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Pukkelpop 2020


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17 hours ago, Death By Sexy said:

As headliners, yes, but Main Stage, Marquee or Dance Hall closer, they are perfect. 

Yeah, but they don't want another stage except for the main stage. But their glory days are already a long time behind us. 

I don't know. I really like them. But I don't think their demands don't fit their value anymore. And they are not really cheap. Yes, 90% chance they will play Pukkelpop next year. But just to be clear, they moved them from RW to Pukkelpop because PKP were in desperate need of bigger names. 

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59 minutes ago, Ken19 said:

Yeah, but they don't want another stage except for the main stage. But their glory days are already a long time behind us. 

I don't know. I really like them. But I don't think their demands don't fit their value anymore. And they are not really cheap. Yes, 90% chance they will play Pukkelpop next year. But just to be clear, they moved them from RW to Pukkelpop because PKP were in desperate need of bigger names. 

Their liveset is still really good but also expensive and for Main Stage only... And they don't sell out a day by theirselves.

So they're a perfect Main Stage closer after another big act. Isn't this too expensive for PKP?

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4 hours ago, gigi21 said:

Their liveset is still really good but also expensive and for Main Stage only... And they don't sell out a day by theirselves.

So they're a perfect Main Stage closer after another big act. Isn't this too expensive for PKP?

I don’t know if it is worth the money if you have 10000 people before the main stage. For their price it feels better if you have 25000 people before the main stage. 2016 was really empty. Their production is massive and that is translated in their asking price. 
 

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27 minutes ago, Ken19 said:

I don’t know if it is worth the money if you have 10000 people before the main stage. For their price it feels better if you have 25000 people before the main stage. 2016 was really empty. Their production is massive and that is translated in their asking price. 
 

So, why will they book again for PKP 21 if they have time enough to look for another headliners?

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1 hour ago, Ken19 said:

Contract? 🙂

It's has been looking this way over the past few weeks but are you expecting pretty much every major band on 2020 lineups in europe  to be in the same place in 2021 with what is happening in Belgium?

 

Edit - I mean I know nothing about booking bands but I assuming most major festivals put a downpayment on headliners and major bands before relying on ticket revenue.

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1 hour ago, tomato12345 said:

It's has been looking this way over the past few weeks but are you expecting pretty much every major band on 2020 lineups in europe  to be in the same place in 2021 with what is happening in Belgium?

 

Edit - I mean I know nothing about booking bands but I assuming most major festivals put a downpayment on headliners and major bands before relying on ticket revenue.

It's normally half up front and half after the show isn't it? 

I think 2021 will be pretty much a carbon copy of 2020 festival line ups barring bands splitting up, members dying etc. 

Benefit to Pukkelpop is that is does buy a bit of time to get someone booked who wasn't touring this year. A Radiohead for example. And maybe Bon Iver will play after all? (really like his new one) 

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I think most of the line ups will be back in 2021, 60/70%. The others we can expect the following years (Taylor Swift would not be back in 2021, something that I’ve heard, but she will be in 22/23, something with a new album by then).

The contracts are still counting, the fans who had a ticket for this year will be there too next year most of the time...

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9 hours ago, lighthouse said:

Holy hell that would be excellent.

 

I know we keep going back to 2016 and the poor crowds for the Chems and Noel Gallagher but I really think some of that should be attributed to the horrendous booking that was Rihanna. If for example it was Radiohead (or Muse, who I believe were available) booked in that slot you'd have seen a knock on effect for the rest of the weekend with bigger crowds. They thought they were getting a bargain when they booked Rihanna but it was a bit of a fuck up because 1, she was shit and 2, she didn't bring in the crowds they thought she would. 

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1 hour ago, DDave said:

I know we keep going back to 2016 and the poor crowds for the Chems and Noel Gallagher but I really think some of that should be attributed to the horrendous booking that was Rihanna. If for example it was Radiohead (or Muse, who I believe were available) booked in that slot you'd have seen a knock on effect for the rest of the weekend with bigger crowds. They thought they were getting a bargain when they booked Rihanna but it was a bit of a fuck up because 1, she was shit and 2, she didn't bring in the crowds they thought she would. 

They should have seen 2 coming, as Boutique had been cancelled due to poor ticket sales.

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7 hours ago, DDave said:

I know we keep going back to 2016 and the poor crowds for the Chems and Noel Gallagher but I really think some of that should be attributed to the horrendous booking that was Rihanna. If for example it was Radiohead (or Muse, who I believe were available) booked in that slot you'd have seen a knock on effect for the rest of the weekend with bigger crowds. They thought they were getting a bargain when they booked Rihanna but it was a bit of a fuck up because 1, she was shit and 2, she didn't bring in the crowds they thought she would. 

I don’t think it would have saved Chems, Noël (what a dissapointment, some people believed that he would be a future headliner) and LCD (what a show by the way) in audience. Radiohead was a wonderful show at Werchter 2017, still one of my all time favourites in Werchter, but the field was not that full. The Hive had their biggest party ever that night (it was really crowded already around 11pm, never been seen).

You know what the majority of the crowd is at Pukkelpop these days... it would not really have made a difference. 
The legendary tenth shows from The National, on a great alternative line up, were never that crowdy either. Pukkelpop has been changed and their Dance area is more important than ever. 

Very difficult to find the right balance. 

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9 hours ago, Ken19 said:

I don’t think it would have saved Chems, Noël (what a dissapointment, some people believed that he would be a future headliner) and LCD (what a show by the way) in audience. Radiohead was a wonderful show at Werchter 2017, still one of my all time favourites in Werchter, but the field was not that full. The Hive had their biggest party ever that night (it was really crowded already around 11pm, never been seen).

You know what the majority of the crowd is at Pukkelpop these days... it would not really have made a difference. 
The legendary tenth shows from The National, on a great alternative line up, were never that crowdy either. Pukkelpop has been changed and their Dance area is more important than ever. 

Very difficult to find the right balance. 

Based on my experience on festival life, I love the variety and the choice possibilities that PKP's lineup always offers and I'd love if they'd use more and more, in the future, the "200+ quality shows for various tastes" scheme as a distinctive feature, trying to stimulate crowd curiosity more than with supermassive names.

I know it can be risky having 80k tickets to sell, but it could also be their winning strategy.

Edited by gigi21
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I love Pukkelpop too... but people want the big names. Every year I have many conversations with people that ask me Rage? Foo’s? Radiohead? ... and if i explain that they want to focus on a line up that is strong from start to finish (They have no choice: too expensive and a lack of big names touring in their period), they reply: why? We want those big names...

 

 

Edited by Ken19
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Well, Dour Festival is doing a pretty good job isn't it? 

Off course, booking big headliners is the easiest way to increase ticket sales, but there are obviously more factors. In the case of PKP, I think it's hard for the festival to take a step back because they've created certain expectations. I think PKP can survive without the major headliners, but than they have to reinvent themselves a bit (f.e. focussing more on certain target audiences) , not just taking the top layer off. 

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1 hour ago, Jochen said:

Well, Dour Festival is doing a pretty good job isn't it? 

Off course, booking big headliners is the easiest way to increase ticket sales, but there are obviously more factors. In the case of PKP, I think it's hard for the festival to take a step back because they've created certain expectations. I think PKP can survive without the major headliners, but than they have to reinvent themselves a bit (f.e. focussing more on certain target audiences) , not just taking the top layer off. 

Also in the top of the organisation you have different views about the festival and its future. There are people who wants the big names, like a couple years ago, Eppo and live nation wants to focus on the total picture... 

last year Foo fighters were a sure thing for a long time, but after a while they took the right decision to stop the negotiations with them, with that money they could make an overall stronger festival.

Edited by Ken19
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16 minutes ago, Ken19 said:

Also in the top of the organisation you have different views about the festival and its future. There are people who wants the big names, like a couple years ago, Eppo and live nation wants to focus on the total picture... 

last year Foo fighters were a sure thing for a long time, but after a while they took the right decision to stop the negotiations with them, with that money they could make an overall stronger festival.

Ken, why did Pukkelpop killed Shelter Stage 3 years ago? Now that not many bands are touring Europe in August as 10 years ago, the best punk/hc bands of the planet are touring Europe due to festivals as Punk Rock Holiday, Bay Fest, Tsunami or Rebellion.

Why refusing these thousands of tickets sold and why giving the opportunity to Brakrock to book all these bands and stealing them 4 or 5 thousand of people?

Shelter Stage was best PKP Stage for lot of people (me included)

Eppo loves this kind of music. Why did he permit this stupid decision?

Edited by johnybegood
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2 hours ago, lighthouse said:

The last times I visited Pukkelpop were also the last years of the shelter, and that stage was probably the least crowded one on the field... 

Last year of the shelter, they made it smaller and I saw lot of crowded concerts there: Refused, Thrice, Comeback Kid,  Beach Slang or Marky Ramone come to my mind.

That year there wasn’t any rock headliner, but if you book a band like Slipknot, Green Day or SOAD as headliner, you will have no problem in packing shelter all day, as happened in 2015 when Linkin Park played there (this year also booked bands as Offspring, Dropkick Murphys or Limp Bizkit for the Main Stage so the Shelter was really crowded all weekend.

Edited by johnybegood
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7 hours ago, johnybegood said:

Ken, why did Pukkelpop killed Shelter Stage 3 years ago? Now that not many bands are touring Europe in August as 10 years ago, the best punk/hc bands of the planet are touring Europe due to festivals as Punk Rock Holiday, Bay Fest, Tsunami or Rebellion.

Why refusing these thousands of tickets sold and why giving the opportunity to Brakrock to book all these bands and stealing them 4 or 5 thousand of people?

Shelter Stage was best PKP Stage for lot of people (me included)

Eppo loves this kind of music. Why did he permit this stupid decision?

Because it didn't shift thousands of tickets anymore.

Except for some bands and the headliners, the shelter didn't attract a big crowd anymore.

One day PKP is +- 100 euro. That's almost the price of a combiticket of a smaller festival that only books names that could perform in the Shelter. Every subgenre and every shithole in Belgium has it own festival nowadays. It's hard for PKP to attract a metal/punk/hardcore crowd because they have better options for a lesser price. I can't blame the rockers to go to another festival.

With so few people visiting the shelter, it isn't reasonable to keep the shelter. The bands are really expensive because they have multiple artists in a band, they have a crew, the instruments costs a lot....  The shelter was too expensive I think. 

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2016 was not their best year. They still carry the financial debt from 2011 (live nation helped them a lot, without live nation, no more Pukkelpop) and have not the biggest savings anymore. But they wanted to go to fast, expansion from 8 to 10 stages (why? We gave them the advise not to do it, it was too soon), a lot of costs, and the sales were disappointing. Also, the crowd doesn’t consumate enough. 
Hard decisions followed. Cancelling the shelter was one of them and not giving millions for one band was another. 

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Looking at the whole situation from Italy, where we don't have big festivals, I always feel strange when I read about crowd from a Nation that also have Graspop, Werchter and a lot of other smaller festivals, complaining for not having at Pukkelpop the names they can have at the other festivals. Ok, I know that people will always want more but, hey, if you like the other festivals more than this one, simply go to those ones. :) 

I've been at some concerts at the Shelter in 2015 and honestly I remember it quite full, but not packed, with some bands in the evening and totally empty with bands like Dillinger Escape Plan at 6 pm on Saturday. I don't remember those thousands of punks or metalheads around the festival area (yes they were surely more than last year, but I think 5k people buying the festival pass only for Shelter is very optimistic).

Rise Against at the Marquee in 2017 is the only massive exception I remember, but I also remember the tent being almost empty with At The Drive In who played right before them, at 8.45 pm.

I sincerly understand if they are putting in the mix some more dance, electronic, indie, pop, rap, or alternative-pop acts despite of some punk, metal and experimental-jazz ones (that you can still find even if less than a few years ago).

 

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39 minutes ago, gigi21 said:

Looking at the whole situation from Italy, where we don't have big festivals, I always feel strange when I read about crowd from a Nation that also have Graspop, Werchter and a lot of other smaller festivals, complaining for not having at Pukkelpop the names they can have at the other festivals. Ok, I know that people will always want more but, hey, if you like the other festivals more than this one, simply go to those ones. :) 

I've been at some concerts at the Shelter in 2015 and honestly I remember it quite full, but not packed, with some bands in the evening and totally empty with bands like Dillinger Escape Plan at 6 pm on Saturday. I don't remember those thousands of punks or metalheads around the festival area (yes they were surely more than last year, but I think 5k people buying the festival pass only for Shelter is very optimistic).

Rise Against at the Marquee in 2017 is the only massive exception I remember, but I also remember the tent being almost empty with At The Drive In who played right before them, at 8.45 pm.

I sincerly understand if they are putting in the mix some more dance, electronic, indie, pop, rap, or alternative-pop acts despite of some punk, metal and experimental-jazz ones (that you can still find even if less than a few years ago).

 

I am pretty sure than a Shelter headlined by Bad Religion or Sum 41 and 4 or 5 Punk Rock Holiday bands before them (Lagwagon, Strung Out, Zebrahead, Sick Of It All...) can sell 4K tickets easily. 2020 was a year without Groezrock. 

Just look how many tickets are sold in the punk day of Lokerse Feesten and how many tickets are sold now in Brakrock and how many did this small festival used to sell when the Shelter was running.

Not all PKP stages are full during all day. I have seen empty concerts at 6pm in the Marquee, Main Stage and in the smaller stages.

In the last years all nice punk bands are touring Europe in August, so new punk and rock festivals are appearing (Tsunami, Bay Fest, Crash Festival) or growing (Punk Rock Holiday or Brakrock). It is so stupid killing the Shelter just when you can choose between tons of cool bands touring Europe (much more bands avaliable than in 2016)

 

Edited by johnybegood
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Just now, lighthouse said:

If Sum 41 is the kind of rock name they're aiming at, then why even bother.

The bands you mention only tor for nostalgic reasons. Maybe that's the problem. 

There are thousand of nostalgic people that buy tickets for Brakrock or for Lokerse punk day. And these oldies spend more money in the bars that young people drinking in the camping.

I don’t like Sum 41, but they are big enough to get a slot in Werchter Main Stage.

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