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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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33 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I've said some things in Scotland are more cautious, and somethings are less cautious. You've agreed with that, because that's a reflection of the facts.

And here you are arguing against yourself. :lol: 

What things do you believe are less cautious in Scotland? (genuine question)

As an aside, since being made mandatory on friday, the compliance with mask wearing up here had been remarkable. I thought we would still have a huge percentage ignoring the rule, however id say it's been around 95% in the two supermarkets I have been in - up from c5-10%. 

I would be interested to see if the reaction would be the same if Boris and his cronies implement it in the future.

Edited by Billy Corgan's Ego
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6 minutes ago, Billy Corgan's Ego said:

What things do you believe are less cautious in Scotland? (genuine question)

masks not required on planes (now changed), kids no longer needing to social distance. There's been others too that aren't coming to mind right now (again, perhaps now changed. Things change quite fast).

Against a claim (from LJS) of "a lot more cautious", these might reasonably be considered reckless rather than cautious.

And as I've also pointed out to LJS elsewhere, Sturgeon *only* has to consider the measures she wants, without regard to the costs of the economic effects. Spaffer has a different and bigger consideration.
(that's not a comment on how right either might be with their conclusions, it's just pointing out that they're considering different things to reach different conclusions).

Hey, I'd rather have Sturgeon than Spaffer in change for me because Sturgeon has been slightly better, but that's not a high bar to beat, and I inconveniently point out there's a lot of flag waving behind the high praise coming from some.

 

6 minutes ago, Billy Corgan's Ego said:

As an aside, since being made mandatory on friday, the compliance with mask wearing up here had been remarkable. I thought we would still have a huge percentage ignoring the rule, however id say it's been around 95% in the two supermarkets I have been in - up from c5-10%. 

I would be interested to see if the reaction would be the same if Boris and his cronies implement it in the future.

why do you think it would be much different? Is Scotland exceptional or something? :P 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/nine-out-of-ten-public-transport-users-wearing-face-masks-survey

 

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2 hours ago, Billy Corgan's Ego said:

What things do you believe are less cautious in Scotland? (genuine question)

As an aside, since being made mandatory on friday, the compliance with mask wearing up here had been remarkable. I thought we would still have a huge percentage ignoring the rule, however id say it's been around 95% in the two supermarkets I have been in - up from c5-10%. 

I would be interested to see if the reaction would be the same if Boris and his cronies implement it in the future.

I feel like it's easier to make people comply in shops than on public transport so I'd hope it would work here too. Was pretty depressed to see about a quarter of people not wearing masks (or wearing them pulled down) on the tube yesterday, but there is no one there to enforce it. If people are literally stopped from walking into a shop without a mask I think it will work better.

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1 hour ago, eFestivals said:

masks not required on planes (now changed), kids no longer needing to social distance. There's been others too that aren't coming to mind right now (again, perhaps now changed. Things change quite fast).

Against a claim (from LJS) of "a lot more cautious", these might reasonably be considered reckless rather than cautious.

And as I've also pointed out to LJS elsewhere, Sturgeon *only* has to consider the measures she wants, without regard to the costs of the economic effects. Spaffer has a different and bigger consideration.
(that's not a comment on how right either might be with their conclusions, it's just pointing out that they're considering different things to reach different conclusions).

Hey, I'd rather have Sturgeon than Spaffer in change for me because Sturgeon has been slightly better, but that's not a high bar to beat, and I inconveniently point out there's a lot of flag waving behind the high praise coming from some.

 

why do you think it would be much different? Is Scotland exceptional or something? :P 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/nine-out-of-ten-public-transport-users-wearing-face-masks-survey

 

Well that article gives a very different picture to what I saw yesterday! I guess it's easy to say yes in a survey though...

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On the plus side, this things gone on so long we're actually getting nearer to finding out about the vaccines. Think Oxford's is due September-December (will hopefully offer at least partial immunity- my friend who works in pharmaceutical research suggested they'd read up to 70%, though an article I read suggested 40%) and Imperial's will find out end of the year/early next year with possible full roll out in the first half of 2021. I like the Imperial one simply because the lead researcher is called Shattock, and the name/possibilities amuses me no end:

So hopefully we'll all have Shatt ourselves (been vaccinated with the Shattock vaccine) in time for Glastonbury 2021.

Best case scenario, Glastonbury wise, would be the Oxford vaccine is cleared in September and has a high resistance rate of 70%, making Glastonbury viable (so they can go ahead with planning etc), then the Imperial one is even more effective and gets rolled out in time for Summer.

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12 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

On the plus side, this things gone on so long we're actually getting nearer to finding out about the vaccines. Think Oxford's is due September-December (will hopefully offer at least partial immunity- my friend who works in pharmaceutical research suggested they'd read up to 70%, though an article I read suggested 40%) and Imperial's will find out end of the year/early next year with possible full roll out in the first half of 2021. I like the Imperial one simply because the lead researcher is called Shattock, and the name/possibilities amuses me no end:

So hopefully we'll all have Shatt ourselves (been vaccinated with the Shattock vaccine) in time for Glastonbury 2021.

Best case scenario, Glastonbury wise, would be the Oxford vaccine is cleared in September and has a high resistance rate of 70%, making Glastonbury viable (so they can go ahead with planning etc), then the Imperial one is even more effective and gets rolled out in time for Summer.

we'll all be dead by then.

In other news, Gove says masks are for w*nkers.

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14 hours ago, Sdsm123 said:

Makes sense, are they still putting COVID down for people who hAve died of COVID like disease but not formally tested

The ONS include these, but the government figures are only those with a positive test I believe (although it may not have necessarily been the cause of death.)

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28 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

On the plus side, this things gone on so long we're actually getting nearer to finding out about the vaccines. Think Oxford's is due September-December (will hopefully offer at least partial immunity- my friend who works in pharmaceutical research suggested they'd read up to 70%, though an article I read suggested 40%) and Imperial's will find out end of the year/early next year with possible full roll out in the first half of 2021. I like the Imperial one simply because the lead researcher is called Shattock, and the name/possibilities amuses me no end:

So hopefully we'll all have Shatt ourselves (been vaccinated with the Shattock vaccine) in time for Glastonbury 2021.

Best case scenario, Glastonbury wise, would be the Oxford vaccine is cleared in September and has a high resistance rate of 70%, making Glastonbury viable (so they can go ahead with planning etc), then the Imperial one is even more effective and gets rolled out in time for Summer.

That's a pretty tight timeline if we're assuming they would roll out to front line workers and the vulnerable first.  Although maybe that in itself would be enough for mass gatherings to go ahead?

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1 hour ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

I feel like it's easier to make people comply in shops than on public transport so I'd hope it would work here too. Was pretty depressed to see about a quarter of people not wearing masks (or wearing them pulled down) on the tube yesterday, but there is no one there to enforce it. If people are literally stopped from walking into a shop without a mask I think it will work better.

That’s honestly such a shame that only 25% of people were wearing them. Actually, it’s pretty pathetic. The tube is probably one of the prime environments for this virus to spread and exactly why people need to be wearing masks due to poor ventilation and recirculated air.

This is exactly why I think we will have a second wave in this country and not in some other european countries, you just can’t trust most Brits to do the right thing and there’s not enough people to enforce the rules. It’s almost like some people in this country want to be locked down again as “they don’t want to be controlled by the government” blah blah blah.

I actually agree that having masks mandatory in shops would be easier to enforce, you simply don’t let the customer in or serve them at the till or help them in the aisles if they aren’t wearing it properly. And if they were mandatory in shops it would get more of the British population wearing them in general, which would probably result in a higher compliance on public transport.

Michael gove is beyond a plonker.

Edited by FestivalJamie
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2 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Don’t worry we’ll be fine for next summer as our response is ‘beginning to wind down’ lads. Coronavirus has had enough of the U.K. what a super job we all did. 

Wow... when worldwide virus cases are soaring I didn’t realise they could be so oblivious to the fact it’s highly likely we are going to have a second wave.

If they aren’t prepared for the second wave, it’s going to be just as bad or worse than the first.

This country is run by idiots, doesn’t boris Johnson remember being in hospital?

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What’s going on then ? Boris saying they will become mandatory in shops ... gove saying it’s personal choice .... it’s very definately a clear government message yet again :(  ... blame shifting excercise ? Or has gove purchased a mask making company and is waiting for the sale to go through ? Or have they decided it’s a vote looser ? 

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4 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

That’s honestly such a shame that only 25% of people were wearing them. Actually, it’s pretty pathetic. The tube is probably one of the prime environments for this virus to spread and exactly why people need to be wearing masks due to poor ventilation and recirculated air.

This is exactly why I think we will have a second wave in this country and not in some other european countries, you just can’t trust most Brits to do the right thing and there’s not enough people to enforce the rules. It’s almost like some people in this country want to be locked down again as “they don’t want to be controlled by the government” blah blah blah.

I don't think its just Brits to be fair.  I have a friend living in Berlin and she told me quite a few people are not wearing them on public transport there either.  They have to wear them in shops and restaurants I believe, but its impossible to police it as much on transport.

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4 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Wow... when worldwide virus cases are soaring I didn’t realise they could be so oblivious to the fact it’s highly likely we are going to have a second wave.

If they aren’t prepared for the second wave, it’s going to be just as bad or worse than the first.

This country is run by idiots, doesn’t boris Johnson remember being in hospital?

I’m too cynical to be surprised by it anymore, if true this is appalling. This is far from over and they had better realise that before more damage gets done to people’s lives. 

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7 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I don't think its just Brits to be fair.  I have a friend living in Berlin and she told me quite a few people are not wearing them on public transport there either.  They have to wear them in shops and restaurants I believe, but its impossible to police it as much on transport.

Yes, well Belgium hasn’t exactly done the best in tackling this virus either. Their deaths per capita are sadly, even higher than ours. 

Edit; Sorry I read Belgium not Berlin. I’m sure there still aren’t some people complying in germany, but compliance in germany is definitely far higher than in england for sure, as in germany they have to wear them in any indoor public space. And it’s working too, their virus cases have stayed consistently down since unlocking in mid May... I think they had +200 or similar yesterday, with a larger population, and we had +800

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Just now, Ozanne said:

I’m too cynical to be surprised by it anymore, if true this is appalling. This is far from over and they had better realise that before more damage gets done to people’s lives. 

I completely agree, but I just don’t trust them anymore. If we all think the health and economic damage is bad now, their obliviousness means a second wave could happen, how bad is the health and economic damage going to be post second wave if it’s this bad post first wave?

I just think some people in this country need to wake up and realise this is far from over, we are in it from the long run and people need to start doing their bit if we don’t want thousands more to die in this country.

148 deaths yesterday too is hardly acceptable.... of course figures will be lower today “because it’s a Sunday”.

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2 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

I completely agree, but I just don’t trust them anymore. If we all think the health and economic damage is bad now, their obliviousness means a second wave could happen, how bad is the health and economic damage going to be post second wave if it’s this bad post first wave?

I just think some people in this country need to wake up and realise this is far from over, we are in it from the long run and people need to start doing their bit if we don’t want thousands more to die in this country.

148 deaths yesterday too is hardly acceptable.... of course figures will be lower today “because it’s a Sunday”.

You might appreciate this. 

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7 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

Yes, well Belgium hasn’t exactly done the best in tackling this virus either. Their deaths per capita are sadly, even higher than ours. 

Edit; Sorry I read Belgium not Berlin. I’m sure there still aren’t some people complying in germany, but compliance in germany is definitely far higher than in england for sure, as in germany they have to wear them in any indoor public space. And it’s working too, their virus cases have stayed consistently down since unlocking in mid May... I think they had +200 or similar yesterday, with a larger population, and we had +800

It would be interesting to know the difference in compliance when it isn't enforced.  I think you are always going to get a section of people who don't want to follow the orders, I don't think that's necessarily a British thing. 

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18 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

I actually agree that having masks mandatory in shops would be easier to enforce, you simply don’t let the customer in or serve them at the till or help them in the aisles if they aren’t wearing it properly.

For what it's worth up here in Scotland where masks are mandatory in shops staff have been told not to challenge anyone not wearing one, so although it has lead to a marked increase in mask wearing it isn't being strictly enforced.

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5 minutes ago, mcshed said:

For what it's worth up here in Scotland where masks are mandatory in shops staff have been told not to challenge anyone not wearing one, so although it has lead to a marked increase in mask wearing it isn't being strictly enforced.

I guess the wishy washy area will be around medical exemption ... exemption could potentially be asked for at the door of a shop but certainly not by every member of staff .... how is medical exception being proved in Scotland ? Or is it just done on honesty ? 

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39 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

That’s honestly such a shame that only 25% of people were wearing them. Actually, it’s pretty pathetic. The tube is probably one of the prime environments for this virus to spread and exactly why people need to be wearing masks due to poor ventilation and recirculated air.

This is exactly why I think we will have a second wave in this country and not in some other european countries, you just can’t trust most Brits to do the right thing and there’s not enough people to enforce the rules. It’s almost like some people in this country want to be locked down again as “they don’t want to be controlled by the government” blah blah blah.

I actually agree that having masks mandatory in shops would be easier to enforce, you simply don’t let the customer in or serve them at the till or help them in the aisles if they aren’t wearing it properly. And if they were mandatory in shops it would get more of the British population wearing them in general, which would probably result in a higher compliance on public transport.

Michael gove is beyond a plonker.

Just to clarify I said around 25% people weren't, not 25% people were. So around 75% to maybe even 80% compliance. Which is not bad. This is based on two half hour long journeys on the central line and stations. We also got two trains, which seemed better for compliance but much less busy, and two buses which I would say had about 95% compliance. So mixed bag.

You're right though. Gove is a plonker.

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1 minute ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

Just to clarify I said around 25% people weren't, not 25% people were. So around 75% to maybe even 80% compliance. Which is not bad. This is based on two half hour long journeys on the central line and stations. We also got two trains, which seemed better for compliance but much less busy, and two buses which I would say had about 95% compliance. So mixed bag.

You're right though. Gove is a plonker.

Sorry, I’m having a slow morning, thanks for clarifying and picking up on the fact that I’m reading yet another post wrong 😅

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No worries! Also when I said it's not bad, I meant not as bad. Its obviously still bad that so many entitled types think it doesn't apply to them. 

The enforcement thing is tricky. I think you could have security staff at shop doors enforcing it, but once in the shop I think it's quite a lot to ask staff to argue with customers about it, and potentially dangerous. See that French case with the bus driver for example. I saw people entering stations with no mask on yesterday and TFL staff didn't say anything, but they probably don't get paid enough for the potential aggro to be fair. I certainly wouldn't say anything to anyone on the tube as a fellow customer. 

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