Glastonbury leads the way on rubbish

[Crazyfool01]

2 hours ago, uscore said:

My controversial? opinion is that in a way, I'm less bothered about people abandoning cheap, destroyed camping gear, than I am about the general level of littering you get all weekend at festivals.  When by headliner time, the pyramid stage field is several layers deep of discarded cans, paper cups and other assorted garbage, you know the problem isn't one or two people being a bit lazy - but the majority.  This disappoints me more than a few hungover kids unwilling to packdown and carry cheap broken tents several miles to their car.

did you go in June this year ? did you see a difference ... I would question the majority bit .... The whole lot bothers me ... campsites and stages .

[uscore]

2 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

did you go in June this year ? did you see a difference ... I would question the majority bit .... The whole lot bothers me ... campsites and stages .

Yeah, I was there.  And yeah, the whole thing bothers me too.

I think generally the campsites were a bit better than in previous years, although maybe the good weather helped.

But Glastonbury's a nightmare for carrying stuff from the car to the carpark or bus station.  I'd never leave my campsite in a mess, but I can see why people do. Carrying muddy or broken stuff miles and miles when you are a bit broken yourself, is a lot of effort for stuff that is often so cheap it could be viewed as disposable. I'm in no way condoning it; but I can recognise the temptation.

Dropping beer cans and food plates in the field where you are standing annoys me more, because it's barely any effort to carry them to a bin, or put them in a bag to carry to the bin when the band is over.

 

 

[Crazyfool01]

1 minute ago, uscore said:

Dropping beer cans and food plates in the field where you are standing annoys me more, because it's barely any effort to carry them to a bin, or put them in a bag to carry to the bin when the band is over.

I thought this was significantly better this year .... and saw many people doing this with handfuls of them ... maybe just my experience though 

[clarkete]

55 minutes ago, crazyfool1 said:

I thought this was significantly better this year .... and saw many people doing this with handfuls of them ... maybe just my experience though 

No, I certainly saw others doing it.

[Garrett_Salas]

1 hour ago, uscore said:

Thanks for the lovely way you open every argument x

 

If you want to split hairs, I never mentioned anything about "perfectly good tents".

He's right though, tbh the litter is a bit of a red herring in the environment debate. Whether someone puts their own cup in the bin or it's done by litter pickers later doesn't really matter. 

EDIT: Clarify - by litter i mean whether people put it in the bin or not. Obv. reducing the level of waste by re-usable cups etc. is still important

Edited September 3, 2019 by Garrett_Salas

[uscore]

8 minutes ago, Garrett_Salas said:

He's right though, tbh the litter is a bit of a red herring in the environment debate. Whether someone puts their own cup in the bin or it's done by litter pickers later doesn't really matter. 

EDIT: Clarify - by litter i mean whether people put it in the bin or not. Obv. reducing the level of waste by re-usable cups etc. is still important

You've assumed I was arguing for environmental reasons though.  You've changed the scope of my point.  I was just simply pointing what annoys me more, and the answer is that, for me, it's the laziness of people to keep the place tidy, when it would be so easy to do it.  I made no claims as to which had a bigger environmental impact.

[uscore]

Should add that I get that this whole thread is about rubbish and the environment, so I can see why my comment was taken like that.

But I think the two things are related.  If people are so bad at keeping their immediate environment so untidy, no wonder so many people don't care about leaving things behind that effect the environment in ways they can't directly see.

Edited September 3, 2019 by uscore

[guypjfreak]

3 hours ago, uscore said:

Should add that I get that this whole thread is about rubbish and the environment, so I can see why my comment was taken like that.

But I think the two things are related.  If people are so bad at keeping their immediate environment so untidy, no wonder so many people don't care about leaving things behind that effect the environment in ways they can't directly see.

I tend to agree old son.. When you walk through the camp sites and see the state of different camps you could hazard a guess about which camp is going to take there stuff home and those who are just going to get up a leave leaving all their shit behind.. 

[Jay Pee]

I only ever go on the train so am limited to what I can carry kit wise which I think is a big factor in leave no trace and absolutely despise with a passion any sort of luggage with wheels.  I find myself scowling at trolleys laden with more kit than I own in my house as there is a fair chance some of that won’t be going back the same way the following Monday.

if people took less stuff with them, it is easier to remove at the end of the festival and leave no trace isn’t it? I just don’t get the amount of gear deemed appropriate for a few days in a field.

its easy to spend a week in a tent with a 40 litre rucksack of possessions and not go wanting.

I accept that no small amount of this comes from conditioning and practice.  A long time in the Armed Forces means that looking after my kit is paramount as is a tidy camp. I couldn’t do it any other way.  Although I draw the line at shitting In a carrier bags and bringing that home as In the past (some things are best left in past life). At other festivals , when with wife and vehicle, we even take our empty cans and bottles home for our own recycling bins.

I’m rambling. Point is.. take less gear with you. And then if the weather is shite you  don’t have to go through the temptation of ditching stuff you can’t be arsed carrying when hanging out of your arse on Monday morning.

 

Edited September 3, 2019 by Jay Pee

[Crazyfool01]

27 minutes ago, Jay Pee said:

I only ever go on the train so am limited to what I can carry kit wise which I think is a big factor in leave no trace and absolutely despise with a passion any sort of luggage with wheels.  I find myself scowling at trolleys laden with more kit than I own in my house as there is a fair chance some of that won’t be going back the same way the following Monday.

if people took less stuff with them, it is easier to remove at the end of the festival and leave no trace isn’t it? I just don’t get the amount of gear deemed appropriate for a few days in a field.

its easy to spend a week in a tent with a 40 litre rucksack of possessions and not go wanting.

I accept that no small amount of this comes from conditioning and practice.  A long time in the Armed Forces means that looking after my kit is paramount as is a tidy camp. I couldn’t do it any other way.  Although I draw the line at shitting In a carrier bags and bringing that home as In the past (some things are best left in past life). At other festivals , when with wife and vehicle, we even take our empty cans and bottles home for our own recycling bins.

I’m rambling. Point is.. take less gear with you. And then if the weather is shite you  don’t have to go through the temptation of ditching stuff you can’t be arsed carrying when hanging out of your arse on Monday morning.

 

I do 2 trips and have no inclination to ditch anything .... maybe its just an upbringing thing ? 

[Avalon_Fields]

7 hours ago, Garrett_Salas said:

He's right though, tbh the litter is a bit of a red herring in the environment debate. Whether someone puts their own cup in the bin or it's done by litter pickers later doesn't really matter. 

EDIT: Clarify - by litter i mean whether people put it in the bin or not. Obv. reducing the level of waste by re-usable cups etc. is still important

That’s debatable, vast quantities of litter around the world is temporary and will be removed at some stage, but the more litter that’s around the more likely others will litter, so it is important, and important as a statement. If it’s seen as acceptable at Glastonbury as a noticeably green place then people will take even less care elsewhere, it seems bizarre to think people only drop litter at festivals because it will be cleaned up, but wouldn’t do elsewhere. I do some work on a nature reserve and plenty of people drop litter there too, not as bad as Glastonbury of course. However, I’m hopeful we will make steady progress...

[Make Mondays Better]

21 hours ago, Jay Pee said:

I only ever go on the train so am limited to what I can carry kit wise which I think is a big factor in leave no trace and absolutely despise with a passion any sort of luggage with wheels.  I find myself scowling at trolleys laden with more kit than I own in my house as there is a fair chance some of that won’t be going back the same way the following Monday.

if people took less stuff with them, it is easier to remove at the end of the festival and leave no trace isn’t it? I just don’t get the amount of gear deemed appropriate for a few days in a field.

its easy to spend a week in a tent with a 40 litre rucksack of possessions and not go wanting.

I accept that no small amount of this comes from conditioning and practice.  A long time in the Armed Forces means that looking after my kit is paramount as is a tidy camp. I couldn’t do it any other way.  Although I draw the line at shitting In a carrier bags and bringing that home as In the past (some things are best left in past life). At other festivals , when with wife and vehicle, we even take our empty cans and bottles home for our own recycling bins.

I’m rambling. Point is.. take less gear with you. And then if the weather is shite you  don’t have to go through the temptation of ditching stuff you can’t be arsed carrying when hanging out of your arse on Monday morning.

 

Maybe that is part of the problem at Reading, which has a strong teenage attendance, it's their first festival and they didn't know what to bring so brought way too much. They got all that stuff there in the first place though, and it's a smaller site and pancake flat, so they get less sympathy on the hills front.

Maybe the festival should send them a packet of information on what stuff really isn't worth bringing, and a reminder that all that cheap stuff is only cheap because it's made in Chinese sweatshops, then shipped halfway round the world for them to use for all of 5 minutes before dumping. Could also remind them Reading has a fairly big homeless population and people using food banks, their leftover food could really help people in need. I guess it's hard to talk about these things without bringing the mood down though, and it's supposed to be a weekend of not worrying/caring about anything.

[Jay Pee]

We will get better as a society. I hope we will.

if I had left a tent somewhere in the 80s, my brother and father would have been tossing a coin over who was going to give me a clip round the ears.

Tents used to be an investment and something you dried out and packed away somewhere dry at the end of the summer.  You could only buy them in a few specialist shops and mil surplus shops.  

We have created a bit of a monster unfortunately.  Affordability and throw away attitudes.

there is something else at play also. Can they not make those infernal pop up tents a bit easier to get back in the bag? They are an absolute shit and must piss people off to the point of CBA.

[Make Mondays Better]

1 hour ago, Jay Pee said:

We will get better as a society. I hope we will.

if I had left a tent somewhere in the 80s, my brother and father would have been tossing a coin over who was going to give me a clip round the ears.

Tents used to be an investment and something you dried out and packed away somewhere dry at the end of the summer.  You could only buy them in a few specialist shops and mil surplus shops.  

We have created a bit of a monster unfortunately.  Affordability and throw away attitudes.

there is something else at play also. Can they not make those infernal pop up tents a bit easier to get back in the bag? They are an absolute shit and must piss people off to the point of CBA.

It's not surprising they focus on the 'pop-up' aspect in the name and not on the wrestling-it-back-down-and-hoping-it-doesn't-pop-back-up-and-smack-you-in-the-face aspect, lol.

[stuartbert two hats]

On 9/3/2019 at 12:30 PM, uscore said:

Thanks for the lovely way you open every argument x

 

If you want to split hairs, I never mentioned anything about "perfectly good tents".

Most of the tents abandoned are perfectly good, as long as they've not been vandalized. I really don't share your view on this. Trashing and/or leaving good tents bothers me more than litter.

[guypjfreak]

1 hour ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Most of the tents abandoned are perfectly good, as long as they've not been vandalized. I really don't share your view on this. Trashing and/or leaving good tents bothers me more than litter.

Well it wasn't so many years ago that for some unknown reason to me they slashed the bloody tents BEFORE they left them...... That I never could understand.. 

I first went with a ruck sack.. Then we were organised and had one 4 man.... Old style.... Ridge tent for about 10+ of us.. Then we collected tents as many as we could.. Until one year my tent was a 20 foot two room with a middle... Luxury lol and still it came home along with others but I never got the LET'S CUT THE TENT and leave it so even us and people like us along with the travellers who used to be come in and pick through the stuff couldn't use them... 

I do remember one year actually looking for ripped or cut tents so we could and did use them as flags etc for another festival.. 

I saw on TV a lady selling coats made from left over tents... Only thing that I didn't understand was when you touch the inside of a tent the rain comes in...... Ummmmmm

[uscore]

9 hours ago, stuartbert two hats said:

Most of the tents abandoned are perfectly good, as long as they've not been vandalized. I really don't share your view on this. Trashing and/or leaving good tents bothers me more than litter.

Fair enough. We're not all the same.  I hate people leaving perfectly good stuff too.  Although I know plenty of people who go around tatting the good tents and equipment left behind, so I reckon a lot of that ends up being reused. 

One of the reasons I hate the littering is the scale of it; it's the rivers of discarded crap in the stage fields at the end of the night that you have to wade through that shows it's not one or two people but loads and loads (most people?).

Actually I've thought of something that annoys me more than litter.  It's people who take a toilet tent and then leave the tent and the bucket of shit behind for someone else to deal with.

[DeanoL]

Could you come at this from the angle of making the trek back to the car easier? Did car the first time this year, after 12 years on the coach - ended up parked in the furthest car park out on the west side. Definitely bringing a trolly next year! Took everything back, but yeah, I can see why people do it - would a luggage shuttle running between the site and the far car parks help at all?

[stuie]

I hope Glastonbury can implement using reusable deposit cups at all bars next year as it was only crew bars this year.

Glastonbury aren't leading the way on this.  Sure, it's bigger so the logistics are more complicated but other festivals are using 100% reusable cups now.

 

[Avalon_Fields]

3 minutes ago, stuie said:

I hope Glastonbury can implement using reusable deposit cups at all bars next year as it was only crew bars this year.

Glastonbury aren't leading the way on this.  Sure, it's bigger so the logistics are more complicated but other festivals are using 100% reusable cups now.

 

I'll be surprised and disappointed if they don't. There has to be further progress and this is the obvious step.

[Bennykill]

tents and camping equipment is additional waste,  they are supposed to leave the farm. rubbish on the floor is expected rubbish just in the wrong place,  it was never going to be taken home and when it is picked up by the hard working cleaners it is in the same place it would have been if the inconsiderate twat hadn't dropped it.  both types of littering suck but tents and camping equipment is far more wasteful and inconsiderate

[Make Mondays Better]

2 hours ago, DeanoL said:

Could you come at this from the angle of making the trek back to the car easier? Did car the first time this year, after 12 years on the coach - ended up parked in the furthest car park out on the west side. Definitely bringing a trolly next year! Took everything back, but yeah, I can see why people do it - would a luggage shuttle running between the site and the far car parks help at all?

It's a good idea, and there's different options for what sort of vehicle to use. Actual buses might be a bit big and awkward - there is a danger of running over people exiting on foot. I think they could use those cheesy land trains you get in tourist traps, or look at something similar to how airlines deal with luggage (those luggage buggies pulled by a quad bike or something). 

As for the trolleys, I think a system like Boris Bikes could work, where you rent a trolley between the campsite and transport links (it'd have to be monetised or people would just dump or nick the trolleys).

[Crazyfool01]

This transportation idea of luggage from car parks just encourages people to bring more and more though and thats not the answer .. the logistics would be a nightmare too ... you would have to have a drop off point for luggage and then a collection point ... and the numbers would be ridiculous ....  its simple dont bring it if you cant carry it both ways ... you should be Alcohol free (in carrying terms ) on the way out aswell so there is no excuse ... if its difficult a quick trip to the car to take some back on the sunday isn't hard for those that like a few more creature comforts ... get it in ... take it out 

[DeanoL]

1 hour ago, Bennykill said:

tents and camping equipment is additional waste,  they are supposed to leave the farm. rubbish on the floor is expected rubbish just in the wrong place,

Did actually do a small festival this year that provided bin bags, and somewhere to drop them off at the end of the festival, but also nicely asked "if it's not too much trouble, could you also take it home with you and dispose of it there. it really helps, thanks"

2 hours ago, stuie said:

I hope Glastonbury can implement using reusable deposit cups at all bars next year as it was only crew bars this year.

Glastonbury aren't leading the way on this.  Sure, it's bigger so the logistics are more complicated but other festivals are using 100% reusable cups now.

I think the problem is the scale of it. No way to wash that many cups on site, so they would have to be driven out, cleaned, and driven back in again. I'm not sure how much greener that actually is than paper cups. 

We're currently in the middle of an obsession with eliminating plastic - which is good most of the time, but in some cases it's not actually the best environmental option - it just buys people the best publicity.

[stuie]

37 minutes ago, DeanoL said:

I think the problem is the scale of it. No way to wash that many cups on site, so they would have to be driven out, cleaned, and driven back in again. I'm not sure how much greener that actually is than paper cups. 

We're currently in the middle of an obsession with eliminating plastic - which is good most of the time, but in some cases it's not actually the best environmental option - it just buys people the best publicity.

I'm not sure about that... this is the festival with the most on site resources of them all.  They process all of their own waste and recycling on site and have purpose built reservoirs etc. so I can't see why there couldn't be a cup washing solution on site.