When will this shit end?

[steviewevie]

14 minutes ago, DareToDibble said:

It’s never going to happen but I think of people knew an end date to all this they’d be a lot better off.

If you knew that on 1st May shops would reopen, 1st June pubs with small numbers then 1st July everything would be fully back to normal (just example dates) then people know they’re x% through. At the moment we have no idea.

The problem is nobody knows and any dates given would be complete guesses.

This is what Boris Johnson tried to do with the 12 week thing...but problem is, no one knows.

[WhoamI?]

2 hours ago, Ommadawn said:

How strange that you bring class into this. 

Why is it strange to refer to class in this context, please explain?

 

[Toilet Duck]

Maybe sunbathing not such great idea after all...emerging evidence on aerosol transmission (with the caveat that those in isolation rooms where the study was carried out would have been shedding significant amounts of virus).

https://www.nap.edu/read/25769/chapter/1

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.23.20039446v2

Not fully peer reviewed yet, but feeds into other advice currently being revised (or recently revised)...could be that face-masks or other face coverings could provide significantly more protection that we initially thought (I've always thought they were a key part of any exit strategy). Again I'm struck, looking at pictures of countries not in complete lockdown in Asia, by the fact that every person in the picture has a mask on, but not in "Western" countries. The above report would go some way to explaining the rampant transmission in countries where mask-wearing is not the cultural norm. Good quality public information on how to use them properly needed to underpin this as a strategy (if this is true, then it also has implications for SOPs regarding removal of PPE in healthcare settings as there are new reports suggesting aerosolization as PPE is discarded...would also go some way to explaining clusters in care homes, cruise ships etc). Previous studies have shown significant reduction in aerosol and droplet transmission for a range of respiratory viruses (including other coronaviruses) when masks are worn, but at the moment, still no indication whether this virus is infectious in aerosols (certainly is in droplets). 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

1 hour ago, DareToDibble said:

It’s never going to happen but I think of people knew an end date to all this they’d be a lot better off.

If you knew that on 1st May shops would reopen, 1st June pubs with small numbers then 1st July everything would be fully back to normal (just example dates) then people know they’re x% through. At the moment we have no idea.

The problem is nobody knows and any dates given would be complete guesses.

It would be brilliant if they could do that. I guess one reason they wouldn't alongside the unpredictability of the situation, is that if we all had an end date we’d all plan huge blow outs for when it ends, which they probably want to avoid!

I was talking to my neighbours yesterday about this though. One thing I’m struggling with is being productive with all the things I could in theory be doing. Because there is no fixed end date I end up wasting an awful lot of time doing not a lot, because there is no end date and no urgency. All the days blur into one with no end in sight. If I had a fixed end date I’d have a bit more pressure to do a few more worthwhile things with my time.

[zahidf]

12 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Maybe sunbathing not such great idea after all...emerging evidence on aerosol transmission (with the caveat that those in isolation rooms where the study was carried out would have been shedding significant amounts of virus).

https://www.nap.edu/read/25769/chapter/1

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.23.20039446v2

Not fully peer reviewed yet, but feeds into other advice currently being revised (or recently revised)...could be that face-masks or other face coverings could provide significantly more protection that we initially thought (I've always thought they were a key part of any exit strategy). Again I'm struck, looking at pictures of countries not in complete lockdown in Asia, by the fact that every person in the picture has a mask on, but not in "Western" countries. The above report would go some way to explaining the rampant transmission in countries where mask-wearing is not the cultural norm. Good quality public information on how to use them properly needed to underpin this as a strategy (if this is true, then it also has implications for SOPs regarding removal of PPE in healthcare settings as there are new reports suggesting aerosolization as PPE is discarded...would also go some way to explaining clusters in care homes, cruise ships etc). Previous studies have shown significant reduction in aerosol and droplet transmission for a range of respiratory viruses (including other coronaviruses) when masks are worn, but at the moment, still no indication whether this virus is infectious in aerosols (certainly is in droplets). 

Germany are looking at mandatory outside mask wearing if using the tube

[Spindles]

2 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

One thing I’m struggling with is being productive with all the things I could in theory be doing. Because there is no fixed end date I end up wasting an awful lot of time doing not a lot.

I can relate to that.  There are plenty of jobs I could have been getting on with, regardless of not being able to get hold of materials, but I've spent a lot of time browsing the web, playing games and taking naps.  I got a new job just before this all kicked off and the difficulties of the situation have meant that something normally as simple as getting contracts sorted has dragged on and I can't even get to work on that until that is resolved.

1 minute ago, zahidf said:

Germany are looking at mandatory outside mask wearing if using the tube

Expect the Austrian solution everywhere.  Simple masks state provided and mandated for use.  I don't think many would argue with this being absolutely the most sensible course of action.

[Toilet Duck]

3 minutes ago, zahidf said:

Germany are looking at mandatory outside mask wearing if using the tube

Seems sensible to me!

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

I’d be more than happy if they made wearing masks mandatory, certainly on things like the tube. It would remove the stigma and if nothing else would help to avoid a contagious person spread the virus.

[steviewevie]

But our "experts" have been telling us no need to wear them?

[Toilet Duck]

1 minute ago, steviewevie said:

But our "experts" have been telling us no need to wear them?

Our "experts" are rapidly revising their opinions! (to be fair, the reason they were not promoted at the outset was that they offer little protection for the wearer, contribute to a sense of security that might not be accurate so people take more risks thinking they are protected (much like body armour for contact sports, end up getting more injuries), and if used incorrectly are as much of a harm as they are a help (proper disposal/recycling/reuse needs to be clearly articulated)). Its going to take a bit of thought to get a simple protocol for everyone, but now that we have seen what the alternative is, I think widespread use will help us get back to some semblance of normality (I'd be a lot happier getting back on public transport for example if it became accepted). 

[stuartbert two hats]

2 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

Our "experts" are rapidly revising their opinions! (to be fair, the reason they were not promoted at the outset was that they offer little protection for the wearer, contribute to a sense of security that might not be accurate so people take more risks thinking they are protected (much like body armour for contact sports, end up getting more injuries), and if used incorrectly are as much of a harm as they are a help (proper disposal/recycling/reuse needs to be clearly articulated)). Its going to take a bit of thought to get a simple protocol for everyone, but now that we have seen what the alternative is, I think widespread use will help us get back to some semblance of normality (I'd be a lot happier getting back on public transport for example if it became accepted). 

They don't seem anywhere near as useful to me when you're in the open air - would you agree?

[Toilet Duck]

16 minutes ago, Deaf Nobby Burton said:

I’d be more than happy if they made wearing masks mandatory, certainly on things like the tube. It would remove the stigma and if nothing else would help to avoid a contagious person spread the virus.

Yep, that's the key point! 

[Spindles]

2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

They don't seem anywhere near as useful to me when you're in the open air - would you agree?

I can understand the thinking but if I'm honest I'd expect a mandatory masks outside the home would be the 'better safe than sorry' measure that I believe people would support.  As Nobby says, just helping skim some percentage points off transmission odds by helping us not accidentally pass it on is a win for us all.

[Toilet Duck]

2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

They don't seem anywhere near as useful to me when you're in the open air - would you agree?

There's a few things to consider though. Taking them on and off as you move from open air to a confined space brings its own risk of infection. Simpler to mandate in public. Also if aerosolization is real, then plumes of virus are exhaled and hang around in the air a lot more than heavy droplets from a cough/sneeze, so it changes how useful they are (again, mostly on the part of the person spreading the virus, not the wearer). 

 

 

[ivan]

1 minute ago, Toilet Duck said:

There's a few things to consider though. Taking them on and off as you move from open air to a confined space brings its own risk of infection. Simpler to mandate in public. Also if aerosolization is real, then plumes of virus are exhaled and hang around in the air a lot more than heavy droplets from a cough/sneeze, so it changes how useful they are (again, mostly on the part of the person spreading the virus, not the wearer). 

 

 

Masks could be the new plastic bags in terms of being dumped everywhere and another thing not to be flushed down the loo !

[whitehorses]

8 minutes ago, Toilet Duck said:

There's a few things to consider though. Taking them on and off as you move from open air to a confined space brings its own risk of infection. Simpler to mandate in public. Also if aerosolization is real, then plumes of virus are exhaled and hang around in the air a lot more than heavy droplets from a cough/sneeze, so it changes how useful they are (again, mostly on the part of the person spreading the virus, not the wearer). 

 

 

 

[Toilet Duck]

1 minute ago, whitehorses said:

 

It was the first thing I thought of too! Went to see that when it came out with two mates. One another virologist, the other a chef. He said he'd never come to the cinema with us again as we continued to pick holes in the science for the entire movie! 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

9 minutes ago, ivan said:

Masks could be the new plastic bags in terms of being dumped everywhere and another thing not to be flushed down the loo !

You’d like to think that given what’s involved that people would be a bit more mindful of that when disposing of them. Might even lead to special bins being introduced like they have for sanitary towels.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Deaf Nobby Burton

[whitehorses]

1 minute ago, Toilet Duck said:

It was the first thing I thought of too! Went to see that when it came out with two mates. One another virologist, the other a chef. He said he'd never come to the cinema with us again as we continued to pick holes in the science for the entire movie! 

Same. Saw it when it came out and had merrily forgotten most things about it till re-watched the other day 😂
 

Always remembered the ‘its airborne’ moment though, classic 

[Toilet Duck]

10 minutes ago, ivan said:

Masks could be the new plastic bags in terms of being dumped everywhere and another thing not to be flushed down the loo !

Yeah, there needs to be some thought put into how this could be rolled out. As Nobby says below, dedicated disposal bins may become the norm (I'm lucky, I have a biohazard bin 10 feet from my office, but most places are not like that!). Workplaces can easily provide these, though there's a fair bit of new health & safety training to go along with them! 

[stuartbert two hats]

I've already seen some latex gloves on the floor near my house

 

[Deaf Nobby Burton]

Short video on Wuhan right now attempting to return to normal: 

 

[Crazyfool01]

6 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I've already seen some latex gloves on the floor near my house

 

you  sure thats virus related ?  

[stuartbert two hats]

1 minute ago, crazyfool1 said:

you  sure thats virus related ?  

🤢😄

[Spindles]

11 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I've already seen some latex gloves on the floor near my house

It's also my own complaint locally.  I've seen multiple pairs discarded on the car park of asda the last couple of visits.  If you think it's worth worrying that the gloves might be contaminated enough to get in your car with them it is just plain cruel to expect someone else to pick them up.  Treat it like dogmuck.  Bag and dispose of it responsibly.

Edited April 6, 2020 by Spindles