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Unique IPs on T day


morph100
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How many unique IPs on T Day did you control?  

195 members have voted

  1. 1. How many unique IPs on T Day did you control?

    • 1
      32
    • 2-3
      106
    • 3-4
      32
    • 5-7
      16
    • 7-10
      1
    • 10-15
      0
    • 15-20
      3
    • 20+
      5


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6 minutes ago, clarkete said:

I did the same as you and didn't succeed, indeed only one of them consistently even kept the queuing page, others showed it, but then went on to error.  

None of them even got to enter reg details let alone payment - same experience Thursday too.

Yeh, multiple IPs can't guarantee success unfortunately. The three others didn't get anywhere (although they were all at least on the holding page). I think the one that got through was a new temporary work phone, so it was just good timing that I even had it in my possession at all. 

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1 hour ago, mpdow2 said:

I think multiple tabs / browsers on same IP will just lock you out as you will easily go over 60 refreshes per second. 

not correct.

Lots of IP addresses are 'legitimately' shared. Only allowing one instance on an IP address would lock out just about everyone using a mobile, for example, or anyone from within the NHS (there's a gateway it all goes thru), etc.

So whatever See are doing, it definitely can't be working on just the IP address. Whether or not it's combined with other stuff they're able to capture I'm not sure, tho I can't think how.

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1 hour ago, OrganicShamanic said:

That's correct.

See's rate limiting is based on IP address (possibly amongst other things, but I've seen no evidence for anything else). Therefor, assuming each connection is making successful requests, more IP addresses allow you to make more requests per minute before you are limited/redirected.

I've seen evidence that it's not IP based - all those people using mobiles who got tickets successfully, where huge numbers will have been sharing IP addresses.

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2 IPs. 1 because I was trying on my phone.... through that is undoubtedly not unique, as mobile operaters tend to use 1 IP for a shed load of users, and 1 for my house. No confirmation bias about why it worked.  Some years I'm lucky, and others I'm not. 

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I think there needs to be a distinction between the different ways you failed to get a ticket:
1)    You consistently were able to refresh a busy page but didn’t get through (or further than that)
2)    You never even saw a busy page

If you fall in camp 1 then you just had bad luck and didn’t catch a free slot whenever you refreshed. Fair enough, that’s the way the system works.
If you fall in camp 2 then you were probably never in the running at all 

Question is why does 2 happen? Maybe an overload in a network link between you and See. I can’t say for certain as during the sale I didn’t do the kind of tests that might help prove that. Was too busy trying to get myself a ticket. There are other possibilities too of course. 

In previous years I have failed to get any busy page on my home broadband but this year I did. No guarantee the network route between me and the website is the same as last year and also no guarantee it was under the same amount of load.

With too many factors involved in reality there is probably no reliable way to control or know in advance whether you’ll fall into 1 or 2. And so it’s just another layer of ‘luck’ you need to go your way. It could be mitigated a little by using different internet connections but that’s no guarantee. You still need to get lucky that one of them can at least get a busy page to have a chance.
 

Edited by cerv
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Yeah, this was weird as I got through to the busy page straight away and had no trouble refreshingthis over and over again, even when doing a CTRL-F5 to clear the cache. Still didn't get through to the next step however.

Reduced the number of sessions / IP's this year as it had just become too complicated to manage them all and if anything this may have even reduced the number of refreshes I was able to achieve. Stuck to 3 - one broadband, one mobile telco and one corporate MPLS.

 

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7 hours ago, Sasperella said:

Surely even if it is just luck, the more windows open you have, the more stabs at "luck" you get? Whether you need each window or device to be in a different IP seems murky though....

My theory, which is based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever, is that all more browser windows and more tabs do is slow your progress and make it harder for you to get through to the hold/buying pages. So as soon as you hit f5 your speed for it to be processed by See is slower than someone else's so you miss it every time.

I would also be interested to know if the people who report being booted out when entering registration or payment details had numerous browsers and tabs open at the time, making it more difficult to retain connection to the See servers due to interference from all the other windows/tabs also trying to access them. 

Edited by Johnnyseven
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16 minutes ago, Johnnyseven said:

My theory, which is based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever, is that all more browser windows and more tabs do is slow your progress and make it harder for you to get through to the hold/buying pages. So as soon as you hit f5 your speed for it to be processed by See is slower than someone else's so you miss it every time.

I would also be interested to know if the people who report being booted out when entering registration or payment details had numerous browsers and tabs open at the time, making it more difficult to retain connection to the See servers due to interference from all the other windows/tabs also trying to access them. 

Yeh, that's kinda why I went for devices on different IPs (or "internets", if you will. I assume that's what people mean when they say IPs) ....seemed logical to me they'd slow each other down all on the same one. But as my post shows, I'm not the most technical!

Edited by Sasperella
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10 minutes ago, Brave Sir Robin said:

Anyone get through on a VPN? Thought it'd do me good but never even saw a busy page on it. Got me thinking maybe they were blocking them... although a VPN identifiable as a VPN wouldn't be a very good VPN!

VPNs are generally shared though, I think they do more harm than good

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Not a VPN, but I did give TOR a go (with a European exit node) on one computer.

Even though its bloody slow way of doing things, it was the first computer to actually get the holding page, thought it didn't get any further (by then I had a message to say we had got tickets so I stopped everything trying at that point).

It does reinforce my view that vast amounts of bandwidth and low latency aren't important in the overall attempt when trying to  get a ticket. 

Edited by DarrenVonBoathook
grammer
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I did exactly the same this year as I did on both October sales last year. One browser routed through Switzerland using a BPN extension and One browser on home WiFi both on the same laptop wired into the Router. One phone on 4G with BT (EE) and one phone on 4G with O2.

 

Last year I failed at both sales. This year I got through on both sales (the browser on my home WiFi). Total luck.

Edited by MEGABOWL
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2 hours ago, Brave Sir Robin said:

Anyone get through on a VPN? Thought it'd do me good but never even saw a busy page on it. Got me thinking maybe they were blocking them... although a VPN identifiable as a VPN wouldn't be a very good VPN!

I did, had three browsers on my laptop, safari on normal university WiFi and chrome and firefox using the NordVPN extension, chrome was the one that got through and got my tickets in the end, this was Thursday btw

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5 hours ago, cerv said:

I think there needs to be a distinction between the different ways you failed to get a ticket:
1)    You consistently were able to refresh a busy page but didn’t get through (or further than that)
2)    You never even saw a busy page

If you fall in camp 1 then you just had bad luck and didn’t catch a free slot whenever you refreshed. Fair enough, that’s the way the system works.
If you fall in camp 2 then you were probably never in the running at all 

Question is why does 2 happen? Maybe an overload in a network link between you and See. I can’t say for certain as during the sale I didn’t do the kind of tests that might help prove that. Was too busy trying to get myself a ticket. There are other possibilities too of course. 

In previous years I have failed to get any busy page on my home broadband but this year I did. No guarantee the network route between me and the website is the same as last year and also no guarantee it was under the same amount of load.

With too many factors involved in reality there is probably no reliable way to control or know in advance whether you’ll fall into 1 or 2. And so it’s just another layer of ‘luck’ you need to go your way. It could be mitigated a little by using different internet connections but that’s no guarantee. You still need to get lucky that one of them can at least get a busy page to have a chance.
 

That’s exactly how I see it. I tend to have a few devices with independent connections. Without fail some of them just completely crash and some of them get a holding page successfully.

Across the last 5 Sunday sales I’ve always got a holding page on at least one, and only once have I not then got a booking page which was last years sale. I just give up on the ones that crash, absolutely no point wasting time messing about with them.. however if that was your only connection then you’d pretty much have been doomed.

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11 hours ago, eFestivals said:

yep, cos that's how 'luck' - for this process, it's really randomness -  works.

If lots of people roll a dice 6 times, some people will roll 6 sixes.

(lots of devices & tabs quite possibly increased your chances, tho).

I am not sure you understood the point I was making, or you were being awkward. I know I have been lucky in the past, but what is that made me even luckier than the average punter?That's what I would love to understand. More tabs, more computers, more isps, I dont know. Something was improving my chances, like many others on these boards. It wasn't that we were all lucky, we were doing something different to the average punter. Just interested to know what that was

 

 

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3 hours ago, Brave Sir Robin said:

Anyone get through on a VPN? Thought it'd do me good but never even saw a busy page on it. Got me thinking maybe they were blocking them... although a VPN identifiable as a VPN wouldn't be a very good VPN!

I had a laptop using Private Internet Access VPN. Of our four laptops this was the only one that didn't get a holding page. After 10 minutes I switched it to our home wifi and I got the holding page immediately. 4 devices on 3 diferent internet connections and no tickets.

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1 minute ago, Benja100 said:

What is the refresh rate where rate limiting kicks in and how do we know what it is or is the 3 second thing a guess?

More than 60 refreshes in a minute gets you blocked according to tests people conducted with the holding page before the sale.

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42 minutes ago, Benja100 said:

WHat does getting blocked look like

You don't get 'blocked' per se.....you get handed the 'busy' page which stays with you until your refresh rate drops to within the limit.  The point is that during the sale you won't know if the busy page is there because the system is actually 'busy' and unable to allocate a booking session to you, or whether you have it because your refresh rate is too fast.

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12 hours ago, OrganicShamanic said:

That's correct.

See's rate limiting is based on IP address (possibly amongst other things, but I've seen no evidence for anything else). Therefor, assuming each connection is making successful requests, more IP addresses allow you to make more requests per minute before you are limited/redirected.

This. 

It's all about increasing your chances. The bigger the spread, the more chances. 

I had 5 different IPs spread different tabs all auto refreshing once a second (and clearing cookies). One got through about 10 mins, nothing thereafter. 

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