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6 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Do you not see this as an issue though? Some pricks on twitter are just those who are confident enough to vocalise their views. Many will agree and not say anything. I would much rather identify conversations we should be having and target them head on rather than leave it be.

Plus I can’t see why that example would be a problem unless the shoe fit?

How about the view that once a man has completed his sentence and paid his debt to society he is free to seek a living however he can?

It’s a sticky moral area when it comes to figures in the public eye, but were he a plumber would you stop him from installing toilets when he had finished his sentence?

The idea of rehabilitation and return to society to live a normal life is a core tenant of the justice system.

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2 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Do you not see this as an issue though? Some pricks on twitter are just those who are confident enough to vocalise their views. Many will agree and not say anything. I would much rather identify conversations we should be having and target them head on rather than leave it be.

Plus I can’t see why that example would be a problem unless the shoe fit?

You’re taking issue with a guy saying he hopes he pays his dues and learns from this? You think it’s toxic to hope that the rehabilitation system can rehabilitate someone?

Kasabian haven’t done anything to foster lad culture before have they? It’s just a generalisation you have for their fans. Imagine generalising rap fans for something abusive a rapper is found to have done, or pop punk fans because of one of their heroes doing shady shit.

People will be willing to indulge you in your ‘difficult conversations’ when you grow up about it.

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3 minutes ago, Hugh Jass said:

How about the view that once a man has completed his sentence and paid his debt to society he is free to seek a living however he can?

It’s a sticky moral area when it comes to figures in the public eye, but were he a plumber would you stop him from installing toilets when he had finished his sentence?

The idea of rehabilitation and return to society to live a normal life is a core tenant of the justice system.

Does that also count the guy from lost prophets? Or just a popular indie band?

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Just now, Hugh Jass said:

You are making yourself look ridiculous now.

But what if the guy from lost prophets came out of jail and served his time? By your logic he should be allowed to come back and make music.

Beating a woman is unforgivable, to me. He shouldn’t be allowed to occupy any sort of public platform. Plumbers aren’t considered role models in popular culture so it’s a stupid analogy. 

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Yes, ‘lad culture’ is something that needs to be stamped out in its current form. But let’s not vilify the bands/fans for making or listening to music they have a passion for (no matter if you think it’s shit or not) just because a few idiots also like the same music.

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4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

But what if the guy from lost prophets came out of jail and served his time? By your logic he should be allowed to come back and make music.

Beating a woman is unforgivable, to me. He shouldn’t be allowed to occupy any sort of public platform. Plumbers aren’t considered role models in popular culture so it’s a stupid analogy. 

I have no love for Kasabian whatsoever (or beating women, it goes without saying); but if being a huge alcoholic was really a big factor in all this and he deals with that and does all the other things right, I can sort of see how he might be able to plot a course through all this (rightly or wrongly).

The fact that he said the video was horrible and was apparently crying in court might suggest that he's got something in him.

Edited by Homer
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3 minutes ago, Jcatley said:

Yes, ‘lad culture’ is something that needs to be stamped out in its current form. But let’s not vilify the bands/fans for making or listening to music they have a passion for (no matter if you think it’s shit or not) just because a few idiots also like the same music.

This just sounds like not all men to me. Not all cops are bad. Not all white people  ya da ya da ya da. 

There is a problem in indie culture. Deal with it.

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4 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

But what if the guy from lost prophets came out of jail and served his time? By your logic he should be allowed to come back and make music.

Beating a woman is unforgivable, to me. He shouldn’t be allowed to occupy any sort of public platform. Plumbers aren’t considered role models in popular culture so it’s a stupid analogy. 

When Lost Prophets man gets out of prison then yes, by all means he is legally entitled to make music and attempt to distribute and play it publicly. Of course it’s highly unlikely that he would be able to find a label willing to sign him, or venues willing to book him or the general public prepared to even countenance listening to anything he had to say, but he’s legally free to try. You cannot stop him.

The plumber analogy is apt. It doesn’t matter if Tom Meighan unblocks toilets or sings songs, when he’s served his sentence he is free to pursue a living however he sees fit. His band do not have to take him back and the public don’t have to listen to his stuff, there’s no guarantee he’s walk out and start having #1 albums again.

It’s exhausting talking to you sometimes Matt, you see the world in such simplistic terms. You’re like a teenager who has done one term at uni and suddenly knows everything about the world.

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9 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

But what if the guy from lost prophets came out of jail and served his time? By your logic he should be allowed to come back and make music.

Beating a woman is unforgivable, to me. He shouldn’t be allowed to occupy any sort of public platform. Plumbers aren’t considered role models in popular culture so it’s a stupid analogy. 

Sex offenders, even the very worst kind, get released eventually.  Then they go back into society and are allowed to make a living within the boundaries of whatever conditions they are released under - which may be non.  They walk among us every day.

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3 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

This just sounds like not all men to me. Not all cops are bad. Not all white people  ya da ya da ya da. 

There is a problem in indie culture. Deal with it.

I clearly just said that there is a problem in indie culture and that it needs to be stamped out. But there’s probably a better way of doing it than your radical solution of vilifying anyone who’s ever liked an indie band. 

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19 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

Does that also count the guy from lost prophets? Or just a popular indie band?

Without diminishing the severity of what Tom has admitted to or the importance of confronting it, are you seriously comparing those two things? I mean, that was your go to for this argument?

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2 minutes ago, Andre91 said:

Will this really derail him in such a way that he is eternally blacklisted? John Lennon is remembered fondly by most and he beat the shit out of several women. 

No.  It's a crime, he deserves punishment, and he needs to sort himself out so he never does it again, and he does not deserve the sympathy in this case at all, but it won't blacklist him for ever.  Whether Kasabian have him back is another matter altogether. Whether he can produce anything worth buying on his own is another question.

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Horrendous. I’m off. This is why nothing ever changes because people never want to get to the roots of any issues or identify ways in which culture can be better. It’s not seeing things in simplistic terms it’s actually trying to have a proactive approach to these problems.

The fans want him to come back to music because they’l miss the tunes, they don’t care about what he’s done. That’s the simplistic and shallow view.

9 minutes ago, Jcatley said:

IBut there’s probably a better way of doing it than your radical solution of vilifying anyone who’s ever liked an indie band. 

And this is why things will never change. People have too much pride. It’s not vilifying, it’s opening conversations about how cultures can enable and develop these kind of behaviours. All I’m asking is for there to be more open discussions about how we can unknowingly contribute towards this culture. Lose some fucking pride and maybe step back and admit that we can all do better. Jesus Christ.

 

4 minutes ago, Quark said:

Without diminishing the severity of what Tom has admitted to or the importance of confronting it, are you seriously comparing those two things? I mean, that was your go to for this argument?

Do you not think that abusing a woman and abusing a child are entirely dissimilar? Both will be left with scars and emotional damage for the rest of their life.

I don’t see these things on a ladder of bad to most bad, they are both awful things to do and both don’t get wiped away with a “sorry” and 200 hours of community service.

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5 minutes ago, Jcatley said:

I clearly just said that there is a problem in indie culture and that it needs to be stamped out.

I don’t understand what the type of music has to do with the actions though. It seems like a shoehorned attempt to discredit music styles that somebody doesn’t particularly like. Just a weird thing to hang on to.

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