ vaccine. 
Although at the same time I don’t think I’d have any major issues with being ‘forced’ to have it if I had to. 

Same. Except probably ‘less young’. I’m pretty happy with the most at risks groups getting a rushed vaccine, if they wanted it, but I’d probably rather wait... 

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12 minutes ago, onthebeach said:

According to this it’s at ‘Approved stage’ for limited use??

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

Does anyone know what happened to this? It was a big thing about a month ago - has it been quietly dropped due to what appears to be disagreements between scientists/politicians? What level are we currently?

 

 

A556F475-3D4F-4550-9BA4-642E79CD4328.jpeg

2.5? 

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55 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

No worries!

The big question in the phase 3 trial is efficacy, which is why they need to run it somewhere where there is a lot of virus spreading at the moment. The trials to date have been looking at safety (what are the common side effects) and also does the vaccine induce an immune response. If so, at what dose and do you need repeated doses (looks like booster is better). They have answered these questions so far and it looks good...the actual real world data on whether it protects from infection, or if it doesn't then does it protect from severe disease, will become clearer at the next step (preliminary data suggested the second one at least, phase 2 data suggests the first might be possible). It's a massive logistical undertaking to run an large phase 3 vaccine trial, with 10s of thousands of participants spread across different countries, but the team from the Jenner and their partners are ploughing ahead full steam! In places where the virus is rampant, they may well start to see a signal in terms of efficacy in a few months, you basically need enough events to occur for it to be statistically significant (unless it's a home run and absolutely nobody in the vaccinated group gets infected and loads of people quickly get infected in the control group...I wouldn't really expect that, but you never know!). In follow up, they may also see an efficacy signal in their completed phase 2 data since they had a reasonable number of volunteers...most of them live in the UK though where prevalence of the virus has dropped significantly. 

Thanks TD, very useful as always.

So with phase three do they vaccinate thousands of people, let them go about normal life for a specified period and regularly monitor them to see if any get infected and if they do how serious it is.

Also, just hypothetical and I hope to goodness it doesn’t happen but in the larger trial say somebody dies from the side effects, does that just completely put the kibosh on the whole thing?

Last question I promise, you mentioned this type of vaccine has been around for a couple of years, so does that mean they don’t have to wait a certain amount of time to see if there are any longer term side effects?

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1 hour ago, Toilet Duck said:

No worries!

The big question in the phase 3 trial is efficacy, which is why they need to run it somewhere where there is a lot of virus spreading at the moment. The trials to date have been looking at safety (what are the common side effects) and also does the vaccine induce an immune response. If so, at what dose and do you need repeated doses (looks like booster is better). They have answered these questions so far and it looks good...the actual real world data on whether it protects from infection, or if it doesn't then does it protect from severe disease, will become clearer at the next step (preliminary data suggested the second one at least, phase 2 data suggests the first might be possible). It's a massive logistical undertaking to run an large phase 3 vaccine trial, with 10s of thousands of participants spread across different countries, but the team from the Jenner and their partners are ploughing ahead full steam! In places where the virus is rampant, they may well start to see a signal in terms of efficacy in a few months, you basically need enough events to occur for it to be statistically significant (unless it's a home run and absolutely nobody in the vaccinated group gets infected and loads of people quickly get infected in the control group...I wouldn't really expect that, but you never know!). In follow up, they may also see an efficacy signal in their completed phase 2 data since they had a reasonable number of volunteers...most of them live in the UK though where prevalence of the virus has dropped significantly. 

Didn't I read the other day that they've got the green light to do a small study whereby they directly expose some volunteers to the vaccine (to speed things up)?

Ah, here it is:

Quote

 

The team behind the Oxford Covid-19 vaccine hope to begin tests on volunteers who will be intentionally exposed to the virus in a “challenge trial”, a move seen as controversial since there is no proven cure for the illness.

Although challenge trials, in which healthy volunteers are given a pathogen, are routine in vaccine development, taking the approach for Covid-19, where there is no failsafe treatment if a volunteer becomes severely ill, has been questioned.

In human challenge trials volunteers are intentionally exposed in a controlled laboratory setting, meaning the trial can be completed in weeks and requires far fewer people.

 

 


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jul/16/coronavirus-vaccine-oxford-team-volunteers-lab-controlled-human-challenge-trial

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3 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

I wasn’t keen on needles ... a diabetes diagnosis saw to that ending ... it’s amazing what fear you can overcome when it is life saving .... 

Too true, anyway a small prick( no jokes please) is preferable to a life threatening virus or weeks unconscious in intensive care getting ventilated. 

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11 minutes ago, Ayrshire Chris said:

Too true, anyway a small prick( no jokes please) is preferable to a life threatening virus or weeks unconscious in intensive care getting ventilated. 

Indeed having said that I do become nervous when nurses say they can’t find a vein for my bloods ... not quite sure why :) and I fainted for my Bcg but that was many years prior to diabetes diagnosis ... no chance I’m not taking this jab 

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21 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Thanks TD, very useful as always.

So with phase three do they vaccinate thousands of people, let them go about normal life for a specified period and regularly monitor them to see if any get infected and if they do how serious it is.

Also, just hypothetical and I hope to goodness it doesn’t happen but in the larger trial say somebody dies from the side effects, does that just completely put the kibosh on the whole thing?

Last question I promise, you mentioned this type of vaccine has been around for a couple of years, so does that mean they don’t have to wait a certain amount of time to see if there are any longer term side effects?

Hi Nobby,

Yes, they vaccinate loads of people and then leave them off and see whether those who are vaccinated get infected less frequently. They will have looked at the prevalence of the virus in their test sites and powered their study accordingly (i.e., figured out how many people they need to vaccinate in order to get a statistically significant indication of how effective the vaccine is). 

In terms of somebody dying, in general, no, it wouldn't stop the trial or the approval (though they would have to try to figure out why and if it was directly as a result of the vaccine, did they have some underlying reason why this happened and if so, others with the same underlying condition would be excluded from getting it). If a bunch of people died then it's a different matter. If a strong signal emerged for a serious side effect, it would have to be factored into the approval...it may just form part of the informed consent for getting the vaccine. I remember the old Japanese encephalitis vaccine wasn't great, had serious side effects and they weren't massively rare, but it was approved and used until a better one came along (the new one is a lot safer). Personally, it's the one and only vaccine I haven't taken by choice. 

And yes, variants of this vaccine have been tested a good while ago, not this exact one (it obviously didn't have the SARS-CoV-2 spike inserted into it!). So, they have a good idea about the longer term side effects of the basic vaccine platform, the spike they have inserted just tells the body what type of antibodies to make...rather than reduce the amount of time they have to wait for approval, I reckon this data will form part of the submission to gain emergency use designation (the Chinese vaccines that are approved for emergency use in the military also used this argument since they had used the vaccine platform for other things before...it's not a million miles away from inserting a new immune generating signal into the flu vaccine every year, same basic vaccine, just containing the instructions for different antibodies).

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quick facemark update whilst browsing facemasks again :) .... im addicted ... found one for @squirrelarmy .....https://www.amazon.co.uk/Personalised-Leeds-United-Initials-Adult/dp/B08BL2NF9M/ref=sr_1_155_sspa?crid=27THDAUWLNXT4&dchild=1&keywords=face+masks&qid=1595256022&sprefix=fa%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-155-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVVZSSjI3MEhKSDhQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzU0MTU2NThMMTBRNU42REZMJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1NjY5MzhJVUlPU0lVRkVZVEgmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9idGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

Think we are probably at 50% today for customers ..... the overwhelming majority of  my colleagues seem to be holding out though which is unfortunate .... ive also seen some who will be refusing as its only a recommendation .... lets see what Friday brings ...

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3 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

11 deaths in UK.

Do I still have to keep wearing a mask?

Monday figures !!!   and yes !! we locked down to prevent the NHS getting overwhelmed ... now we do it to help the vulnerable and for the same cause over the run up to the winter ...

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6 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

6 cases! So...there's hardly any of it about?

Ah, it’s a Monday. There were 34 cases on Saturday, 11 yesterday. It’s still bubbling away, under control but could easily rebound if we take our eye off the ball. They’ve held off issuing a travel green list and still advise against travel for the foreseeable future (though they aren’t enforcing the 14 day quarantine on entry, but local businesses are not taking bookings from tourists unless they can prove when they entered the country)...

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3 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Ah, it’s a Monday. There were 34 cases on Saturday, 11 yesterday. It’s still bubbling away, under control but could easily rebound if we take our eye off the ball. They’ve held off issuing a travel green list and still advise against travel for the foreseeable future (though they aren’t enforcing the 14 day quarantine on entry, but local businesses are not taking bookings from tourists unless they can prove when they entered the country)...

yeah...with more people travelling during holiday season definitely could start seeing some spikes here and there.

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22 minutes ago, steviewevie said:

11 deaths in UK.

Do I still have to keep wearing a mask?

Dunno if this is sarcasm, but if it’s not, stop acting like an idiot.

You keep acting like you want this country to have a second wave.

In Germany they have on average less than 10 deaths a day but they all still wear masks there, to prevent future outbreaks. 

If this virus spirals out of control again in this country we will have thousands more deaths. And it only takes a handful of people not doing their best to contain the virus to lead to a regional or national spike.

As said before, it’s Monday figures too, tomorrow deaths will be 100+ to account for not counting on the weekend.

Edited by FestivalJamie
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22 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

quick facemark update whilst browsing facemasks again :) .... im addicted ... found one for @squirrelarmy .....https://www.amazon.co.uk/Personalised-Leeds-United-Initials-Adult/dp/B08BL2NF9M/ref=sr_1_155_sspa?crid=27THDAUWLNXT4&dchild=1&keywords=face+masks&qid=1595256022&sprefix=fa%2Caps%2C185&sr=8-155-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVVZSSjI3MEhKSDhQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzU0MTU2NThMMTBRNU42REZMJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1NjY5MzhJVUlPU0lVRkVZVEgmd2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9idGYmYWN0aW9uPWNsaWNrUmVkaXJlY3QmZG9Ob3RMb2dDbGljaz10cnVl

Think we are probably at 50% today for customers ..... the overwhelming majority of  my colleagues seem to be holding out though which is unfortunate .... ive also seen some who will be refusing as its only a recommendation .... lets see what Friday brings ...

Can’t believe it’s taking so long for customers to get their act together and start wearing them. 50% is better nonetheless than the figure before which was like 5-10% max.

Its stupid your colleagues are objecting, if it’s company policy they are compulsory, then they are going to have to deal with it. Also when they do their own shopping they are going to have to wear them, so might as well get used to them now.

Don't know why so many people are putting off wearing them until Friday... so stupid we had to wait 2 weeks until they were compulsory, should have started today.

 

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