efests Exit Poll

[DeanoL]

33 minutes ago, stuie said:

We're not getting a second referendum now - this election was a confirmatory vote, in my opinion.  

And yet more people voted for PV/Remain parties than Brexit ones. So we would have won a confirmatory vote. Doesn't matter of course but it really should.

[Havors]

12 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

And yet more people voted for PV/Remain parties than Brexit ones. So we would have won a confirmatory vote. Doesn't matter of course but it really should.

It only highlights the problem with our electoral system.... peoples votes are not equal..... 

We need something more like proportional representation but that's not going to be happening during this generation now. 

[uscore]

I think the real shame is that Corbyn, Swinson, and all the opposition parties had Johnson trapped in a minority government where they had real influence over him, but chose to accept his challenge of a general election despite being so far behind in the polls.  There are a lot of Remainer MPs who had the chance to force through a second referendum, and not only have they lost that chance they've lost their seat too.  It was a spectacular miscalculation from a position of relative strength.

[BambooShanks]

I've spent the last 12 hours wishing I could go into a K hole so deep, it would take 5 years to come out of it.  

I am terrified.  Between having a disabled mother (who's in the process of losing her house and going through the trauma of the PIP application) and working in Social care, I'm finding it very hard to be anything but pessimistic right now.

 

I'm not surprised, I'm not even angry at people who voted for the tories.

I was initially confused as I just couldn't comprehend that so many people after seeing what the last 9 years have done to public services, homelessness, wages, working poverty, the NHS and everything else could still vote tory.  Except it isn't confusing, they had the media on their side and a weak opposition who, well, just completely fucked it.

38 minutes ago, uscore said:

The positive? spin now is that it is unarguably a Tory Brexit. They own it. They can claim credit for any unicorns it delivers, but they are responsible for any damage it causes

While yes, any failure of brexit will be down to the tories, they've successfully managed to get away with what they've done for the last 9 years.  All that will change is who they blame and while the bbc, S*n, Mail, Telegraph etc  are more than happy to spout the party line, they won't be held to account.

 

 

 

 

[Superunknown]

1 hour ago, SwedgeAntilles said:

Scottish independence is the way forward lads. The great thing about civic nationalism is y´all can just move there tomorrow and get to vote!

Unfortunately this is *partly* the reason Wales votes Tory. English retirees come here to live and then as demographics would tell us, tend to vote Tory. A quick look at the map for Wales and the constituencies closer to the border are blue, as well as the northern Welsh coast. Plaid holding the line in the West. 

Genuinely made up for Scotland though, been a long time coming and it makes a big statement.

[blue6field]

1 hour ago, zero000 said:

SNP logic:

 

Complain about being dragged out of a union of countries. 
 

Solution:

Remove themselves from another union of countries. 

Yip

[Superunknown]

1 hour ago, zero000 said:

SNP logic:

 

Complain about being dragged out of a union of countries. 
 

Solution:

Remove themselves from another union of countries. 

Not the same at all though is it. 

[Havors]

46 minutes ago, uscore said:

I think the real shame is that Corbyn, Swinson, and all the opposition parties had Johnson trapped in a minority government where they had real influence over him, but chose to accept his challenge of a general election despite being so far behind in the polls.  There are a lot of Remainer MPs who had the chance to force through a second referendum, and not only have they lost that chance they've lost their seat too.  It was a spectacular miscalculation from a position of relative strength.

I blame the Lib Dems for that.... once they supported it, it forced Labour to or they would look weak and like they were running away and contradicting them saying they were ready for a GE. 

They really should have just kept screwing Boris until they got a peoples vote... then once that was done call an election and Brexit would not have been involved. 

[FuzzyDunlop]

2 hours ago, Freddyflintstonree said:

I can't help but point out just how many people you think are bellends then. If you had to say "you're a bellend" to everyone you bumped into that voted tory, I really don't think you'd have a great time of it.

I know exactly how many. 20,453 in my constituency alone.

I don't go around kicking off with people, that isn't me - but I don't have to like what they stand for either.

Edited December 13, 2019 by FuzzyDunlop

[babyblade41]

What I can't understand is after the result so many current and now ex labour MP'S are all saying the same thing.

 

Their leader and his stance on Brexit was the problem... then why speak out now ?  bit late to be Bertie big balls .

 

Every government needs decent opposition and even now Corbyn will be staying until probably April...

 

Haven't heard much from Jon Ashworth, seems he wasn't joshing after all 

[Matt42]

I’ve kept off this for the entirety of today but there are some serious conversations (as a country) we need to be having.

The working class voted for the tories. This is not some domineering elite, or the 5% or whatever image of the political landscape labour wants to paint. The many not the few voted conservative.

There are ample reasons of why this may be. What is shocking to me is that Labour have completely lost their old stomping grounds, and the conservatives won in pretty much every corner of the country bar Scotland. 
 

Listening to some callers on LBC, my eyes have been opened to some nasty truths about modern Britain that I think as a country we need to address, and not stick our heads in the sand. The areas hit the worst by austerity have voted conservative. Has austerity worked? Are the working class sick of being labelled by labour as poor and stupid and in need of savouring? I think Corbyn is stuck in the 70s where the north is poor and most people struggle to make ends meet. People clearly don’t live like this otherwise the vote would be completely different.

We need to have some pretty hard conversations about how our country is now. Peak behind the curtain a bit more. The people who labour claim to be for, don’t want them.

[stuartbert two hats]

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm so angry, I think I nee @russycarps to come out of retirement.

[jparx]

20 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I never thought I'd say this, but I'm so angry, I think I nee @russycarps to come out of retirement.

If there ever was an ideal time for some Russy c bombs, it certainly is now.

Edited December 13, 2019 by jparx

[fred quimby]

19 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

 Are the working class sick of being labelled by labour as poor and stupid and in need of savouring?

Love that image

[Sasperella]

2 hours ago, FuzzyDunlop said:

We live in a democracy. The Tories should be in power.

It doesn't and shouldn't stop me thinking anyone who voted for them is a bellend though. Tories can dislike me for supporting a "terrorist sympathiser" that's the way it should work.

 

2 hours ago, Freddyflintstonree said:

I can't help but point out just how many people you think are bellends then. If you had to say "you're a bellend" to everyone you bumped into that voted tory, I really don't think you'd have a great time of it.

I'm just surprised he's not using a far far stronger word than "bellend" to be honest.. 

[gherkin8r]

State of this!

[Sasperella]

22 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I think Corbyn is stuck in the 70s where the north is poor and most people struggle to make ends meet. People clearly don’t live like this otherwise the vote would be completely different.

Sorry, what? I don't get this logic...?

People can be struggling to make ends meet and still vote Tory. Clearly. This is what's happened. It doesn't mean that all these people aren't poor!

[ian the worm]

My town Stroud swinged blue to a parachuted in newbie. No one can quite believe what just happened. Green took some of the remain vote here as we started XR here. 
 

Today my normally vibrant town centre feels like glasto Monday. I’ve just given to all the buskers, big issue family, bought expensive tat from the independents and pledged more to charities, but none of that felt kind, just the new normal. 

[stuie]

17 minutes ago, Matt42 said:

I’ve kept off this for the entirety of today but there are some serious conversations (as a country) we need to be having.

The working class voted for the tories. This is not some domineering elite, or the 5% or whatever image of the political landscape labour wants to paint. The many not the few voted conservative.

There are ample reasons of why this may be. What is shocking to me is that Labour have completely lost their old stomping grounds, and the conservatives won in pretty much every corner of the country bar Scotland. 
 

Listening to some callers on LBC, my eyes have been opened to some nasty truths about modern Britain that I think as a country we need to address, and not stick our heads in the sand. The areas hit the worst by austerity have voted conservative. Has austerity worked? Are the working class sick of being labelled by labour as poor and stupid and in need of savouring? I think Corbyn is stuck in the 70s where the north is poor and most people struggle to make ends meet. People clearly don’t live like this otherwise the vote would be completely different.

We need to have some pretty hard conversations about how our country is now. Peak behind the curtain a bit more. The people who labour claim to be for, don’t want them.

 

I hate to say it, but there's a large amount of the 'working class' that believe that immigration is the root of all the problems.  They think the NHS is struggling because of the amount of foreigners here, they take the jobs, they get the benefits, they live in houses while our home-grown are homeless etc etc yadayadayada...  Brexit is the magic cure and Boris will get it done in January!

Others I've spoken to believe that the only reason they've had to live with this Tory austerity is because of the way Labour handled the economy previously.

I don't think I've ever felt so disconnected from the people around me and right now, politics can do one.

 

 

[Matt42]

33 minutes ago, Sasperella said:

Sorry, what? I don't get this logic...?

People can be struggling to make ends meet and still vote Tory. Clearly. This is what's happened. It doesn't mean that all these people aren't poor!

My point is that there are poor people no longer swallow the saviour rhetoric by Labour. People are deciding to vote against their own interests, and to say that the north remembers is just factually inaccurate now. The conservatives are speaking to these people better than labour are!

[FuzzyDunlop]

1 hour ago, Matt42 said:

I’ve kept off this for the entirety of today but there are some serious conversations (as a country) we need to be having.

The working class voted for the tories. This is not some domineering elite, or the 5% or whatever image of the political landscape labour wants to paint. The many not the few voted conservative.

There are ample reasons of why this may be. What is shocking to me is that Labour have completely lost their old stomping grounds, and the conservatives won in pretty much every corner of the country bar Scotland. 
 

Listening to some callers on LBC, my eyes have been opened to some nasty truths about modern Britain that I think as a country we need to address, and not stick our heads in the sand. The areas hit the worst by austerity have voted conservative. Has austerity worked? Are the working class sick of being labelled by labour as poor and stupid and in need of savouring? I think Corbyn is stuck in the 70s where the north is poor and most people struggle to make ends meet. People clearly don’t live like this otherwise the vote would be completely different.

We need to have some pretty hard conversations about how our country is now. Peak behind the curtain a bit more. The people who labour claim to be for, don’t want them.

A very good post Matt.

As someone who lives in Heywood and Middleton, A traditional Labour heartland in North Manchester, 1 the Tories won - I am as well served as any on the forum to answer some of this.

Reasons they won it

1. Brexit. Brexit is the number one issue. People voted to leave. Like that or not. Lied to or not - they did. People around here believe they have not been listened to. I didn't vote in the referendum as I didn't care about whether we left or not. I still don't. There is an argument for each. Before 2016 the EU wasn't discussed by people I know. Now it is. The public have been duped into believing its an overriding issue in my opinion. However, that duping has led to it being the reason so many people around here voted for the Tories.

I believed that would see a surge in Brexit party votes. I thought there would be a protest vote. Just not to the Tories.

2. Overconfidence from Labour. Up until Monday I had not received a labour leaflet. I had not had anyone at my door. The Tories 3 leaflets. Brexit 1. Whilst that's only a small thing, I believe Labour never thought a 7,500 majority would be overturned.

3. Corbyn. He wasn't well liked. I heard people under the age of 40 complaining about him being an IRA sympathiser. That was an issue. My grandma is Labour through and through. She was a nurse. In 1984 my granddad died, she decided to become even more politically active. She was at orgreave helping miners who had been beaten by the cops. She was on pickets in Chesterfield. She has never voted anything but Red. She did again yesterday, but only just. When she is having 2nd thoughts - I knew there was trouble. Her issue. Corbyn was a leaver. Always was a leaver, but he flip flopped around. He can't be trusted. She voted to remain, but she felt that to not leave was an attack on democracy.

4. Diane Abbott. Like this or not. She is ridiculed. People laughed at her. Even if it was at times, downright lies and bullying.

5. People not taking labour seriously. "Free this, free that, free the other". That was how people saw the manifesto. Rather than looking at it and analysing it. It was seen as a magical mystical document.

6. People not caring. Turnout was low. A massive section of society around here didn't bother. There is large unemployment. I can imagine what the Tories will think of Langley and Darn Hill. 2 Massive council estates.

7. America. They have trump, we have Boris

8. Racism. Heywood is a racist place. I know it is. I rarely rarely see a non white face. It is the only town in the country that has a pub which hangs a pre apartheid South African flag outside of it.

Edited December 13, 2019 by FuzzyDunlop

[zero000]

1 hour ago, Superunknown said:

Not the same at all though is it. 

Really is. Both are driven by Nationalism however we might try and spin it.   
 

The “taking back control” argument is espoused  by Brexiteers and the SNP. 

[Matt42]

Socialism is also not happening in the UK. We aren’t a left wing country. You can shame the country till the cows come home but it’s the will of the people now to reject it.

Labour won’t advance again until they drop socialism imo.

[UEF]

The Boomtown group on Facebook having an absolute meltdown this morning with self-declared 'compassionate' types lashing out at anyone who doesn't agree with them. 

[SwedgeAntilles]

1 hour ago, zero000 said:

Really is. Both are driven by Nationalism however we might try and spin it.   
 

The “taking back control” argument is espoused  by Brexiteers and the SNP. 

That assumes all nationalism is the same which, I'm afraid, is bollocks.