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Tent tax - good idea?


oneeye
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The logistics of this seem quite challenging, but here's a go at it.

Every ticket sold comes with a tent pass. This is in essence a wristband for your tent, along with a cable tie. The tent pass has a unique barcode that is registered to the ticket-holder.

When the tent is pitched, a tent pass must be attached to it and in a visible location. Any tent without a pass will be removed, just as any punter without a wristband is ejected. The tent patrol crew would also have a reader that logs the tents that are pitched with a pass and records the geolocation.

At the festival's end, any tents left behind which still have the tag attached would be attributable to a punter who bought a ticket. This could either result in a ban from coming again, or some kind of deposit scheme could be implemented.

Any tents without a tag (ie it was removed) could be identified by the clean up crew and the location cross-checked with the log of pitched tents. The culprit could be traced...

I know the loop-hole is if people remove the tag and then move their vacated tent, but I still think that the process would catch a lot of people. I mean, if you're going to move your tent, why not deposit it in the recycling area.

 

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1 hour ago, bombfrog said:

Yes, you pay a deposit per tent to take a tent in and get it back when you leave. I'm not saying it'd be the easiest thing to administer but it's fundamentally a good idea.

I've addressed people still leaving tents above. A. We'd still see a lot fewer tents and B. the deposits they don't get back could go towards carbon offsetting.

It's a bit like the 5p plastic bag tax, people would moan at first and find reasons why it wouldn't work. Plenty of "whataboutism" etc. etc. But in the end it would work in 90% of cases and we'd see much cleaner fields at the end of the festival.

The plastic bag tax is a poor analogy as it's purchased at the till when needed and no refund is necessay. If there's a will a system could be put in place but it would be a balls ache to adminster slowing festival egress. The main problem with it is that it will not change the behaviour of those who treat camping gear as disposable items. Every fest is populated by to a degree my people doing a one off experience and groups who have clubbed together to buy a tent. A tent tax refund will not influence their dumping behaviour. What about the airbeds, roll mats, wellies etc.

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14 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Did they? Maybe most of those specific people took their stuff back with them?

Granted...not all of them...but given the perpetual myth that leaving your tent behind actually benefits others through it's collection and re-use or recycling there will definitely be some who may even argue they were actually inspired by Greta to leave the stuff for this honourable purpose....

....and then there will be some who just didn't give a stuff. 

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This is a bit of a nothing story isn't it?  Not the issue of course, but this individual proposal.

The founder of Clean Up Britain makes a suggestion without specifying many of the practical issues and thus far it seems not a single festival has commented on the viability or not of doing it.

Of course he could have just looked here at the many pages that are generated each year on the challenges of dealing with this issue and suggestions for what has, or has not worked at other festivals.  (And signed up for gold of course whilst here).

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2 hours ago, UEF said:

Don't forget forming a massive CND logo up at the stone circle - before cheering on the leader of the Labour Party with a policy to retain nuclear weaponry (granted, not his policy). 

I have to admit I had no idea the "peace sign"  was originally designed as the logo for CND. I think it's fair to say that it's largely lost that specific meaning and has become a more general symbol for peace.

Even the announcement for the "biggest human peace sign" on the official site made no mention of the CND or nuclear disarmament.

https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/help-create-the-biggest-human-peace-sign-at-glastonbury/

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27 minutes ago, marcoolio said:

I have to admit I had no idea the "peace sign"  was originally designed as the logo for CND. I think it's fair to say that it's largely lost that specific meaning and has become a more general symbol for peace.

Even the announcement for the "biggest human peace sign" on the official site made no mention of the CND or nuclear disarmament.

https://www.glastonburyfestivals.co.uk/help-create-the-biggest-human-peace-sign-at-glastonbury/

I had no idea that people younger than me called it the peace sign ?

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The only ways to stop this is to either stop people bringing their own tents, which isn’t a viable option, no festival is going to provide enough tents without ticket prices going through the roof or make tents worth taking home which means bumping up the cost of tents to buy in the first place. They are just too cheap and seen as a one use item by many. This obviously has issues for people on low incomes particularly but why should everyone pay more for tents just because of the few.

the £25 ‘tent tax’ won’t work, £25 isn’t enough and it’s also completely unworkable, how do you work it for people staying in a friends tent but arriving and leaving separately from them? 

 

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4 hours ago, Hugh Jass said:

We could have it on here:

£5 for every post suggesting a band who are obviously headline material will play elsewhere.

£5 for every post asking if the football/rugby/Love Island will be shown.

£10 per Simpsons gif/meme and/or suspicious dog picture

£20 per mention of Phillipa's van

£30 for the same guy saying outrageous things to troll under different usernames

£50 per Jessie J video (sorry Bamber!) on an completely inappropriate thread.

50p per post from JJ

You could fund the site forever...

Fixed for you - we love Bamber really, just not when it's got nothing even tangentially to do with any of the other posts on the thread.

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1 hour ago, Smeble said:

the £25 ‘tent tax’ won’t work, £25 isn’t enough and it’s also completely unworkable, how do you work it for people staying in a friends tent but arriving and leaving separately from them? 

 

What about this? What about that? What about ignoring all that "what ifs" and trying to solve the problem?

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5 hours ago, maelzoid said:

As good as it was this year at Glastonbury, I think there will be a massive regression as soon as we have a muddy one.

I'm sure you're right.  People are more likely to be bothered when tents are nice and dry rather than sodden and weighing a ton.  Especially if they're trudging back miles to their cars through a quagmire.

 

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I agree that 25 quid is too low.  Clean Britain are using the Polluter Pays Principle but to be effective the cost needs to be punitive. After spunking out a couple of hundred on food and drink over the weekend 25 would seem a reasonable loss to a tired and hungover punter. If you are going to do it do it properly and make it a substantial hit like a 100 or the cost of the tent. 

But that will still penalise those on lower incomes. For me 25 quid is still a hit I would find difficulty to absorb it irrespective of the fact I would get it back. 

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5 minutes ago, Homer said:

What about if your tent is trashed and useless? I've only ever left two in all my years, and that was because they'd been through their natural 'cycle' and were beyond use by that point anyway.

Then you take it home to see if it can be repaired or dispose of it. A lot of the parts are recyclable or reusable as spares for another tent, and there may well be charities in your area that will take knackered tents and make them usable enough for homeless sleepers, or at least want the spares.

If it stays on site we know it goes to landfill. Taking it home at least minimises the impact.

Not had it with a tent, but I have taken home broke camping chairs and deflated airbeds that could have just been chucked, so I do practice what I preach ;)

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There were a couple of girls camped next to us who were struggling to put up a tent borrowed from friends .... im amazed if they remained friends after seeing the condition of the thing they were trying to put up ... one pole almost in 2 pieces and the bits at the bottom of the poles which the peg type things were solid with mud,  anyway after a bit of help with some duct tape and some digging out of the mud it became a useable tent once again ... and they took it home with them more importantly :) 

and to add ... last year I brought a new tent .... my dad is quite happily making use of my old one 

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Well Glastonbury has seen a marked improvement in this sort of thing in recent years - not just tent leaving/litter but pissing on the land, plastic ban etc so other festivals should try and implement that approach and see if it improves. 

Hiking prices will just justify to some people that they can do as they please as theyve paid the extra expense. Your also pubishing those that do clean up after themselves for others being dicks. 

The positives is it might make gettibg tickets easier if prices hike as itll push some people ovee the edge I guess. 

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18 minutes ago, Benja100 said:

Any of the schemes mentioned involving sophisticated technological solutions with bar-coding, geolocation, extra camp crews to police, and administer it, would cost a fortune, be unworkable, be overly onerous on the festival and attendees.

All of which could have been said about their efforts to stop touting.

 

19 minutes ago, Benja100 said:

Even if it was possible it could be very easily bypassed by simply moving the tent a few meters.

Not sure I understand. If you don't take your tent to the gate you don't get your deposit back. How would moving it help?

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i am amazed that GF havent set up an on site Worthy View yet. It seems the next logical step.

If the first sale was coach + pre-erected Pennards they would sell out in no time.*

 

 

* this bullshit idea is bought to you by a caravan dwelling East CV'er :ph34r:

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I attend the reading council & festival republic post festival meeting in December.  Any proposed schemes that would cause tents to be dumped outside the festival and all over the town/countryside have been rejected.

Education and guilt re: other plastics are the most effective solutions. Won't catch all but as we've seen at gf it works well enough.

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