The future of John Peel

[stuartbert two hats]

6 hours ago, bombfrog said:

The definition is sort of important when it's the difference between somebody being a criminal or not. 

 

12 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

He's dead mate.

My point being, the criminality is pretty much irrelevant now. The morality however, that's still worth discussion.  Criminality is just a less ambiguous proxy for morality anyway. As a society, is morality we should care about, but criminality is easier to agree+act upon.

Edited July 12, 2019 by stuartbert two hats

[Amy Lawn]

9 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

all you're giving is a sense of your own intellectual inabilities.

By all means, enjoy your "I'm smart and everybody else is dumb" pee pee dance, I know you like those. But I was actually talking about the newspaper article where he went all "back in the 70s I got suck off by pure 13 year old bitches, ladsladslads".

For the record, while I don't doubt that the law is cool and right in every scenario, I find something creepy about a grown man marrying 15 year old. Just my opinion like.

Please continue with your I'VE OWNED YOU CUCKS WITH MY FACTS AND LOGIC spree. Long may you run.

[eFestivals]

10 hours ago, Rose-Colored Boy said:

Nobody is claiming he was as bad as Saville, there’s no publically-available evidence he was anything like as prolific or manipulative as that. The question is whether there should be a major stage named in tribute to him at the UK’s most progressive festival, and debating the terminology is kind of missing the point a bit ...

well, if you take the revisionist angle and think a tent named after him is a bad thing ...

What about the Eavis's lauding a self-professed 'predatory' paedophile, and welcoming that self-professed 'predatory' paedophile each year into the space they've created which includes lots of children? 

Do you have your noose ready to string the Eavii up for that?  

 

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

Just my opinion like.

an opinion based on today's standards and not the standards of that time. 

So a shit opinion for measuring the 'bad' in his actions.

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

Please continue with your I'VE OWNED YOU CUCKS WITH MY FACTS AND LOGIC spree. Long may you run.

then follow your impecable logic thru to its conclusions and stop going to a festival run by people who laud(ed) that paedo, then.  

Or is that too much of your fantastic logic? 

[Amy Lawn]

Whilst I criticise some aspects of the festival, I still attend it. Maybe this means the true pedo here is in fact me.

[Mr.Tease]

43 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

so what you're saying is millions of marriages of the past - before marriage age changed - are all predatory abuse, no matter what the (now-adult) women involved might think.

And that the UK govt authorises allows and endorses predatory abuse by allowing schoolchildren to marry.

I'd say your version is a crock of shit because you are unable to think outside of today.

 

did he? Or did you make that part up.

(I've no idea, but nothing I've ever see has even hinted that's what went on)

 

Oh dear. When you're reducing to comments like this it really is pathetic.

No one is arguing with today's definitions for today.

People are pointing out that culture - including the culture of abuse as well as the culture of normal relationships - was entirely different in a time of different normals and rights.

I think we're at cross purposes here- I and other people weren't talking about his marriage, we were discussing an earlier post about him allegedly having regular sex acts with various child fans, one of which was aged 13 and whether that constituted sexually Predatorial behaviour-- full apologies if the article about him is/was a load of bollocks, but the argument shifted onto how Predatorial behaviour is defined, which was referring to that not his marriage in texas. 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

27 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

well, if you take the revisionist angle and think a tent named after him is a bad thing ...

What about the Eavis's lauding a self-professed 'predatory' paedophile, and welcoming that self-professed 'predatory' paedophile each year into the space they've created which includes lots of children? 

Do you have your noose ready to string the Eavii up for that?  

 

Who’s this, Basil Brush?

[Amy Lawn]

Enjoying the "standards of the day were the standards of the day and therefore definitely right" angle. All that racism, sexism, homophobia, weird guys in their mid 20s marrying girls who were 15 so they could have a wife who was their subordinate and easy to push around and couldn't scare them by having prior sexual experience, and those baaaaad princess Di haircuts that were all the rage for a while; those things were fine. Yup.

Edited July 12, 2019 by GETOFFAMYLAWN

[eFestivals]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Tease said:

I think we're at cross purposes here- I and other people weren't talking about his marriage, we were discussing an earlier post about him allegedly having regular sex acts with various child fans, one of which was aged 13 and whether that constituted sexually Predatorial behaviour-- full apologies if the article about him is/was a load of bollocks, but the argument shifted onto how Predatorial behaviour is defined, which was referring to that not his marriage in texas. 

My take is that as far as Peel was concerned: if a female is freely offering to act like an adult she's an adult (and the age is immaterial).

He was a young guy, happy to get his rocks off. I'm guessing he didn't feel the need to take responsibility for what others were choosing to do.

In today's terms, he'd be absolutely legally obliged to take that responsibility for others - but that's a modern concept that didn't really exist back then. I don't really think it's a surprise that it wouldn't have crossed his mind, because it wasn't how people thought back then.

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

Enjoying the "standards of the day were the standards of the day and therefore definitely right" angle.

Oh look, you've made something up all by yourself.
 

1 minute ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

All that racism, sexism, homophobia, weird guys in their mid 20s marrying girls who were 15 so they could have a wife who was their subordinate and easy to push around and couldn't scare them by having prior sexual experience, and those baaaaad princess Di haircuts that were all the rage for a while; those things were fine. Yup.

if you think so.

I've not seen anyone else thinking what you're thinking.

[eFestivals]

26 minutes ago, GETOFFAMYLAWN said:

Whilst I criticise some aspects of the festival, I still attend it. Maybe this means the true pedo here is in fact me.

I see, so you're declining to change your actions because of the actions of others.

Which is what Peel was doing.

Alright John?

[Amy Lawn]

3 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

I see, so you're declining to change your actions because of the actions of others.

Which is what Peel was doing.

Alright John?

??? You win! 

[Rose-Colored Boy]

jesus christ

[stuartbert two hats]

14 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

My take is that as far as Peel was concerned: if a female is freely offering to act like an adult she's an adult (and the age is immaterial).

He was a young guy, happy to get his rocks off. I'm guessing he didn't feel the need to take responsibility for what others were choosing to do.

In today's terms, he'd be absolutely legally obliged to take that responsibility for others - but that's a modern concept that didn't really exist back then. I don't really think it's a surprise that it wouldn't have crossed his mind, because it wasn't how people thought back then.

I wasn't about back then, but I find it hard to believe that nobody gave a shit about blokes in their 20s getting blowjobs off 13 yr olds.  Especially given what happened to Jerry Lee Lewis after he openly had a relationship with a girl (admittedly his cousin) of that age.

[The Nal]

7 hours ago, Mark E. Spliff said:

Ask yourself why you posted the above.  Why are you expressing outrage that someone has pointed out something that is factually incorrect - i.e. the claim that John Peel was a paedophile?  It looks a bit like the paranoid need to be seen publicly denouncing anyone who's pussy-footing around with facts and rationality when there are pitchforks to be waved.  Witch-hunt mentality.

I actually hate that self righteous public Im holier than thou thing but in this case, if a 30 year old man is attracted to girls who are clearly just over the legal limit. Young teenagers. A paedophile is someone who is attracted to children. Peels "Of course, I never asked for ID" could mean he was a paedo. Ie he didnt want to know the answer. Or it could've just been the bravado of the time but its hardly a witch hunt. The guy was 40 when he was coming out with these quotes. 

The idea of being comfortable expressing public desire about girls that young is wrong. But they were the times.

Dean Martin used to do shtick like "Nothing could be finer than be shacked up with a minor" to huge laughs. 

And lets not get started on Jimmy "the younger the better" Page etc. I have a new vinyl setup and plan on blaring Physical Graffiti today. 

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, stuartbert two hats said:

I wasn't about back then, but I find it hard to believe that nobody gave a shit about blokes in their 20s getting blowjobs off 13 yr olds.  Especially given what happened to Jerry Lee Lewis after he openly had a relationship with a girl (admittedly his cousin) of that age.

the fact that Jerry Lee Lewis *openly* had that relationship only proves the very different norms back then.

Yes, some people would have given a shit but not as they do today. Different times, different attitudes.

[eFestivals]

3 minutes ago, The Nal said:

I actually hate that self righteous public Im holier than thou thing but in this case, if a 30 year old man is attracted to girls who are clearly just over the legal limit. Young teenagers. A paedophile is someone who is attracted to children. Peels "Of course, I never asked for ID" could mean he was a paedo. Ie he didnt want to know the answer. Or it could've just been the bravado of the time but its hardly a witch hunt. The guy was 40 when he was coming out with these quotes. 

The idea of being comfortable expressing public desire about girls that young is wrong. But they were the times.

Dean Martin used to do shtick like "Nothing could be finer than be shacked up with a minor" to huge laughs. 

And lets not get started on Jimmy "the younger the better" Page etc. I have a new vinyl setup and plan on blaring Physical Graffiti today. 

just pointing out: Peel was married at 25, and back in the UK (still with his wife) by the time he was 29.

So it's probably the case that any sex with 13 year olds was when he was 25 or younger.

[BluePaul]

Well this thread wandered off in a direction I wasn't expecting...

[stuartbert two hats]

4 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

the fact that Jerry Lee Lewis *openly* had that relationship only proves the very different norms back then.

Yes, some people would have given a shit but not as they do today. Different times, different attitudes.

That's because he's from a weird part of America, he massively misjudged what was acceptable and the civilised world vilified him.

Times and attitudes have changed, it's true. But let's not overstate things. Thirteen is and was young.

Since we're on the subject of #metoo, the "it was acceptable in the nineties" line what trotted out then, and as someone who can remember the nineties, a lot of stuff that was excuses as "just what you did back then" was absolutely, certainly not what any decent person did without shame.

[The Nal]

10 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

just pointing out: Peel was married at 25, and back in the UK (still with his wife) by the time he was 29.

So it's probably the case that any sex with 13 year olds was when he was 25 or younger.

Indeed but they broke up very quickly and some of these allegations - like knocking up a 15 year old - were when he was 30 and living in the UK. 

Anyway, different times and all that. As @stuartbert two hats says. Even the 90s had a culture that looks toxic nowadays. "Get your tits out for the lads". 

[eFestivals]

2 minutes ago, stuartbert two hats said:

That's because he's from a weird part of America, he massively misjudged what was acceptable and the civilised world vilified him.

Times and attitudes have changed, it's true. But let's not overstate things. Thirteen is and was young.

Since we're on the subject of #metoo, the "it was acceptable in the nineties" line what trotted out then, and as someone who can remember the nineties, a lot of stuff that was excuses as "just what you did back then" was absolutely, certainly not what any decent person did without shame.

I'd say that attitudes changes about sex with young people around 1980.

Remember, until around that time the National Council For Civil Liberties had a formal relationship with PIE (Paedophile Information Exchange), The Times took adverts from PIE, etc. Today, some of these people sit on Labour's benches.

There was an age of consent but it wasn't illegal for a teacher to have sex with a 16 year old pupil. (as i mentioned, I knew of a teacher who'd got an underage pupil pregnant, who didn't lose his job).

I think that teacher one is a good demonstration about how what a child/young adult chose to do wasn't regarded as the adult's responsibility. It was only rape if the adult forced themself on the female.

[Rose-Colored Boy]

7 minutes ago, The Nal said:

Indeed but they broke up very quickly and some of these allegations - like knocking up a 15 year old - were when he was 30 and living in the UK. 

Anyway, different times and all that. As @stuartbert two hats says. Even the 90s had a culture that looks toxic nowadays. "Get your tits out for the lads". 

One of many reasons it’s a relief that the career of Catfish and the Bottlemen appears to have flatlined. Fingers crossed they’re the last act where the music press is willing to overlook that kind of shithousery.

[The Nal]

Anyway Happy Friday everyone!

 

[BluePaul]

Can I raise a practical question at this point?  Are we gonna have screens outside the tent next year?