Rory Stewart at Glastonbury

[Homer]

4 hours ago, t0paz said:

I'm no Tory fan but every side should get their turn to speak.

Agreed - I was at a Leftfield Q&A once when someone in the audience tried to challenge Tony Benn on something. He was booed down by the audience before he could get his question out.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Homer

[Spindles]

1 hour ago, UEF said:

The personal allowance has gone up too - from about 6k (Labour) to 12.5k (current)

I never see much comment about how Labour thought it was sensible to tax people on £6k pa on here...

Labour consistently increased the personal allowance throughout their time in power, it nearly doubled during their time in power.

 

I don't see much comment about how Tories thought it was sensible to tax people on £3k pa on here....

[jfaragher]

1 hour ago, bombfrog said:

Why not £15? Why not £20? Why not £50 an hour?

 

 

Trying to reach across the divide here dude...

[frostypaw]

1 hour ago, dentalplan said:

I don’t know about Tories being welcome in any case. Even a hypothetical lefty Tory would still be dismissed as complicit and bad because of the colour of their badge.

That's the trouble isn't it - nobody with a conscience on those topics could wear it. Even when they say the right things they still vote the other way and damn themselves. Our one's terrible for it - can sound quite lovely then just votes with the party.

[bombfrog]

15 minutes ago, jfaragher said:

Trying to reach across the divide here dude...

So £12 is just a "compromise" ? You don't thin that at some point there is an amount that businesses simply couldn't afford to pay if they want to continue to exist?

[Apone]

4 hours ago, Levitz said:

‘Islamophobe Zac Goldsmith’ to give him his full title after the racist campaign he ran for Mayor of London. 

Define Islamophobic? would that be pro female emancipation, pro gay rights, pro animal rights, pro religious freedom, against the death penalty?

[Levitz]

13 minutes ago, Apone said:

Define Islamophobic? would that be pro female emancipation, pro gay rights, pro animal rights, pro religious freedom, against the death penalty?

He ran the racist campaign against a Muslim, Sadiq Khan, who ascribes to all the things you mentioned. 

[Homer]

... and Stewart’s a goner...

[jfaragher]

2 hours ago, bombfrog said:

So £12 is just a "compromise" ? You don't thin that at some point there is an amount that businesses simply couldn't afford to pay if they want to continue to exist?

Of course there is - but I think it's somewhere higher than the current £3.90 - £8.30 an hour and lower than £50. Why should companies who return massive profits to shareholders get away with the state topping up their employees wages?  Why shouldn't people earn enough to have a dignified life?  Why shouldn't we rethink the relationship between corporations and the people who work for them?

[CaledonianGonzo]

3 minutes ago, Homer said:

... and Stewart’s a goner...

It was this thread that did it.

[bombfrog]

2 minutes ago, jfaragher said:

Of course there is - but I think it's somewhere higher than the current £3.90 - £8.30 an hour and lower than £50. Why should companies who return massive profits to shareholders get away with the state topping up their employees wages?  Why shouldn't people earn enough to have a dignified life?  Why shouldn't we rethink the relationship between corporations and the people who work for them?

But the point is that every business is differnet. Some would be able to support a minimum wage of £50 (Facebook for example), some would have to stop trading if the minimum wage was increased to £12. There is no magic price point which is fine for everybody.

[bombfrog]

2 minutes ago, CaledonianGonzo said:

It was this thread that did it.

He was the least shitty shit in a bunch of shits. Doesn't matter though, king of the shits was always going to win it.

[jfaragher]

2 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

But the point is that every business is differnet. Some would be able to support a minimum wage of £50 (Facebook for example), some would have to stop trading if the minimum wage was increased to £12. There is no magic price point which is fine for everybody.

You're right, but on the other hand I strongly believe that if you can't run a business that pays your employees properly, then you need to rethink your business model.

 

[Homer]

Don’t understand what’s got into the Tories. Really thought they all hated Johnson for dividing the party and being opportunistic. Guess they’re getting desperate.

[Crazyfool01]

12 minutes ago, Homer said:

... and Stewart’s a goner...

was he part of the hurt and heal thread ? 

[mcshed]

5 hours ago, UEF said:

The personal allowance has gone up too - from about 6k (Labour) to 12.5k (current)

I never see much comment about how Labour thought it was sensible to tax people on £6k pa on here...

There's a lot to be said for universal taxation, if everyone sees that they are contributing they have a greater stake in what's going on and it stops the well off saying that the poor don't pay their way and should have less say in the running of things. Obviously someone earning 6k is paying a huge amount %-wise of tax in VAT but when income is seen as the main tax when discussing contribution to society.

There are similar advantages for universal benefits if everyone is getting benefit payments there is less stigma attached to getting them. Obviously both of these policies lead to people both giving and taking money from the government which Cameron successfully attacked as inefficient, but the extra bureaucracy can lead to us all being more invested in society.

[waltere]

10 minutes ago, bombfrog said:

He was the least shitty shit in a bunch of shits. Doesn't matter though, king of the shits was always going to win it.

QFT

[Tranquility of Solitude]

He was never big enough to headline or even sub anyway.

[barkley87]

I keep reading the title of this thread as 'rod stewart at Glastonbury'. I'd prefer that over a terrible eddie redmayne lookalike. 

[CaledonianGonzo]

But it is about a Rod Stewart at Glastonbury.

[SouthbanKen]

2 hours ago, frostypaw said:

That's the trouble isn't it - nobody with a conscience on those topics could wear it. Even when they say the right things they still vote the other way and damn themselves. Our one's terrible for it - can sound quite lovely then just votes with the party.

Exactly, just like no-one with a conscience on Brexit or Anti semitism could wear a red rosette. Sadly many do, and still believe they are on the right side of history. Anyone who supports or promotes either of the main parties at the moment needs to give their head a wobble IMO. #aplagueonboththeirhouses

[timbrass]

2 hours ago, Apone said:

Define Islamophobic? would that be pro female emancipation, pro gay rights, pro animal rights, pro religious freedom, against the death penalty?

I have never quite understood why Islamaphobia has come to mean irrational hatred of Muslims.  Phobia is Greek for fear so it should mean fear of the Religion of Islam.  Fearing a religion seems a perfectly justifiable position to take.  Arachnophobia is a fear of spiders (quite rational) but not hatred of spiders (rather irrational)

[SouthbanKen]

30 minutes ago, jfaragher said:

You're right, but on the other hand I strongly believe that if you can't run a business that pays your employees properly, then you need to rethink your business model.

 

The thing that gets me with this statement (and I agree with it) is that often the same people saying it (not aimed at you btw) are the same people who aren’t conscious about where they spend their money and always want more for less. 

If you support business paying people properly in rhetoric, then make the bloody effort to go out and find out which ones walk the walk and only spend your money with them. Otherwise it’s just empty noise. 

[bombfrog]

54 minutes ago, jfaragher said:

You're right, but on the other hand I strongly believe that if you can't run a business that pays your employees properly, then you need to rethink your business model.

 

I agree with this. Trouble is, we all have a different idea of what "paying people properly" means. If the minimum wage was £10 and there was a business that could create a job that paid £9 an hour and somebody without a job that wanted the opportunity to earn £9 should society deny both of them that mutually beneficial opportunity?

It's a complicated subject and I think we've got it right setting a minimum wage that stops opportunitistic employers from employing "slave labour", but in my opinion it needs to be a realistic minimum for all parties concerned. If it's set too high then companies just stop creating jobs or go under.

[jfaragher]

All good points - I suppose it all relates to my main point, that these conversations don't really happen - all politics at this time is focused on 'the market' and 'maximising return' - some people on the left might be inclined to reach out more if we had more discussions like this in the mainstream political arenas...