2019: Plethora of acts miming/ performing to backing tracks

[lukethekid]

19 minutes ago, Mrbish82 said:

I only had a quick look at JJ on iPlayer, but from what I saw, it looked like she was actually singing but the video screens we're delayed by half a second which would make it seem completely out of sync to anyone watching them live. 

Having said that, the moment I see a performer with energetic dance routines and a headset mic, I kind of expect them to be miming ?

Sorry to be the bellend but if Janet Jackson wasn’t miming then neither were Milli Vanilli

[MEGATRONICMEATWAGON]

6 hours ago, dentalplan said:

I don't believe Miley was miming. Her voice is hench.

For the other two, you can have a free shrug from me. People go to see them for the spectacle; there's a stage full of props and dancers so it's not like they're presenting themselves as a technical masterclass, and I would be surprised if people are going to see them with that as their priority either.

Yeh, you're probably right actually about Miley. And I shall take your free shrugs and pass them on, totally agree about the spectacle side, I def went to see Katy Perry for the confetti n lights etc, a singalong, not because I thought she was going to wow me in any other way. Not sure if anyone else was accused of miming apart from JJ tho

[jparx]

Billie Eilish wasn't mining. She had a backing track, but she wasn't mining at all. Same with Miley.

If the show is good, who cares? Chems have been rocking up with laptops for years now and they always smash it.

[thewayiam]

20 hours ago, Homer said:

Nope - it's not the V Festival. Fatboy on the Other is thankfully as close as we'll ever get!

Other is where they should book him next time as a sub, put him in a slot that would be similar to Creamfields as Glasto does have a huge dance following, Glade was silly. Glasto's big downfall at the minute probably is booking too many acts on smaller stages.

[K2SO]

17 hours ago, lukethekid said:

Sorry to be the bellend but if Janet Jackson wasn’t miming then neither were Milli Vanilli

We were close enough to watch her with our own eyes, and she was definitely miming! She sang one song live, which was the one she did when she bought a golden mic out... And I mean surely that's confirmation enough that she was miming, that she had an extra mic?

[Pipine]

Christine and the queen's definitely doesn't mime, she has an incredible voice and uses it to full effect, it's just the backing vocals that aren't live.   Ditto with Miley.  I didn't think Kylie was miming either.. but her voice isn't as strong as Chris or Mileys, sometimes she was hard to hear in the BBC coverage 

[PFM]

WTF does someone like Mr. G. Ezra need to mime FFS?

[stuartbert two hats]

On 7/7/2019 at 8:47 PM, Pipine said:

Christine and the queen's definitely doesn't mime, she has an incredible voice and uses it to full effect, it's just the backing vocals that aren't live.   Ditto with Miley.  I didn't think Kylie was miming either.. but her voice isn't as strong as Chris or Mileys, sometimes she was hard to hear in the BBC coverage 

Kylie was singing live, but she had her own voice on the backing track, even on songs where she didn't sing backing vocals on the original - like Especially For You. So it's kind of a halfway house between full on miming and a backing track for someone like Lizzo where using the backing track is arguably the "authentic" way to do things, since the backing for her last record was made in a computer.

[MrZigster]

Interesting thread. I've often posted here before about the difference between just pressing play and actually making/performing music.

I'm debating with myself over what is a backing track and what is a gadget (or many gadgets) full of preprogrammed sequences that the artist(s) can trigger at appropriate moments.

Someone mentioned Slowthai earlier. I was under the impression that his backing crew were using pretty much the latter. They seemed to be able to stop things when they needed to (and then start up again).

Let's look at a band like Rush. I watched their live shows evolve over the years (forty years). I seem to remember they came to a policy that it's all OK as long as someone on stage is triggering the sequence somewhere somehow. So that may mean that the drummer just has to hit one pad to trigger a whole three minute jazz section that they couldn't do live as a three piece. Is that cheating? And there's no way that a three piece band could do that many vocal harmonies live (I am aware of vocal harmony/chorus pedals).

But at least Geddy always really sang into said pedals! Right?

Do you remember when Queen and Boston albums used to proudly proclaim on their sleevenotes "No Synthezisers"? Queen certainly changed their tune.

I'm sure I read in some guitar magazine somewhere that the likes of Metallica and U2 have people under the stage stomping on things at the right time because they can't be arsed with guitar pedals? Cheating?

I had a very early sampling/sequencer set up and the stick I used to get from "proper" musicians about how it was somehow cheating...

Anyway. Point is that there's possibly no way that us music and festival fans opinions are going to change the behemoth that is the music/music tech industry. It's slid too far now. You want lots of nine piece Earth, Wind & Fire type of live musicians acts? Nah. Sorry mate. Costs too much. Takes too long for mike checks etc.. We can stick that in a box these days. Here's a ton of DJs (people with USB sticks) and a few people dancing and pretending to actually play things.

 

[Yokel Again]

Miming the vocals is unforgivable in my opinion.

The backing tracks - I can see why it's done, particularly due to the amount of production needed with big shows / screens / and the production that goes in to big shows.

However, I'm not quite sure where the line should be drawn...

Lizzo - AMAZING but used backing track. CATQ - AMAZING, but elements on a backing track (I think it was backing vox on a track and presumably the drummer playing with a click track matched up). 

I'm really into the musicianship side of things, so am usually watching the band as much as a vocalist to see what they are doing. But you usually only get both RIGHT up the top of the bill. i.e. the full production with a shit-hot band to match it.

[DeanoL]

These things are still performances though. I think it's almost the wrong question. In some cases I would question if they're actually musicians. But are they performers and hence do they belong at the festival? Yes. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Lizzo was live playing the flute.

[WS_Jack_III]

We already covered the whole DJ/producer live or not thing in the Chems thread. It seems to come up a lot on here.

As someone who makes electronic music and performs it live, I always like to try and defend these acts. 

I brought up the fact that Disclosure go out of their way to really make sure you realise they are actually doing stuff up there. They don't really need to do all this but I think they were worried about the exact comments we've seen in this thread. Each act is different and I've not seen an awful lot from Chems regarding this. Paul from Orbital has become more open to showing his setup, in recent years.

I like to term my live set as "Live Sequenced" because it is my tracks cut up in sequence (intro, middle & end usually but can have break downs and such too), some loop round until I move it on, some automatically follow on and I always transition from one track to the next. 

The main things i'm doing "live" is messing with my bass synth's parameters (on some tracks) messing with the delay on vocals/bass/overall track, adding reverb to snare (in some tracks)and of course, triggering out of loops and transitioning into the next track (check out a recent video of me performing below) but I'm never actually playing an instrument live, it was all done at home or in the studio to make the track though.

I've just started practicing doing some stuff on the fly with my korg volca keys too.

It also takes a shit load of work in the studio to make this all work and quite a bit of practice so it's all good on the night.

The problem we face is people like Deadmau5 coming out and saying "anybody can do this" but people need to learn the difference between some of these acts and what they are actually doing up there.

 

[mcshed]

8 hours ago, MrZigster said:

I'm debating with myself over what is a backing track and what is a gadget (or many gadgets) full of preprogrammed sequences that the artist(s) can trigger at appropriate moments.

Someone mentioned Slowthai earlier. I was under the impression that his backing crew were using pretty much the latter. They seemed to be able to stop things when they needed to (and then start up again).

Would be surprised is slowthai's backing crew or "DJ" as it's often termed where using anything more complicated than a set of "decks" traditionally 2 turntables and a mixer but more recently replaced with digitised versions. Perfectly capable of stopping and starting wherever you want in a track.

That is live hip-hop that is the experience. Expecting something else is rockist nonsense.

[Avalon_Fields]

I’m going to mime my applause from now on. Works both ways. 

[Splonk]

On 7/6/2019 at 2:03 PM, Quark said:

Is that acceptable? To me, absolutely. I want someone like Lizzo or Kylie to be able to interact a bit because they're so damn good at it. That's part of the performance for me.

And it's a festival of contemporary performing arts, so yeah it's in the spirit of the festival. Starting to feel like anyone quoting "spirit of the festival" is shorthand for "stuff I dont like"

Are pop stars now so devoid of talent that they can't actually perform a song live and entertain the crowd at the same time?

Blimey, standards have really fallen.

As for the "spirit of the festival" being shorthand for "stuff I dont like" - well, call me old fashioned, but if I want to see people dancing around to a pre-recorded track, pretending to sing for the TV cameras, I can always tune into Britain's Got Talent.

 

[CaledonianGonzo]

Kylie and Lizzo both sang live and brought the house down, so not really sure who your grievance is with.

[Comfy Bean]

On 7/10/2019 at 12:35 PM, Avalon_Fields said:

I’m going to mime my applause from now on. Works both ways. 

?

[hfuhruhurr]

A while ago I saw the Who and felt sure that for the main set they were miming, for the encore the sound was different and felt live. I asked a mate in the business (works with dave gilmore/Paul mcarney,  been in the business for 50 years). He said they record every show and mix in the best performances live during the current performance,  so if things go tits live, they have the backup playing. So what you're hearing is a mixture. When it goes badly wrong, ie singer no where near the mic, we all notice it.

[MoilyX]

Caught up with the BBC2 highlights show last and it seems Janelle Monae can be added to the miming list.

She was doing dance moves of sorts so not entirely unexpected.  Guess it’s down to whether you prefer watching it as a performance as a whole rather than expect a live vocal at the expense of ‘the show’.

[dentalplan]

3 hours ago, MoilyX said:

Caught up with the BBC2 highlights show last and it seems Janelle Monae can be added to the miming list.

She was doing dance moves of sorts so not entirely unexpected.  Guess it’s down to whether you prefer watching it as a performance as a whole rather than expect a live vocal at the expense of ‘the show’.

Which song did you see this on?

[mashedonmud]

15 hours ago, Splonk said:

Are pop stars now so devoid of talent that they can't actually perform a song live

The majority of 'pop' stars have always been devoid of talent. Tits and bums, photographic face, large muscles and a good impression of being mean and from the street (taught at stage school) is the way to being famous for many. ?

[Quark]

15 hours ago, Splonk said:

Are pop stars now so devoid of talent that they can't actually perform a song live and entertain the crowd at the same time?

Blimey, standards have really fallen.

As for the "spirit of the festival" being shorthand for "stuff I dont like" - well, call me old fashioned, but if I want to see people dancing around to a pre-recorded track, pretending to sing for the TV cameras, I can always tune into Britain's Got Talent.

Can't tell, are you missing the difference between miming and a backing track, or just choosing to ignore it?

If it's the latter then my point on spirit of the festival stands

Edited July 13, 2019 by Quark

[fatyeti24]

7 hours ago, hfuhruhurr said:

A while ago I saw the Who and felt sure that for the main set they were miming, for the encore the sound was different and felt live. I asked a mate in the business (works with dave gilmore/Paul mcarney,  been in the business for 50 years). He said they record every show and mix in the best performances live during the current performance,  so if things go tits live, they have the backup playing. So what you're hearing is a mixture. When it goes badly wrong, ie singer no where near the mic, we all notice it.

This kind of thing is not unusual, so I've heard, with various different methods used to enhance what we're actually hearing.  I wonder if the opinions of those who prefer to see the music performed before them would alter if they knew how much assistance was coming from the Macbook in the sound desk.

[stuartbert two hats]

11 minutes ago, fatyeti24 said:

This kind of thing is not unusual, so I've heard, with various different methods used to enhance what we're actually hearing.  I wonder if the opinions of those who prefer to see the music performed before them would alter if they knew how much assistance was coming from the Macbook in the sound desk.

In what way? I do prefer to see music performed in front of me. And sometimes I'd rather it sounded objectively worse if that means it's genuinely happening in the moment.

Not always, obviously. Lizzo's music was made (very cleverly) on a computer, so to perform that live would be less authentic. But The Who? I'd rather that was 100% live, bum notes and all.