When will this shit end?

[WhoamI?]

1 hour ago, crazyfool1 said:

135,000 paying punters x2m 270,000m divided by 4 gates ..... each gate queue 67,500m ....  ish 

So, if it did not split into gates until close to the fence, the queue would start in Liverpool?  

[Crazyfool01]

4 minutes ago, WhoamI? said:

So, if it did not split into gates until close to the fence, the queue would start in Liverpool?  

I’m just waiting for someone to question my maths / workings out  

[zahidf]

Please refer to quarantine protestors as the “Flu Klux Klan” from now on

[Gilgamesh69]

33 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I’m just waiting for someone to question my maths / workings out  

It makes sense - assuming everybody arrives on the same day - but you forgot to take into account the size of the people as well! 😄

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

5 hours ago, Toilet Duck said:

That’s awful to hear mate, and really highlights at a personal level the effect this is having on people. In throwing out stats and numbers, and discussing this in the abstract, it’s easy to forget that for people like your wife’s mate, they just lost someone they shouldn’t have because of this. 
 

if it’s any solace, I don’t think there’s a grand conspiracy to cover up deaths (they don’t even report those outside hospitals at the moment). These things get revised all the time and reporting criteria change. The hospitals are in crisis mode, reviews and audits later will have the time to be more precise. 
 

how your government are performing is another matter, and not one I’m entirely qualified to judge. 
 

take care!

Hello Toilet Duck,

Two things;

(1) If the Government can't accurately count in relatively really low figures eg 20,000, then how are we to expect them to successfully deal with our economy, that is measured in trillions? I just don't get it. It would really seem to me to be a lesson learnt that if they are prepared to be 'economical / inept'  with the truth on this, just what the fuck did they have in store for us?  Surely anybody 'reasonable' would say to the other members of the public ' Oh, hold on, I haven't got a fucking clue on this one', 'I really don't know how to deal with this, so am going to pass it over to someone else in my party, or even the opposition. You don't just plod on like a thick c**t when human lives are at stake, surely.

(2) My wife once had a 'bunch' of alcoholics to her house (actually it was a type of occurrence that went on then for a couple of decades, and still went on here until the Lock Down). On finding out that there was no more drink in the house the next morning, one of these fine fellows said something along the lines of ' well fuck it, it'll have to be the Toilet Duck' - and then proceeded to drink the very same thing which he obtained from her toilet. 

You wouldn't find me doing that. I'm more of a Mr' Matey bloke (see below) - probably because

 

I, at all times, retain a level of sophistication,. 

 

 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

4 hours ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Clearly a lot of deaths are getting recorded as being down to Covid-19, broadly speaking around 1400-1600 people die in the U.K. every day, so at one point at our peak two thirds of deaths were being recorded as being due to it, however overall deaths did not go up by the same amount so clearly there was a lot of overlap. The vast majority of cases are reported as being people with underlying health conditions, but clearly these underlying health conditions are not being given as cause of death, otherwise we would be seeing very small numbers of people reported as dying from Covid-19, not nearly 1000 per day at one point (bit with overall death figures only going up by relatively small margins) ONS figures for March showed deaths from heart attacks and strokes were down fairly significantly. They haven’t disappeared or stopped happening, but the explanation is Covid-19 is being given as the cause of death. What I’m saying is I don’t think there is some grand conspiracy or cover up, there is clearly a lot of overlap with regards to cause of death and probably just as many occasions when the cause of deaths is given as Covid for somebody with a more serious underlying condition and visa versa.

I'm saying that the Government haven't got the ability to count and accurately report on the number of deaths this country has experienced through infections from Covid - 19. Given that that is only in the tens of thousands, then this is preposterous. Do you really think that there should be an acceptable incidence to prove your thought that maybe some non Covid - 19 deaths are treated as Covid - 19 deaths, even though they are not. It would be further affirmation that they are totally inept, surely?

[Smeble]

6 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

 

I'm afraid that I haven't read this thread lately, so please forgive if this is repetition.

My wife's mates husband's brother had Covid -19 but was advised to stay at home. He then had a heart attack believed to have been brought on my the affects of the breathing difficulties that he was experiencing at home. His death has now been certified as that of a heart attack only. His mother has since established that in one night alone at the Birmingham QE Hospital that there were 53 cases of Covid - 19 patients having heart attacks. Not all of those died, but those that did, were certified as having died from a heart attack, and not Covid - 19.

On top of the above, there's this new bit of information that I have recently been made aware of (but haven't yet verified);

Sage {Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies} evidence used to guide ministers through the coronavirus crisis will remain a SECRET until the pandemic is over, says government’s chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance.

 

It would appear to me that they are lying about the number of Covid - 19 deaths (they can't even count up properly the deaths that they do admit to having happened!), and were less than wise / efficient / responsible etc from the start of all this.

And we trust this Government not only with our lives, but that of the country's financial wealth. They can't even count FFS, let alone deal in £ trillions. 

When filling out a death certificate you don’t just put a cause of death as x, you have to put x which was caused by y with underlying condition z. Presumably if covid 19 appears anywhere on the death certificate then it reported as a covid death for the statistics. In fact the guidelines actually say this.

if the government is putting pressure on doctors to not put covid 19 on the death certificate then I’m very surprised someone hasn’t blown the whistle on it, other than you on an obscure festival forum. NHS workers have been very quick, rightfully so, to complain about the lack of PPE yet doctors haven’t said anything about pressure being applied to lie on death certificates?

as for the counting of the deaths, it’s going to be pretty chaotic, the reporting by the hospitals will be sporadic which is why numbers get changed after the fact, some hospitals will be quicker than others at sending their stats through to be counted, weekends delay reporting etc. 
 

 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

1 hour ago, Smeble said:

When filling out a death certificate you don’t just put a cause of death as x, you have to put x which was caused by y with underlying condition z. Presumably if covid 19 appears anywhere on the death certificate then it reported as a covid death for the statistics. In fact the guidelines actually say this.

if the government is putting pressure on doctors to not put covid 19 on the death certificate then I’m very surprised someone hasn’t blown the whistle on it, other than you on an obscure festival forum. NHS workers have been very quick, rightfully so, to complain about the lack of PPE yet doctors haven’t said anything about pressure being applied to lie on death certificates?

as for the counting of the deaths, it’s going to be pretty chaotic, the reporting by the hospitals will be sporadic which is why numbers get changed after the fact, some hospitals will be quicker than others at sending their stats through to be counted, weekends delay reporting etc
 

 

So you think all doctors think like you do you?  Do you think all doctors are on the level? Would this include doctors like Harold Shipman? Did he put X, Y and Z down? Would it include one of my doctor best friends who stated that he said to himself about a patient ' Hurry up and die, I want to go to a rave'. You imply that all doctors are saints. I could personally introduce you to about 10 that don't quite fit your criteria. I could, of course, also introduce you to another 10 or so, that would. 

Maybe you are right. Maybe I am. What's fairly evident to even the most feeble minded, surely, is that we are not getting the correct data. Data that one would hopefully and gladly give a child to produce, such are the so very simple mathematics, at any one point in time. 

Oh, so some hospitals will be quicker at reporting their stats, will they?  The NHS should be a uniform system, and NOT a postcode lottery, in terms of information etc - but mostly in terms of care.

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

6 hours ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

I'm saying that the Government haven't got the ability to count and accurately report on the number of deaths this country has experienced through infections from Covid - 19. Given that that is only in the tens of thousands, then this is preposterous. Do you really think that there should be an acceptable incidence to prove your thought that maybe some non Covid - 19 deaths are treated as Covid - 19 deaths, even though they are not. It would be further affirmation that they are totally inept, surely?

I’m not entirely sure of the point you’re making. In normal circumstances deaths are not recorded in real time and put straight into the figures within 24 hours, there are often delays, post mortems, inquests, contacting next of kin, obtaining consent. What is happening now is no different to what happens normally, however because we’re in the middle of a global pandemic the media and the public are picking over daily death figures, this does not happen in normal circumstances. If newspapers decided to report daily deaths from heart attacks every day, these figures would not be an accurate representation of who died from a heart attack the day before.

If actual deaths from Covid-19 were being covered up on wholesale basis then we would be seeing a rise in deaths from other causes, such as the example you have given of heart attacks. We are in fact seeing a decline in these which does not make any sense if Covid is being covered up, the figures have to go somewhere. As I stated a significant amount of deaths are being recorded as Covid-19 on a daily basis, so if a significant amount are being covered up where are they within the figures? 

If you’re suggesting that deaths are simply being misappropriated and then not featuring in the figures full stop, then this is an altogether different and more serious thing.

I’m inclined to think this isn’t the case though, for one when you’re trying to get people to stay in their homes I don’t get the benefit of down playing death figures. We've also spent a lot of time and money creating the nightingale hospital from scratch with 4000 beds. This has largely not been needed after all, seems like a lot of effort to go to to then ultimately not be used, while at the same time a huge amount of deaths are also being covered up which would suggest the NHS should be much closer to its capacity and this hospital should be full.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[Ozanne]

13 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I’m not entirely sure of the point you’re making. In normal circumstances deaths are not recorded in real time and put straight into the figures within 24 hours, there are often delays, post mortems, inquests, contacting next of kin, obtaining consent. What is happening now is no different to what happens normally, however because we’re in the middle of a global pandemic the media and the public are picking over daily death figures, this does not happen in normal circumstances. If newspapers decided to report daily deaths from heart attacks every day, these figures would not be an accurate representation of who died from a heart attack the day before.

If actual deaths from Covid-19 were being covered up on wholesale basis then we would be seeing a rise in deaths from other causes, such as the example you have given of heart attacks. We are in fact seeing a decline in these which does not make any sense if Covid is being covered up, the figures have to go somewhere. As I stated a significant amount of deaths are being recorded as Covid-19 on a daily basis, so if a significant amount are being covered up where are they within the figures? 

If you’re suggesting that deaths are simply being misappropriated and then not featuring in the figures full stop, then this is an altogether different and more serious thing.

I’m inclined to think this isn’t the case though, for one when you’re trying to get people to stay in their homes I don’t get the benefit of down playing death figures. We've also spent a lot of time and money creating the nightingale hospital from scratch with 4000 beds. This has largely not been needed after all, seems like a lot of effort to go to to then ultimately not be used, while at the same time a huge amount of deaths are also being covered up which would suggest the NHS should be much closer to its capacity and this hospital should be full.

Nightingale has been needed, they’ve had to turn away about 50 or so patients because they haven’t got the specialist nurses to treat the patients.

 

I think we should take a step back Yoghurt has clearly been really effected by the death of someone personal to them. It’s completely understandable why they would feel this way where the point is accurate or not. I’m really sorry this happened and I hope @Yoghurt on a Stick and family are doing ok. 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

7 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Nightingale has been needed, they’ve had to turn away about 50 or so patients because they haven’t got the specialist nurses to treat the patients.

 

I think we should take a step back Yoghurt has clearly been really effected by the death of someone personal to them. It’s completely understandable why they would feel this way where the point is accurate or not. I’m really sorry this happened and I hope @Yoghurt on a Stick and family are doing ok. 

When I say not been needed, I mean that’s we've passed the peak (in this wave) and it never got even close to be full. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

31 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I’m not entirely sure of the point you’re making. In normal circumstances deaths are not recorded in real time and put straight into the figures within 24 hours, there are often delays, post mortems, inquests, contacting next of kin, obtaining consent. What is happening now is no different to what happens normally, however because we’re in the middle of a global pandemic the media and the public are picking over daily death figures, this does not happen in normal circumstances. If newspapers decided to report daily deaths from heart attacks every day, these figures would not be an accurate representation of who died from a heart attack the day before.

If actual deaths from Covid-19 were being covered up on wholesale basis then we would be seeing a rise in deaths from other causes, such as the example you have given of heart attacks. We are in fact seeing a decline in these which does not make any sense if Covid is being covered up, the figures have to go somewhere. As I stated a significant amount of deaths are being recorded as Covid-19 on a daily basis, so if a significant amount are being covered up where are they within the figures? 

If you’re suggesting that deaths are simply being misappropriated and then not featuring in the figures full stop, then this is an altogether different and more serious thing.

I’m inclined to think this isn’t the case though, for one when you’re trying to get people to stay in their homes I don’t get the benefit of down playing death figures. We've also spent a lot of time and money creating the nightingale hospital from scratch with 4000 beds. This has largely not been needed after all, seems like a lot of effort to go to to then ultimately not be used, while at the same time a huge amount of deaths are also being covered up which would suggest the NHS should be much closer to its capacity and this hospital should be full.

Well, why does Care England indicate that Corona - 19 deaths within it's sector (Care Homes) are five times higher than the Government statistics? They're the people counting the related deaths at their end, but these aren't being included in official statss correctly. This occurrence does not make sense. This isn't an organisation trying to sell newspapers.

 

[Superscally]

13 hours ago, northernringo said:

Just playing devil's advocate here, but is there a demand for 100,000 tests a day?

I think every front line worker who wants tested can be tested.

Yes there is. It's not just about front line workers, it's about key workers too. 

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

19 minutes ago, Ozanne said:

Nightingale has been needed, they’ve had to turn away about 50 or so patients because they haven’t got the specialist nurses to treat the patients.

 

I think we should take a step back Yoghurt has clearly been really effected by the death of someone personal to them. It’s completely understandable why they would feel this way where the point is accurate or not. I’m really sorry this happened and I hope @Yoghurt on a Stick and family are doing ok. 

Thank you Ozanne, that's appreciated. 

It would be true that my knowledge of this area is very limited - I haven't really read this thread  in itr's entirety even. However, if several reputable sources say that the stats are askew, then one really does have to wonder. 

In addition to the above, why would the Government’s chief scientific adviser Sir Patrick Vallance state that evidence used to guide ministers through the coronavirus crisis will remain a SECRET until the pandemic is over? Why would you veil everything in secrecy if everything that you are doing is robust enough for scrutiny, right there, right then? Evidently it is not robust enough, surely?

[Superscally]

9 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

I’m just waiting for someone to question my maths / workings out  

Well I still plan on running from Liverpool to the Pyramid this year, so I'll let you know how it pans out.

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, Superscally said:

Well I still plan on running from Liverpool to the Pyramid this year, so I'll let you know how it pans out.

I hate to break it to you .. 

[Superscally]

12 hours ago, WhoamI? said:

"In 2014, 80% of homeless people in England reported that they had mental health issues, with 45% having been diagnosed with a mental health condition.^1"

https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/statistics/mental-health-statistics-homelessness

 

It's a different league over there as regards to mental health in the homeless. They'll have all of the above, plus far more severely affected people, who over here would be in hospitals or receiving industrial medication. I saw people walking around naked, barking like dogs and repeatedly headbutting lampposts. It's apples and oranges.

[Superscally]

3 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I hate to break it to you .. 

The Pyramid wont be there?

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

19 minutes ago, Yoghurt on a Stick said:

Well, why does Care England indicate that Corona - 19 deaths within it's sector (Care Homes) are five times higher than the Government statistics? They're the people counting the related deaths at their end, but these aren't being included in official statss correctly. This occurrence does not make sense. This isn't an organisation trying to sell newspapers.

 

Care homes are an entirely different issue than the one you raised. There is a significant delay with figures from care homes featuring in official figures. You have private care homes, charity run care homes, government run care homes. There is no one governing body that overseas them all, or one define process across all care homes for reporting deaths, hence the big delays.

[stuartbert two hats]

19 minutes ago, Superscally said:

The Pyramid wont be there?

Are they taking it down? It's there now.

[Ayrshire Chris]

11 hours ago, crazyfool1 said:

135,000 paying punters x2m 270,000m divided by 4 gates ..... each gate queue 67,500m ....  ish 

You havnt factored in the distance  taken up by the average sized festival goer,  say approx half a metre from arse to beer belly.  So it’s two and a half metres per person required. Then there’s those with carts the length of transit van to be considered😁. 

Edit. And then subtract those who are family members who live in the same household  who don’t have to social distance.  There must be a mathematical formula here, the theory of relatives ? 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Ayrshire Chris

[Matt42]

No John Lewis Christmas advert this year (or whatever they were planning). Apparently they were due to film it this week and every year it’s a massive project that they put together. They will obviously put something in its place, but it will be telling when we get to Christmas how dry content is going to be. Nothing can be filmed, and when the pre-recorded stuff runs out television is going to look rather empty.

Edited April 22, 2020 by Matt42

[Crazyfool01]

Just now, Matt42 said:

No John Lewis Christmas advert this year (or whatever they were planning). Apparently they were due to film it this week and every year it’s a massive project that they put together. They will obviously put something in its place, but it will be telling when we get to Christmas how dry content is going to be. Nothing can be filmed, when the pre-recorded stuff runs out television is going to look rather empty.

Would have thought it could be put back ? I mean we are still 8 months away ... there are still some things being filmed but they do look different ... santa might struggle though if he has to undergo quarantine.... 

[gizmoman]

9 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

No John Lewis Christmas advert this year (or whatever they were planning). Apparently they were due to film it this week and every year it’s a massive project that they put together. They will obviously put something in its place, but it will be telling when we get to Christmas how dry content is going to be. Nothing can be filmed, and when the pre-recorded stuff runs out television is going to look rather empty.

You say that as if it is a bad thing, Christmas has become far too commercialised and is just a consumption fest. Hopefully this year we can have a Christmas where we appreciate our families and the things we have  and not get carried away with the Black friday nonsense. I am not a christian but I'd still like a period of spirituality rather than what it has become.

Edited April 22, 2020 by gizmoman
spelling

[Ted Dansons Wig]

44 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

Care homes are an entirely different issue than the one you raised. There is a significant delay with figures from care homes featuring in official figures. You have private care homes, charity run care homes, government run care homes. There is no one governing body that overseas them all, or one define process across all care homes for reporting deaths, hence the big delays.

CQC? 

This has been ongoing for months now. There has been ample opportunity to define, collate and release effective figures. A delay to give smaller homes time to respond yes - ongoing fudging and obfuscation absolutely not

Edited April 22, 2020 by Ted Dansons Wig