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When will this shit end?


Chrisp1986

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9 hours ago, Ozanne said:

The Spectator is now saying Boris is unfit to lead. You know that left leaning, remainer newspaper...

Keep seeing comments on Twitter about two Labour MPs breaking the rules...heard nothing about it.  Who are they and why were they not sacked?

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Ryan1984 said:

Surely Vallance and Whitty must be tempted to break ranks? They were preaching so much caution yesterday.

If they think easing the lockdown is genuinely dangerous then they should say so imo.  I know they don't get involved in politics but it can't be right for them to stand by and watch unnecessary deaths (if that's what they feel the situation will cause).

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13 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Keep seeing comments on Twitter about two Labour MPs breaking the rules...heard nothing about it.  Who are they and why were they not sacked?

 

 

Only one I know about is Kinnock. He posted a photo of him sitting outside his dad’s house on his dad’s birthday. Said he took some essential supplies round and had a social distanced birthday celebration. Never went in the house.

He was warned by the police on social media and publicly apologised 

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8 minutes ago, Dave85radiohead said:

Only one I know about is Kinnock. He posted a photo of him sitting outside his dad’s house on his dad’s birthday. Said he took some essential supplies round and had a social distanced birthday celebration. Never went in the house.

He was warned by the police on social media and publicly apologised 

Looks like it wasn't a local trip, Wales to London.  Clearly not essential travel.  Is an apology good enough and would we all have accepted that and moved on if Cummings had said sorry?

I can't find anything about who the other one is.

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4 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Looks like it wasn't a local trip, Wales to London.  Clearly not essential travel.  Is an apology good enough and would we all have accepted that and moved on if Cummings had said sorry?

I can't find anything about who the other one is.

Obviously Cummings would always be a bigger story given his position, but had he just apologised immediately like Kinnock then this would almost certainly have blown over after a day or so.

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2 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Looks like it wasn't a local trip, Wales to London.  Clearly not essential travel.  Is an apology good enough and would we all have accepted that and moved on if Cummings had said sorry?

I can't find anything about who the other one is.

It’s very different for me. Cummings helped to set the rules and is currently in government. He also deliberately tried to cover it up and refused to acknowledge what he did.

The fact that Kinnock so publicly showed what he had done suggests that he really didn’t think he had done anything wrong but still apologised. Something Cummings has failed to do.

I think if Cummings had apologised then the majority of Conservative supporters would have shown him a lot more empathy.

Its now become much more than Cummings. It’s about a government taking the public more morons and doing anything to protect itself no matter how morally wrong.

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10 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Looks like it wasn't a local trip, Wales to London.  Clearly not essential travel.  Is an apology good enough and would we all have accepted that and moved on if Cummings had said sorry?

I can't find anything about who the other one is.

The other one is a Welsh Health Minister, he was out for a walk with his family and stopped to have lunch at a public table. Which I think was allowed, as you could sit for a rest whilst out.

 

The Kinnock one was stupid of him, he breached lockdown rules. Although he didn’t travel with a person showing COVID symptoms.

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4 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

The other one is a Welsh Health Minister, he was out for a walk with his family and stopped to have lunch at a public table. Which I think was allowed, as you could sit for a rest whilst out.

 

The Kinnock one was stupid of him, he breached lockdown rules. Although he didn’t travel with a person showing COVID symptoms.

It's been a shambles to be honest and I think the police in different areas have enforced different rules, I think there were a few stories of people being moved on by police for sitting on park benches etc.  I personally don't have an issue with the park bench though if no one else was around.  Driving from Wales to London is another matter though, a clear breach of the rules.

EDIT, also Cummings wife didn't have Covid symptoms, she was ill apparently but the symptoms were not Covid.  So why Cummings jumped to the conclusion they all could have Covid God only knows.  Makes me think the whole thing was bollocks and they just went up there for a break. (or I suppose she could have had Covid symptoms and he's lying about that)

Edited by Cream Soda
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3 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

It's been a shambles to be honest and I think the police in different areas have enforced different rules, I think there were a few stories of people being moved on by police for sitting on park benches etc.  I personally don't have an issue with the park bench though if no one else was around.  Driving from Wales to London is another matter though, a clear breach of the rules.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/welsh-health-minister-blasts-sun-18238540.amp
 

Here’s the full story in case I missed anything. 

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Just now, Dave85radiohead said:

Robert Jenrick also broke lockdown just in case you are trying to paint a narrative of this just been because Cummings is linked to the Conservative party.

That might not be what you were trying to do just wondered why you focused on the two labour politicians.

 

I was just wondering what the situations were with the labour party MPs as I'd heard nothing about them.  I'd heard nothing about Jenrick either.  

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2 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I was just wondering what the situations were with the labour party MPs as I'd heard nothing about them.  I'd heard nothing about Jenrick either.  

He drove over 100 miles to his parents home via his second home in order to drop of key supplies. Conservatives accept that this was in rules despite the distance and nothing more was made of it. That’s just one of the reasons why it find it very hard to accept their criticism of Kinnock

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2 minutes ago, Dave85radiohead said:

He drove over 100 miles to his parents home via his second home in order to drop of key supplies. Conservatives accept that this was in rules despite the distance and nothing more was made of it. That’s just one of the reasons why it find it very hard to accept their criticism of Kinnock

To me those situations are very similar and both breaching the rules.  No distance was ever put in place but everyone knows what "local" means and 100 miles isn't it, nor is Wales to London.  

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44 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

Looks like it wasn't a local trip, Wales to London.  Clearly not essential travel.  Is an apology good enough and would we all have accepted that and moved on if Cummings had said sorry?

I can't find anything about who the other one is.

Kinnock Jnr is an MP and they are entitled to travel from their constituency to London (permanent place of work). The same as the Welsh tory MP who was In London when a party was held for his wife’s birthday in Wales.

Not saying going to his father’s home was right, but he did have a right to be in London.

Edited by Cherry Tree
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Just now, Cherry Tree said:

Kinnock Jnr is an MP and they are entitled to travel from their constituency to London (permanent place of work). The same as the Welsh tory MP who was not at home when a party was held for his wife’s birthday.

Not saying going to his father’s home was right, but he did have a right to be in London.

So was he already there for work purposes and just happened to visit his dad while he was there?  If so that is very different to making a special trip.

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1 minute ago, Cream Soda said:

To me those situations are very similar and both breaching the rules.  No distance was ever put in place but everyone knows what "local" means and 100 miles isn't it, nor is Wales to London.  

They are very similar and we’re both wrong. That was the point I was  ( perhaps badly) trying to make. When I said criticism sorry I meant in comparison to what Cummings did.  What he did was far more reckless and the governments attempt to sweep it away has been a national embarrassment. 
People on social media saying that Cummings should stay because Kinnock stayed are just plain wrong:
 

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1 hour ago, Cream Soda said:

Keep seeing comments on Twitter about two Labour MPs breaking the rules...heard nothing about it.  Who are they and why were they not sacked?

one was Stephen Kinnock, who apparently tweeted a pic of him in his dad's back garden in London.

But sacked for what? MPs don't get sacked. And people like Kinnock aren't responsible for setting a policy which they haven't followed themselves.

It's awkward tho for Labour, and might have something to do with Starmer's restraint.

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1 minute ago, Neil said:

people like Kinnock aren't responsible for setting a policy which they haven't followed themselves.

I don't think it matters who set the policy, we all knew what the policy was and as an MP he should have set an example for everyone else.  If he was already in London for work as the post above implies then that would be different for me and far more acceptable.

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7 minutes ago, Neil said:

one was Stephen Kinnock, who apparently tweeted a pic of him in his dad's back garden in London.

But sacked for what? MPs don't get sacked. And people like Kinnock aren't responsible for setting a policy which they haven't followed themselves.

It's awkward tho for Labour, and might have something to do with Starmer's restraint.

He broke lockdown rather than quarantine, and was countered with what jedrick did at the same time. Kinnock apologised as well and his was understandable, whereas cummings forced the govt to change their regulations so he wouldn't have to apologise...

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4 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I don't think it matters who set the policy, we all knew what the policy was and as an MP he should have set an example for everyone else.  If he was already in London for work as the post above implies then that would be different for me and far more acceptable.

Believing their stories at face value.

One drove over 100 miles to his dad to give him essential supplies and then wished him happy birthday from outside the house.

The other drove over 100 miles  with a small child and someone they believed had coronavirus and then after that drove a car with a small child in the back to check that he was in a fit state to drive and wouldn’t crash.

These stories aren’t even in the same orbit. Why are you trying to link them?

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8 minutes ago, Cream Soda said:

I don't think it matters who set the policy, we all knew what the policy was and as an MP he should have set an example for everyone else.  If he was already in London for work as the post above implies then that would be different for me and far more acceptable.

oh, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with "as an MP he should have set an example for everyone else". He's certainly been criticised for it.

But MPs don't get sacked, it's ministers, etc, who do.

And he's still in a different position to Cummings, who has set the policy and then taken the piss in about the biggest way possible (because he thought he was infected when doing his travelling).

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1 minute ago, Dave85radiohead said:

Believing their stories at face value.

One drove over 100 miles to his dad to give him essential supplies and then wished him happy birthday from outside the house.

The other drove over 100 miles  with a small child and someone they believed had coronavirus and then after that drove a car with a small child in the back to check that he was in a fit state to drive and wouldn’t crash.

These stories aren’t even in the same orbit. Why are you trying to link them?

I think I'm being misunderstood here.  I in no way approve of Cummings or what he did.  I'm not comparing the two scenarios and deciding which is worse.  I'm just saying both were clear breaches of the rules.  Yes, one was clearly worse than the other, but both were things that the majority of the population did not do because it was clear we were not supposed to.  If we were all driving 100 miles to visit family the lockdown would have been pointless.

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