Power to the People....did Glastonbury turn you into a Leftie?

[Yoghurt on a Stick]

8 hours ago, lukethekid said:

Don’t be daft, it was just a joke because it seemed like your message started really normal and then you just went off a bit a tangent. It’s mad that you’ve only ever came across two scousers especially as a Glasto attendee, the place is full of them, but no I wasn’t upset sorry for potentially upsetting you because you thought you’d upset me. 

My apologies, as I hadn't had a smoke in ages, and then somebody gave me a free spliff to smoke last night, and smoke it I did. It scrambled my brain somewhat and I think I lost the capacity to understand and express correctly. Which is partially what i want in a smoke, so shouldn't be that surprised, I guess. When i say I've only ever met two scousers I meant in a work capacity ie over a long period of time. I've obviously seen loads at Glastonbury over the years. That said I've never had any interaction with them. 

[Ayrshire Chris]

Met four lovely Scousers in the bread and roses bar in 2017, they had a huge Don’t buy the Sun banner with them. Stayed for a while and had a great laugh, the banter was tremendous. 

[phillyfaddle]

Always been a leftie, but then I'm Welsh. Glastonbury is like a gathering of my tribe - lots of different views, but heavily to the left. I'm finding I get more left wing as I get older, rather than less. I'll be full-on Marxist in another 10 years....

[Ayrshire Chris]

5 minutes ago, phillyfaddle said:

Always been a leftie, but then I'm Welsh. Glastonbury is like a gathering of my tribe - lots of different views, but heavily to the left. I'm finding I get more left wing as I get older, rather than less. I'll be full-on Marxist in another 10 years....

Yes I am the same , the old adage that as you get older you buy the daily fail and become more and more right wing is a load of bollocks. 

[dotdash79]

I'm moving more to the left as I get older, but the far left doesn't appeal to me.

I'm open to listening to different views to mine, as I don't believe you should live in a bubble.

[Stu H]

The festival hasn't changed my politics whatsoever, but I'm glad it's a platform for lots of voices - the Comedy Tent is always worth a visit for that very thing. Jeremy Hardy (RIP) was someone I saw a few times comparing and though I didn't agree with all of his views, he was marvellous. 

It's the ethos of "anything goes" and "everyone is welcome" that is the enduring thing from attending Glastonbury. And while it has obvious political leanings and platforms for views, it doesn't matter whatsoever for those 5 days what you believe in. Have a drink, chill out, say hello to the people next to you, have a good time.

[parsonjack]

On 1/20/2020 at 3:58 PM, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

Don't make ticket day any harder! 😂

Yeah....but it would be the best school trip....EVER!  😎

[jfaragher]

On 1/21/2020 at 8:46 PM, phillyfaddle said:

Always been a leftie, but then I'm Welsh. Glastonbury is like a gathering of my tribe - lots of different views, but heavily to the left. I'm finding I get more left wing as I get older, rather than less. I'll be full-on Marxist in another 10 years....

I relate - in the last 20 years I've moved from "we should have decent welfare policies and work to alleviate poverty" to "seize the means of production, form the communes, break out the guillotines"*

I'm fairly certain this is a reaction to the general move right of the Overton window in UK politics over the last few decades.  The idea that certain key infrastructures should be nationalised, or prices of certain things critical to life (housing, utilities) should be controlled, or even that people shouldn't live in crushing inescapable poverty if they fall on hard times / struggle to find their place in society - these all seem to be relegated to fringe politics these days, and I don't think I'm OK with that.

*for the avoidance of doubt, I'm exaggerating slightly - I don't advocate actually chopping peoples heads off, it's just a neat metaphor for removing a certain type / class  of person  from power

[glastofun]

On 1/21/2020 at 10:59 AM, Supernintendo Chalmers said:

Thank you for your eloquent response, you echo the sentiments of my former university lecturer and I do appreciate what you're saying. As I suggested, someone far more intelligent than myself could offer a hundred reasons why such adjectives are important. However, people were treating each other with compassion and empathy long before the terms "left" and "right" found their way into the modern vernacular. You may choose to associate my attitude to a particular ideology but I believe that labels (for want of a less cliche term), although they are important for some to define their specific principals or lifestyle choices, are constructs, unfortunately manipulated by those who seek to divide us based upon those very beliefs. That's what makes me uncomfortable.

And in response to the question posed in the OP, I believe that Glastonbury Festival in the main, breaks down the majority of those social barriers, simply by people behaving in a unifying, non-judgmental, inclusive manner. Just as life should be. 

I think you’re getting things the wrong way round. ‘Left wing’ people haven’t jumped onto the traits that you list in order to capitalise on them; people who value those traits tend to vote for left of centre parties as that is the political expression of empathy, respect etc etc. 
 

For example, if you’re empathetic, it wouldn’t make much sense to vote Conservative due to the fact that they really don’t care about food banks, or chucking people out of the country because (despite being asked to come here to work in the nhs 60 years ago) they never got a passport. Your argument seems to be, you can have values A, B and C, but then vote for a party that doesn’t believe in A, B and C. It doesn’t work like that. You find a party that represents your values as close as possible. 
 

What you then go on to say exposes an inherent problem with modern democracies, that is the passive nature of thinking that politics is something done to them (someone, other than you, using values to manipulate people). That’s a choice to make. You can be actively involved in politics, shape it, move it on. It doesn’t have to be a case of someone else manipulating a group of people. The politics you have should be intrinsically linked to the values you have. Not just something that is done to you during an election. 

[grumpyhack]

23 minutes ago, glastofun said:

For example, if you’re empathetic, it wouldn’t make much sense to vote Conservative due to the fact that they really don’t care about food banks, or chucking people out of the country because (despite being asked to come here to work in the nhs 60 years ago) they never got a passport. Your argument seems to be, you can have values A, B and C, but then vote for a party that doesn’t believe in A, B and C. It doesn’t work like that. You find a party that represents your values as close as possible. 

Puts on tin hat ready for possible flack.....  Though I consider myself a 'leftie' I have to in part defend many Conservatives about 'not caring.'

I think many do care, it's just that they propose different solutions to problems - such as 'have a free market to grow the economy and we'll all be better off.'  Labour has to be careful about promoting itself as the only party that 'cares.'  Such an approach risks alienating a lot of people who really care but just have different solutions and approaches to the problems.

I say that as someone who has never voted Conservative and wouldn't dream of doing to.  But, given at the last election the majority voted Conservative, you're not going to bring them back to Labour by simply branding them as 'uncaring bastards.'  Labour has to persuade them that there is a better and more viable way.

 

[Havors]

On 1/20/2020 at 2:03 PM, kalifire said:

I actually had a slightly different experience. I've always been left and come from hardcore lefty stock, but I was in Leftfield a few years ago when somebody on the right had the gall to suggest there could be a more balanced debate to be had. Billy Bragg was so viscous in his condemnation of such a suggestion, it actually made me a bit embarrassed to be aligned with him.

I mean, I get it - Leftfield is for those of us on the left. It's about recharging more than it is debating. But the self-exclusion of the left is one of the core problems we face. It's OK as long as it's just us in the room; freedom of speech is fine as long as it only applies to us; violence is horrible when it's the right but it's a revolutionary uprising when it's us.

Maybe I'm just getting older and therefore inevitably more right wing, but it seems to me that bubbles on either side of the political fence serve little more than to bolster pre-conceptions, whereas true progression lies elsewhere.

The irony is completely lost on some of the militant left. They are, in fact, quite bigoted. 

I have always been left there is no other way to be where I'm from. We learnt the hard way what the right can do. I would say Glasto fed my socialism though. 

[incident]

26 minutes ago, grumpyhack said:

But, given at the last election the majority voted Conservative

They didn't, but that's an entirely different conversation.

[Supernintendo Chalmers]

1 hour ago, glastofun said:

I think you’re getting things the wrong way round. ‘Left wing’ people haven’t jumped onto the traits that you list in order to capitalise on them; people who value those traits tend to vote for left of centre parties as that is the political expression of empathy, respect etc etc. 
 

For example, if you’re empathetic, it wouldn’t make much sense to vote Conservative due to the fact that they really don’t care about food banks, or chucking people out of the country because (despite being asked to come here to work in the nhs 60 years ago) they never got a passport. Your argument seems to be, you can have values A, B and C, but then vote for a party that doesn’t believe in A, B and C. It doesn’t work like that. You find a party that represents your values as close as possible. 
 

What you then go on to say exposes an inherent problem with modern democracies, that is the passive nature of thinking that politics is something done to them (someone, other than you, using values to manipulate people). That’s a choice to make. You can be actively involved in politics, shape it, move it on. It doesn’t have to be a case of someone else manipulating a group of people. The politics you have should be intrinsically linked to the values you have. Not just something that is done to you during an election. 

Again, thank you for a great reply. You're clearly well-versed in the intricacies of politics, and admittedly you have a far greater knowledge than I, not that I've ever sought to understand it more. Maybe it's my responsibility to do so? I don't know. I accept what you're saying regarding finding a party that represents my values as closely as possible and in fairness, that's what I do (there's something about tactical voting that has never sat comfortably with me but I guess it's necessary sometimes) but how I read the OP was how the festival has influenced me and personally, it's through the people rather than specific areas dedicated to a political persuasion.

The long and short of it is, I actively try to live by a specific code of ethics and the positive aspects that I've listed in my original post, those that I've encountered at Glastonbury over the five days each year only strengthen my resolve to be a better person. If someone wants to pigeon-hole me into a certain group based upon that way of living, so be it. 

[phillyfaddle]

On 1/21/2020 at 8:53 PM, Ayrshire Chris said:

Yes I am the same , the old adage that as you get older you buy the daily fail and become more and more right wing is a load of bollocks. 

Quite ✊

[phillyfaddle]

On 1/23/2020 at 11:20 AM, jfaragher said:

I relate - in the last 20 years I've moved from "we should have decent welfare policies and work to alleviate poverty" to "seize the means of production, form the communes, break out the guillotines"*

I'm fairly certain this is a reaction to the general move right of the Overton window in UK politics over the last few decades.  The idea that certain key infrastructures should be nationalised, or prices of certain things critical to life (housing, utilities) should be controlled, or even that people shouldn't live in crushing inescapable poverty if they fall on hard times / struggle to find their place in society - these all seem to be relegated to fringe politics these days, and I don't think I'm OK with that.

*for the avoidance of doubt, I'm exaggerating slightly - I don't advocate actually chopping peoples heads off, it's just a neat metaphor for removing a certain type / class  of person  from power

Agree 💯 with your second paragraph. I’m not ok with the direction of this country either. But change will only come with mass collective action. Something the French are rather good at! Can’t see it happening here though when the mainstream media and government are controlled by an oligarchy. Great articles on Byline Times about the rise of the oligarchs and what it means for democracy btw.