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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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Just now, Cream Soda said:

Maybe, but it isn't an excuse. We all have a part to play in this,  we can't use someone else to justify our own actions. "He did it so I'm going to" is a very immature response. It's not all about politics either, some people don't follow any of this stuff  don't vote etc and will still be breaking the rules.

Its more the govt saying its fine to use your own judgement in lockdown rules. 

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27 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

This is crazy. Just seen on Twitter that sports events returning and the vulnerable leaving their homes is supposed to be at alert level 1. We are at level 4.

Seem to be diverging from the scientific advice more and more...other factors being taken into account, economic, social, mental health etc etc. Could all go horribly wrong, time will tell.

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1 minute ago, Cream Soda said:

Maybe, but it isn't an excuse. We all have a part to play in this,  we can't use someone else to justify our own actions. "He did it so I'm going to" is a very immature response. It's not all about politics either, some people don't follow any of this stuff  don't vote etc and will still be breaking the rules.

Yes I know, as I’ve said it’s both but you didn’t quote that bit. 

 

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

That was my point the other day. 
 

 

Shocker, people are selfish. Maybe if their Chief Advisor hasn’t breach lockdown people wouldn’t feel the need to breach it themselves. Equally they could police this better too. It’s clearly a mix of people being jerks and the government giving such unclear messaging it promotes this type of behaviour. If we had a better government half the issues we are facing wouldn’t be an issue. 

I’ve quoted that bit for you and I’ll say it again it’s clearly a mix of both but what has happened doesn’t help. If more and more people do it for that reason then it gives off the impression that it’s allowed for people to be more relaxed. 

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15 minutes ago, zahidf said:

MP Adam Holloway

 

 

20200531_111916.jpg

If that's genuine, it's a fucking disgrace.

 

I'm expecting tonight's press conference to tell us that we're now at alert level 3, conveniently just in time to loosen restrictions tomorrow.

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33 minutes ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

This is crazy. Just seen on Twitter that sports events returning and the vulnerable leaving their homes is supposed to be at alert level 1. We are at level 4.

I missed this, very good point!

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Yes I know, as I’ve said it’s both but you didn’t quote that bit. 

 

I’ve quoted that bit for you and I’ll say it again it’s clearly a mix of both but what has happened doesn’t help. If more and more people do it for that reason then it gives off the impression that it’s allowed for people to be more relaxed. 

There are also those who don't care about Cummings and fully understand the rules but do what they want anyway.  Those people would exist with any government.  

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Re the football situ, I believe the fact that they have money to back it up helps. I saw a convo of this gist the other day:

'How come no-contact cricket isn't back until July but football is back in June?

Because football has the money to pay for all the testing that is required.'

Edited by Homer
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2 minutes ago, Homer said:

Re the football situ, I believe the fact that they have money to back it up helps. I saw a convo of this gist the other day:

'How come no-contact cricket isn't back until July but football is back in June?

Because football has the money to pay for all the testing that is required.'

for the bigger clubs this is all fine...the smaller clubs are screwed.

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4 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

There are also those who don't care about Cummings and fully understand the rules but do what they want anyway.  Those people would exist with any government.  

Are you selectively reading my posts or maybe I’m not explaining effectively?

9 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Yes I know, as I’ve said it’s both but you didn’t quote that bit. 

 

I’ve quoted that bit for you and I’ll say it again it’s clearly a mix of both but what has happened doesn’t help. If more and more people do it for that reason then it gives off the impression that it’s allowed for people to be more relaxed. 

As a result of the Cummings affair more and more people will be going out, thus if the ones that don’t follow this type of thing see that then they will think it’s fine to go out more too. It’s added to a more relaxed mentality on the whole which will be a reason we are seeing more people out. 

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13 minutes ago, basicminds said:

About that Brighton photo, I know its been said it is personal responsibility in those decisions, but the govt has a part to play as well.  In Boris's speech he said we can now go out to sunbathe and there are now no restrictions to travel so whilst I think those people are selfish I think the government have a lot to answer for.  Word on the street is that the R in Brighton is 1.7 so as a resident I am pretty fucked off.  

In terms of shielding there's no way I would change what I was doing (if I had to shield) based on the change in guidance yesterday, the government has not explained its working out and our death rate does not suggest they have this under control.  When this passes I will be with my placard outside of Westminster, at this rate its gonna be bloody massive with all their mistakes on it.  

And if the plan is for herd immunity and concerns of the economy they should just have some bollocks and say it.  

There is some conflicting info for Brighton from what I can see, these two articles report the same thing in different ways but essentially say the same thing, that Brighton has just had no new deaths or new cases for the first time since it started:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.spiritfm.net/news/sussex-news/3100373/no-coronavirus-deaths-recorded-in-west-sussex/amp/

https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2020/05/30/government-publishes-official-coronavirus-death-toll-for-brighton-and-hove/

Whereas this one mentions the R ‘might’ be above 1 based on comparing last weeks cases from the week before, seeing a rise of 8 to 18 from one week to the next:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theargus.co.uk/news/18482234.amp/
 

But case numbers are so low and in fact amongst the lowest in the country, that comparing such low figures is going to create a lot of noise around the R number, and It appears the rise has since been superseded with zero new cases.

In short it’s much to early to tell, the R number will jump around a lot in a place with very few cases, and it appears the R being above one is based on old info.

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1 minute ago, Ozanne said:

Are you selectively reading my posts or maybe I’m not explaining effectively?

No, but maybe I have misunderstood, I don't know.  When you say "a bit of both" I have read that to mean a bit of those who think "Sod, it" because of Cummings and a bit of those who think they are doing nothing wrong because they don't understand the guidelines.

I was pointing out that there is a third group of people who fall into neither of these categories.  Sorry if I misunderstood, things get lost in translation online sometimes, it doesn't always mean the other person is deliberately trying to be an arsehole.

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2 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

No, but maybe I have misunderstood, I don't know.  When you say "a bit of both" I have read that to mean a bit of those who think "Sod, it" because of Cummings and a bit of those who think they are doing nothing wrong because they don't understand the guidelines.

I was pointing out that there is a third group of people who fall into neither of these categories.  Sorry if I misunderstood, things get lost in translation online sometimes, it doesn't always mean the other person is deliberately trying to be an arsehole.

I’m trying to that Cummings will have added to a more relaxed attitude through the country that all type different types of people will pick up on then act differently as a result. 

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There are always people in life who don’t care and just want an excuse to vindicate their actions. I don’t agree with it but we all know a lot of people like that exist.

Its not really any different to the Cummings sympathisers pointing out the Labour MPs who broke rules, that’s just excusing one wrong doing because of another. 

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2 hours ago, Cream Soda said:

I do think people have to take some responsibility for their own actions. I've seen photos of hundreds of people piling off a train in Brighton, some of whom are just going to sunbathe. Assuming the photo was real, how can those people not take some responsibility for what they are doing? The rules are clear about using public transport only where essential. Sunbathing is not essential. No one can claim this isn't clear, it is perfectly clear. I can only assume these people are adults who have weighed up the risks and feel they want to chance it,  even though they know they are going against government advice. If there is a second peak as a result no one can claim they didn't know they were risking it. This might conveniently fit into the government's herd immunity plan, but no one is forcing these people to pile on a train to go sunbathing. 

I think what also shows how clueless the government are is this enforced quarantine from 8th june. Netherlands has been open this whole time without a quarantine and things like zoos, shops, hotels, resturants, theme parks there are all reopen again. I know people who have jetted off for last minute trips across the border for a short holiday and are coming back just before the quarantine starts. 

This surely isn’t going to help the R rate and if they really wanted to implement a quarantine they should have just done it with immediate effect rather than delaying it until 8 June.

The quarantine also doesn’t stop me thinking about holidays, most EU countries are opening back up between 15 June- 1st july and I’m prepared to take the hit and take the 2 weeks quarantine or wait until end of June when it will most likely be scrapped. I’m sure many others will have similar idea about holidays, especially when looking at yesterday’s deaths, every european country is far safer than ours. 

 

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4 hours ago, Neil said:

yeah - risks aren't too big while everyone is outside. Shit's going to come when the weather turns bad.

My concern is that we'll be on a victory parade having "beaten" the virus by then, so pubs will be open with little social distancing, just in time for then.

 

2 hours ago, Zoo Music Girl said:

No one is stopping them, though, either. I don't think you'd have been able to get a train at peak of lockdown in Spain, for example, without proving you are going to work or have a medical need. I don't want to live in a police state but nothing has been enforced in this country: transport restrictions, masks, big groups in public spaces. It's all just left up to the individual and sadly it turns out the individual is bloody selfish.

I've understood there to be no change to the guidance on public transport (avoid if possible) which is one of the big reasons we are not seeing our family or debating hiring a car if we do. But as you say it's not just about the guidance, it's about whether I think it's a risk and I think getting in a tube and train to see my over-70s mum definitely is.

I think this is one of the things that I've found most infuriating about the past few days. So many people are just excited to see the government easing things and happy to do what they can get away with that they are not actually thinking about whether it is safe or sensible to do so.

This sums up the English public perfectly. It's all about what they can get away with, not what's right or needed. 

2 hours ago, reflekting said:

I think the only thing the Tories are trying to avoid is pictures of patients on hospital floors as that is a political weapon that can be used against them. If the NHS has capacity then they will fill it back up solely to restart the economy. 

Nail on the head there I think- it's always worried me this "avoid a second wave that overwhelms the NHS"...that actually didnt happen when we were reporting 1000 deaths a day, so even providing some room for maneuver we could be running at something like 700 deaths reported a day and still meet that test.

I suspect our view of what should lead to restrictions being tightened again and the government's number are very very far apart...

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Im not sure I agree with what I’m about to say but was thinking about it so thought I’d share. Is there a chance that even if the government allows everything to go back to normal, including big events like glasto, that these big events still might say they’re not going ahead, given in order to run they need medical resource, which by definition would be taking said medical resource away from the NHS Covid response? Every festival statement has said that the safety of attendees and crew is their primary concern and if we get to a scenario where scientists, not government, are still saying they shouldn’t go ahead, is there a chance they side with the scientists? I’m not expecting the premier league etc to give a shit about this as all they care about is the money, however I was thinking that maybe more ethical events such as glasto, shambala etc could take this approach. 
 

As I said not sure what I think about this but was just a thought!

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7 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Im not sure I agree with what I’m about to say but was thinking about it so thought I’d share. Is there a chance that even if the government allows everything to go back to normal, including big events like glasto, that these big events still might say they’re not going ahead, given in order to run they need medical resource, which by definition would be taking said medical resource away from the NHS Covid response? Every festival statement has said that the safety of attendees and crew is their primary concern and if we get to a scenario where scientists, not government, are still saying they shouldn’t go ahead, is there a chance they side with the scientists? I’m not expecting the premier league etc to give a shit about this as all they care about is the money, however I was thinking that maybe more ethical events such as glasto, shambala etc could take this approach. 
 

As I said not sure what I think about this but was just a thought!

To be fair to the Premier League, they do have the resources to restart safely.

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4 minutes ago, tigger123 said:

Im not sure I agree with what I’m about to say but was thinking about it so thought I’d share. Is there a chance that even if the government allows everything to go back to normal, including big events like glasto, that these big events still might say they’re not going ahead, given in order to run they need medical resource, which by definition would be taking said medical resource away from the NHS Covid response? Every festival statement has said that the safety of attendees and crew is their primary concern and if we get to a scenario where scientists, not government, are still saying they shouldn’t go ahead, is there a chance they side with the scientists? I’m not expecting the premier league etc to give a shit about this as all they care about is the money, however I was thinking that maybe more ethical events such as glasto, shambala etc could take this approach. 
 

As I said not sure what I think about this but was just a thought!

I think that’s just quite binary really, there is either capacity within the emergency services or there isn’t, so it all depends where we are in a year’s time. If there is capacity within the NHS then I don’t see what’s unethical about going ahead.

With regards to the football, they are testing about 1000 people twice a week, but it’s been confirmed this has no impact on the NHS. Games will be behind closed doors, so you’d assume policing will be low, or not much more than might be needed to patrol a park during lockdown. Not sure of the need for paramedics with no crowd and only players, I’d assume they’d still need one on standby but the government wouldn’t have given the go ahead if there was no capacity, so again I don’t see it being unethical.

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45 minutes ago, FestivalJamie said:

I think what also shows how clueless the government are is this enforced quarantine from 8th june. Netherlands has been open this whole time without a quarantine and things like zoos, shops, hotels, resturants, theme parks there are all reopen again. I know people who have jetted off for last minute trips across the border for a short holiday and are coming back just before the quarantine starts. 

This surely isn’t going to help the R rate and if they really wanted to implement a quarantine they should have just done it with immediate effect rather than delaying it until 8 June.

The quarantine also doesn’t stop me thinking about holidays, most EU countries are opening back up between 15 June- 1st july and I’m prepared to take the hit and take the 2 weeks quarantine or wait until end of June when it will most likely be scrapped. I’m sure many others will have similar idea about holidays, especially when looking at yesterday’s deaths, every european country is far safer than ours. 

 

Greece has already said they won't accept travellers from the UK. Wouldn't be surprised (or blame them) if other EU countries followed suit.

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1 hour ago, Ozanne said:

I’m trying to that Cummings will have added to a more relaxed attitude through the country that all type different types of people will pick up on then act differently as a result. 

I see and yes it will probably happen, it's still passing the responsibility to someone else though isn't it whether its Cummings or your next door neighbour.  It's still the attitude of "someone else is doing so I'll copy them and do the same even though I know it's against the guidelines".  It shouldn't matter what they or anyone else is doing, if you know the rules you should keep to them until advised otherwise.  I know that won't be the reality, but it should be.

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