When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

3 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Unfortunately lots of people don’t do the right thing though. But thank you for continually doing the right thing

My aunt is sure she picked up the virus on the bus going to work during lockdown (she works for NHS and had to go in). Public transport and supermarkets, which were the only public places where people were going to, would have benefited from compulsory masks. Would have cut transmission, even only slightly and would have saved a lot of lives. I mean perhaps my aunt wouldnt have got the virus had masks been compulsory on transport back at that point (busses recirculate the air which is why it is so important to wear masks).

How can she be sure she picked up the virus on a bus and not in work?

[FestivalJamie]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

How can she be sure she picked up the virus on a bus and not in work?

She works in mental health rather than a ward so she was the only one in the office when she went in. Obviously she could have picked the virus up elsewhere, not on the bus, it’s impossible to know, but that’s just what she’s assuming.

Edited July 15, 2020 by FestivalJamie

[balti-pie]

Nobody will have the faintest idea where they got the virus from. It’s completely impossible to know. Yer human brain will always try and pin it down to something to confirm their own (perhaps subconscious) biases, but there’s absolutely no way of knowing at all. She could’ve picked it up off a rogue bean tin that someone sneezed on in Tesco

[Superscally]

10 hours ago, zahidf said:

Is it better than Covid? If so , who cares?

You don't know yet.

[steviewevie]

2 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

She works in mental health rather than a ward so she was the only one in the office when she went in. Obviously she could have picked the virus up elsewhere, not on the bus, it’s impossible to know, but that’s just what she’s assuming.

right. fair enough.

[steviewevie]

6 minutes ago, balti-pie said:

Nobody will have the faintest idea where they got the virus from. It’s completely impossible to know. Yer human brain will always try and pin it down to something to confirm their own (perhaps subconscious) biases, but there’s absolutely no way of knowing at all. She could’ve picked it up off a rogue bean tin that someone sneezed on in Tesco

yeah...I just assumed that if worked for NHS would have been in a hospital which I would have thought carried a much higher risk of infection than using public transport. But... I assumed wrong.

Edited July 15, 2020 by steviewevie

[Lizzim]

2 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Unfortunately lots of people don’t do the right thing though. But thank you for continually doing the right thing

My aunt is sure she picked up the virus on the bus going to work during lockdown (she works for NHS and had to go in). Public transport and supermarkets, which were the only public places where people were going to, would have benefited from compulsory masks. Would have cut transmission, even only slightly and would have saved a lot of lives. I mean perhaps my aunt wouldnt have got the virus had masks been compulsory on transport back at that point (busses recirculate the air which is why it is so important to wear masks).

Sorry to hear about your aunt -  my sister in law has been working in intensive care units for the duration and we are constantly worried about her.    We have friends in the NHS who both picked up Covid early days but have since recovered.   Thing is we didnt need masks and  i felt guilty having them - our employer sent us all to work from home a week before any government called it.       But since all the cases i am close to were just before or around the lockdown was called I think we were probably a couple of weeks too late anyway.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

22 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

 

They should have been compulsory on public transport (for key workers using it) and in supermarkets during the peak of the first wave. Would have most definitely reduced the spread and would have saved hundreds if not thousands of lives.

Everyone should have been wearing them back in March, but unfortunately the government actively told us not to. But under the new guidance there are absolutely no excuses (apart from medical exemption) not to be wearing one now!

While it was a problem getting all NHS staff the appropriate PPE, advocating masks would’ve been huge mistake. The benefit would’ve been minimal with a huge risk you deny NHS workers access to them. When only key workers were using public transport they were empty and I very much doubt not using masks at that time caused the loss of thousands of lives. Assuming PPE was in decent supply, at the point Boris told people who couldn’t work from home to go back to work that would’ve been the sensible time to mandate them but not before.

[dotdash79]

45 minutes ago, shoptildrop said:

Christ the Grayling v Lewis thing just got better!! 

 

 

Snap

[shoptildrop]

5 minutes ago, dotdash79 said:

Snap

Apparently they could get rid of him....

 

 

[Ozanne]

I think it's pretty much a confirmed scientific fact that mask wearing will aid in suppressing the spread of a virus, even when in lockdown for the people going out and about wearing face coverings would definitely had helped lower the spread even more. I guess we have to maintain that Boris didn't get it wrong though.

[efcfanwirral]

8 minutes ago, shoptildrop said:

Apparently they could get rid of him....

 

 

We don't live in a democracy so I want them to do this to show more people 

[Ozanne]

9 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

We don't live in a democracy so I want them to do this to show more people 

Imagine the uproar. It's not like Boris' government have shown disregard for Parliament before now anyway.

[shoptildrop]

11 minutes ago, efcfanwirral said:

We don't live in a democracy so I want them to do this to show more people 

they are going to have to move very quick if they are doing this!! It would be insane scenes if they actually did it 

[Field of Avalon]

1 hour ago, dotdash79 said:

Not sure how local lockdowns would affect this too much

Am absolutely gutted about this. Had a ticket to see The Streets at Newmarket Racecourse. Was supposed to see him in Norwich at the end of May but obviously that got cancelled. I know in the light of all the things happening this may seem trivial but the chance to get to go to one gig even a socially distanced one was to me a light at the end of a very dark tunnel.

[Ozanne]

6 minutes ago, Field of Avalon said:

Am absolutely gutted about this. Had a ticket to see The Streets at Newmarket Racecourse. Was supposed to see him in Norwich at the end of May but obviously that got cancelled. I know in the light of all the things happening this may seem trivial but the chance to get to go to one gig even a socially distanced one was to me a light at the end of a very dark tunnel.

It's not trivial at all, its something you were clearly looking forward to. We have to have those especially in these times. Sorry it was cancelled mate.

[Field of Avalon]

3 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

It's not trivial at all, its something you were clearly looking forward to. We have to have those especially in these times. Sorry it was cancelled mate.

Thanks mate, it may well have been a total disaster but as you say it was something to look forward to. At this present time an out of tune busker singing Wonderwall would probably get me excited 😂

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

41 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

I think it's pretty much a confirmed scientific fact that mask wearing will aid in suppressing the spread of a virus, even when in lockdown for the people going out and about wearing face coverings would definitely had helped lower the spread even more. I guess we have to maintain that Boris didn't get it wrong though.

Not everything has to be politicised. Every time I make a comment about the lockdown and the mechanics of it you bring it back to the governments failings and specifically mention PPE. They bungled PPE and the right people didn’t have it at the right time, I’m pretty sure that’s something we can agree on? So why make that situation worse by mandating masks at a time NHS stocks are under pressure? It would be minimal gain for a potential greater loss. In terms of effectiveness Lockdown trumps everything by a significant margin, telling us to wear masks when we’re essentially confined to our homes at the expense of NHS staff is objectively by most people’s standards a bad idea. That’s not excusing the government in the slightest, that’s acknowledging a fundamental error they’ve made and rationalising the reason why they wouldn’t want to make that error even worse. If you read my last post properly you’ll see I said masks should have been mandated two months before back in May. I’m not agreeing with or defending anything beyond that point I’m actively disagreeing with it.

[Toilet Duck]

2 hours ago, zahidf said:

 

 

Ireland not opening pubs for another month 

So, some pubs are already open (if they serve food as well). A few of them completely took the piss when they opened up and 37 of them have been shut down again. Hopefully that was 1st weekend over-exuberance and things calm down a bit. Delaying opening the others is grabbing the headlines, but actually the key measure they introduced today was a new limit on social visits (10 people max, from 4 households). It’s entirely targeted at house parties as 75%+ of new cases are in the under 30 age group and contact tracing is proving difficult as large numbers have been gathering at parties. We’ve gone from about 10 cases a day a couple of weeks ago to about 20 a day for the last week (32 yesterday, 14 today...averages out about 20 a day over the week). R number hard to interpret with so few cases, only reassuring thing is that the % positive tests over the last week has been 0.3%. But there are clear patterns in how the clusters are occurring (house parties and travel), so that’s where the focus on containing it is. Keeping the pubs closed for another few weeks seems a reasonable call as otherwise the house parties would just move to the pub. 

[stuie]

1 hour ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

While it was a problem getting all NHS staff the appropriate PPE, advocating masks would’ve been huge mistake. The benefit would’ve been minimal with a huge risk you deny NHS workers access to them. When only key workers were using public transport they were empty and I very much doubt not using masks at that time caused the loss of thousands of lives. Assuming PPE was in decent supply, at the point Boris told people who couldn’t work from home to go back to work that would’ve been the sensible time to mandate them but not before.

Someone I know said this today but surely NHS PPE isn’t procured from eBay or amazon or even the same? 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

7 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

So, some pubs are already open (if they serve food as well). A few of them completely took the piss when they opened up and 37 of them have been shut down again. Hopefully that was 1st weekend over-exuberance and things calm down a bit. Delaying opening the others is grabbing the headlines, but actually the key measure they introduced today was a new limit on social visits (10 people max, from 4 households). It’s entirely targeted at house parties as 75%+ of new cases are in the under 30 age group and contact tracing is proving difficult as large numbers have been gathering at parties. We’ve gone from about 10 cases a day a couple of weeks ago to about 20 a day for the last week (32 yesterday, 14 today...averages out about 20 a day over the week). R number hard to interpret with so few cases, only reassuring thing is that the % positive tests over the last week has been 0.3%. But there are clear patterns in how the clusters are occurring (house parties and travel), so that’s where the focus on containing it is. Keeping the pubs closed for another few weeks seems a reasonable call as otherwise the house parties would just move to the pub. 

Reading between the lines I think what you’re saying is we need festivals back to give these under thirties something else to do 😉 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

Someone I know said this today but surely NHS PPE isn’t procured from eBay or amazon or even the same? 

No it isn’t, but this is where people need to think in shades of grey rather than absolutes. look at what happened with toilet rolls, hand sanitiser, soap, flour, pasta. Tell people to wear masks in the height of a pandemic and they’ll try and get hold of them as best they can. If you’re a manufacturer or wholesaler of N93 masks and you’ve got 66 million people trying to buy masks, do you keep your stock for the NHS or do you cash in and sell to the public at a huge margin? Why take the risk of interrupting a limited supply when the vast majority of the population are all at home for 23 hours a day? 

[Toilet Duck]

3 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Reading between the lines I think what you’re saying is we need festivals back to give these under thirties something else to do 😉 

😁 definitely! 

weirdly though, a one off event where you can implement a solid testing regime prior to entry and then keep everyone onsite is easier to make safe than a pub with people coming and going. Even if the event is massive (ie Glasto), you could make it safe. Might mean not trekking out and back to the car for more supplies, but I could live with only making one trip in. As for house parties, I entirely get why people are cheesed off sitting at home. At a different time in my life, I’d be tearing my hair out by this stage (as it happens, it suits me just fine now, I’d like to go on holidays, but hey ho, it’s not to be...it’ll come again). But for the moment, socialising in the lowest risk way is probably best (ie, outdoors). 

[Ozanne]

28 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Not everything has to be politicised. Every time I make a comment about the lockdown and the mechanics of it you bring it back to the governments failings and specifically mention PPE. They bungled PPE and the right people didn’t have it at the right time, I’m pretty sure that’s something we can agree on? So why make that situation worse by mandating masks at a time NHS stocks are under pressure? It would be minimal gain for a potential greater loss. In terms of effectiveness Lockdown trumps everything by a significant margin, telling us to wear masks when we’re essentially confined to our homes at the expense of NHS staff is objectively by most people’s standards a bad idea. That’s not excusing the government in the slightest, that’s acknowledging a fundamental error they’ve made and rationalising the reason why they wouldn’t want to make that error even worse. If you read my last post properly you’ll see I said masks should have been mandated two months before back in May. I’m not agreeing with or defending anything beyond that point I’m actively disagreeing with it.

You brought Boris up, if you don't want to politicise something then don't bring up the bloody Prime Minister.

They aren't mandating face masks that the health service use, they are telling people to buy general masks or coverings. If they did the same back in March with very clear instructions as to what people should go for then it could've worked. I highly doubt the NHS was searching out for 3 ply cotton face masks with the EU stars on the front now. (pointing out again the NHS wouldn't have been in that position desperately searching for facemarks if the government had kept stockpiles high, but we'll forget that).

Lockdown was the main factor, but just because it was the main one doesn't mean we couldn't supplement that with another that can add to the suppression of the virus. 

I clearly read your posts properly, they aren't exactly The Da Vinci Code now. Maybe you should read the Governments guidelines properly so you don't breach them anymore, I quoted your post at the weekend and provided them for you just in case. I hope that was helpful. I hope you abide by the new face masks rules too and don't enter a shop without one just to prove how shopkeepers aren't enforcing the rules.

I'm just pointing out certain areas that could've been done better that others round the world did before us and have been more effective with. You'll push that aside by saying 'hindsight' I'm sure which is doing a great disservice to the NHS workers and also to the families that have suffered losses as thats a way we can move on to the next stage of the fight in the winter by learning from the mistakes of the past.

[philipsteak]

1 hour ago, shoptildrop said:

they are going to have to move very quick if they are doing this!! It would be insane scenes if they actually did it 

And all just to get Chris Grayling appointed. Doesn't seem worth the effort