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efests Exit Poll


efests Exit Poll   

522 members have voted

  1. 1. Who did you vote for?

    • Brexit Party
      2
    • Conservatives
      33
    • Green Party
      23
    • Labour
      356
    • Liberal Democrats
      76
    • SNP
      17
    • UKIP
      2
    • Other
      12


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1 minute ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

So Labour should take up their place in the centre right?

No. Blair wasn't centre right no matter how much it suits some people to label him as that. 

Blair not being perfect is fuck all to do with him being centre right.

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If you couldn't be arsed to vote then you're not really in a position to be making any demands.

I'll be worse off under labour, no I don't earn over £80k but I'm a business owner which will mean a rise in dividend tax and corporation tax, however I have to think of my children and their opportun

It is quite interesting to see how opposition supporters are treated in this forum. On a similar vein,  my son is taking part in a social experiment. He has to wear a Tory rosette on his shi

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3 hours ago, kalifire said:

If Labour stand for fairness and equality and get beaten every time, that's preferable to compromising their principles to get power

And how many vulnerable people will that approach help? 

This is what is wrong with a so called principled but uncompromising politician. 

There are too many different power groups and opinions in a political party for a one size fits all solution.  The trick isn't to not compromise, the trick is to not compromise too much.

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3 hours ago, kalifire said:

I think it's difficult to pinpoint why Labour did so badly, and I'm minded to believe it was a perfect storm of:

  • General exasperation over Brexit and parliament's failure to sort it out
  • A leader - Jeremy Corbyn - who displayed little charisma or likeability outside of the bubble
  • A Labour membership utterly disconnected from the voting public and too distracted with themselves and their vision
  • A disunited shadow cabinet and PLP
  • The movement towards political extremes and the vacation of the centre ground

I don't think it was Labour's manifesto that did it, and I'd hate for those policies to be abandoned. If Labour stand for fairness and equality and get beaten every time, that's preferable to compromising their principles to get power.

That said, Momentum have to go along with Corbyn. If there's mass membership cancellations, so be it. They've been poison to the party.

Agree with all this.

I hope Keir Starmer gets a crack at it. I think he can tap in to what made Blair so popular. I'd love a socialist government personally, but clearly the public doesn't want that. The far left of the party might not be happy with a move towards the centre, but I think Starmer can be really successful. Always comes across very well informed, rational and likeable (in my view at least). 

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8 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No. Blair wasn't centre right no matter how much it suits some people to label him as that. 

Blair not being perfect is fuck all to do with him being centre right.

Agreed.

5 minutes ago, Benja100 said:

And how many vulnerable people will that approach help? 

This is what is wrong with a so called principled but uncompromising politician. 

There are too many different power groups and opinions in a political party for a one size fits all solution.  The trick isn't to not compromise, the trick is to not compromise too much.

Don't want to agree, but that appears to be reality.

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21 minutes ago, Superscally said:

I didn't call them ...

Benj, come on, to address your earlier point,...

As for Liverpool...

Thanks for this detailed and insightful post which I will reflect on, I have not posted it all to keep the thread concise

'Tory scum' is a general theme that to be fair I haven't seen on here and am not saying you said but I'm using it to make a point here.  I think whilst there are very many selfish people out there and they will likely vote Tory, there are very many more who see it as a social responsibility to not get the country into huge debt again.  Lots of Labour's manifesto was laudable.  And some of it was absolutely not.  I don't think it is helpful to get into the ins and outs and specific arguments about things but as an example a lot of voters and maybe less so on here due to age, remember the unions being overbearing, the railways not working well under nationalisation, and in some extreme cases things like rubbish piling up in the street and even unburied bodies due to strikes.  People looking to avoid a re-run of this are not selfish.  A lot of people associate austerity with an overspend.  I know the banking crisis was the trigger but public spending funded by borrowing was also factor, borroeing rose sharply in the Brown years.  Say that is 100% incorrect as some of you will believe.  Even if so, a vote motivated by that, is not selfish vote.  All I am saying is, if you are against predujuce, do not tar 14 million people with one brush.

As for Liverpool, I will defer to your comments about it - I have visited the city quite a few times and I have some family there who in fairness are pretty scathing about the 1980's, my views on it are shaped through a relatively narrow window of experience and seeing a boarded up street and having a man follow me down the main shopping street selling drugs was quite shocking to me at the time so it possibly over-colored my views so I will reflect on your comments and be less bullish with my opinion on this :)

 

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21 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

When the next General Election comes around, only Tony Blair will have won an Election for Labour in 50 years. 

We are a Tory country. Sad as fuck, but it's true.

100% this. And if the media remains as is or even more right leaning, and Scotland fucks off, it’s going to be nigh on impossible

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17 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

The Tories won the seat Grenfell was in.

Let that sink in for a minute.

 

16 hours ago, fatyeti24 said:

It's in Kensington, home of loads of very wealthy people. 

Very wealthy people that have a giant memorial of social injustice sitting outside their windows. 
 

I mean, it’s been covered up but they still walked past it to the polling station. 
 

I agree with @H.M.V - it stings. 

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29 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

No. Blair wasn't centre right no matter how much it suits some people to label him as that. 

Blair not being perfect is fuck all to do with him being centre right.

You've misread my point. My point is that even 'sensible' centre left politics might not cut it any more. It didn't do Gordon Brown or Ed Milliband much good.

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7 minutes ago, Benja100 said:

Thanks for this detailed and insightful post which I will reflect on, I have not posted it all to keep the thread concise

'Tory scum' is a general theme that to be fair I haven't seen on here and am not saying you said but I'm using it to make a point here.  I think whilst there are very many selfish people out there and they will likely vote Tory, there are very many more who see it as a social responsibility to not get the country into huge debt again.  Lots of Labour's manifesto was laudable.  And some of it was absolutely not.  I don't think it is helpful to get into the ins and outs and specific arguments about things but as an example a lot of voters and maybe less so on here due to age, remember the unions being overbearing, the railways not working well under nationalisation, and in some extreme cases things like rubbish piling up in the street and even unburied bodies due to strikes.  People looking to avoid a re-run of this are not selfish.  A lot of people associate austerity with an overspend.  I know the banking crisis was the trigger but public spending funded by borrowing was also factor, borroeing rose sharply in the Brown years.  Say that is 100% incorrect as some of you will believe.  Even if so, a vote motivated by that, is not selfish vote.  All I am saying is, if you are against predujuce, do not tar 14 million people with one brush.

As for Liverpool, I will defer to your comments about it - I have visited the city quite a few times and I have some family there who in fairness are pretty scathing about the 1980's, my views on it are shaped through a relatively narrow window of experience and seeing a boarded up street and having a man follow me down the main shopping street selling drugs was quite shocking to me at the time so it possibly over-colored my views so I will reflect on your comments and be less bullish with my opinion on this :)

 

Cheers Benj, the general (not exclusive) opinion of people who come to visit now is "oh, it's actually really nice", which wouldn't have been the case when I went to Uni. Still big problems and the feeling is that we're in the shit with this government. I lived this latest manifesto after having thought it was too left and unworkable at the previous one. Would love a groundhog Day with someone of the charisma of a Blair, Obama or Trudeau. Would be fascinating. I think the path of the last few election cycles would have been similar regardless of who was in, as economic advice is usually outsourced rather than in house decisions by politicians who aren't economists, but yeah, that's just my possibly incorrect opinion. 

This just feels like a botched, missed opportunity.

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5 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

You've misread my point. My point is that even 'sensible' centre left politics might not cut it any more. It didn't do Gordon Brown or Ed Milliband much good.

Neither was able to behave like a vaguely normal/relatable human being sadly. starmer May be able to pull it off 

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30 minutes ago, jparx said:

Agree with all this.

I hope Keir Starmer gets a crack at it. I think he can tap in to what made Blair so popular. I'd love a socialist government personally, but clearly the public doesn't want that. The far left of the party might not be happy with a move towards the centre, but I think Starmer can be really successful. Always comes across very well informed, rational and likeable (in my view at least). 

The far left of the party pretty much are the party these days.  Witness how much Starmer was seen during the six weeks of the election - one appearance standing behind his boss to offer answers to questions being asked of Corbyn as he spoke to the press about Brexit.  And then, like everyone else who wasn't a die-hard Corbynite, was relegated back to the shadows.

The Tories operated in exactly the same way with many of their big front benchers not being seen, so maybe that's just how it's done now, but I reckon it makes Starmer's chances of leading pretty slim.  Now is probably a good time to join Labour if that's the outcome you wish to see.

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Just now, jparx said:

That's amazing. The youth fucking rock.

The main group who are massively pro Lab in those charts are the 18-24 who will likely be paying very little if any tax and are not minded for things like mortgages, pensions and families on the whole as they are too young.  They do not remember the last disaster of a socialist government either.  All those people will be in the next age range at the next GE.  There is also an aging population in the UK as per most mature democracies due to declining birth rates so there will never be as many young voters in the 18-24 category as all the others.  

Labour needs to continue their focus on helping the vulnerable, social welfare, all that stuff we all love, but without demonising people who have a good job or aspirations - many wouldn't mind paying a bit more tax, I would imagine they would most likely want to do so with a cheery 'thanks' or just nothing, but not being told they are the rich elite, the few, a greedy c**t, selfish scum etc

It doesn't need to be so extreme and polarising and a more moderate party and leader could achieve this and really help 

 

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12 minutes ago, Homer said:

Neither was able to behave like a vaguely normal/relatable human being sadly. starmer May be able to pull it off 

Odd...neither them ever really struck me as abnormal or weird.

11 minutes ago, Homer said:

Nationalising broadband? And even that were the case, they chose the wrong man to sell it then 

Don't dispute the latter. Clearly.

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As an unreconstructed Blairite, here's what I think were the main problems with Labour's campaign:

1) Half the country wants Brexit, so a second referendum would have put this at serious risk.

2) Corbyn comes across as a terrible leader to anyone outside his rank and file.  He also has way too much baggage and no charisma whatsoever.

3) The Left always has credibility issues when it comes to managing the economy, so the uncosted nationalisation programme that nobody asked for and the post-manifesto giveaways (e.g. to Waspi women) exasperated this.  People worried that his spending and giveaways would run out of control and it wouldn't be the top 5% paying a bit more tax, it would be the top 50% paying a lot more tax.  Either that or we'd face national bankruptcy and austerity in years to come that would dwarf what we've just seen.

4) Whilst the antisemitism issue probably had little direct effect on the way people voted (outside of 1 or 2 north London constituencies), it demonstrated Corbyn's inability to lead and deal with difficult issues.  The Left's obsession with Israel is also a massive turnoff.

 

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54 minutes ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

When the next General Election comes around, only Tony Blair will have won an Election for Labour in 50 years. 

We are a Tory country. Sad as fuck, but it's true.

Or, in the last 22 years, 13 of them had a Labour government is the other way to look at it :)

 

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6 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

Odd...neither them ever really struck me as abnormal or weird.


Miliband, rightly or wrongly, couldn’t get a bacon sandwich down properly. He didn’t speak with any authority. Brown had no relatable personal touch (even though he apparently does in real life). Both were inferior at connecting with people than Blair, Cameron and Johnson.

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13 minutes ago, Homer said:


Miliband, rightly or wrongly, couldn’t get a bacon sandwich down properly. He didn’t speak with any authority. Brown had no relatable personal touch (even though he apparently does in real life). Both were inferior at connecting with people than Blair, Cameron and Johnson.

That statement is very very odd to me. It's factually accurate, but I cannot understand what connection someone from Rochdale, Oldham, Bury or Burnley has with them. I can't at all.

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