Rory Stewart at Glastonbury

[jfaragher]

9 minutes ago, UEF said:

Left wing people in "refusal to reach across the divide" shocker

 

What's to reach for?  There's plenty I'm not interested in working out a compromise on. I don't want to privatise half the NHS, I don't want to cut taxes for only half of higher earners, I don't want to only partly withdraw from Europe, I don't want a PM who's only a little bit racist.

This is the problem - the right continues to drive forward policies that will destroy our social covenants, make society less equal, and increase discrimination, whilst whining that the left won't discuss with them the best way to do these things.

I'll reach out for discussions when nationalisation, significant increases to minimum wage and security of employment, massive social housing programmes, staying in Europe, removing university fees, wealth taxation etc are back in the mix.

[Quark]

I loved him in Spiderman

 

[fred quimby]

3 hours ago, Apone said:

I absolutely guarantee this will happen if he makes it to final two

"E's, hash, Opium"

[UEF]

15 minutes ago, jfaragher said:

What's to reach for?  There's plenty I'm not interested in working out a compromise on. I don't want to privatise half the NHS, I don't want to cut taxes for only half of higher earners, I don't want to only partly withdraw from Europe, I don't want a PM who's only a little bit racist.

This is the problem - the right continues to drive forward policies that will destroy our social covenants, make society less equal, and increase discrimination, whilst whining that the left won't discuss with them the best way to do these things.

I'll reach out for discussions when nationalisation, significant increases to minimum wage and security of employment, massive social housing programmes, staying in Europe, removing university fees, wealth taxation etc are back in the mix.

You missed the overall raising of the minimum wage past £9/hr then? Can you remember what it was under Labour, or when they wanted to cap it at £8?

[deadpheasant]

With such hits as Moggy May, Failing and Da Ya Think I'm Brexi

[eFestivals]

1 minute ago, UEF said:

You missed the overall raising of the minimum wage past £9/hr then? Can you remember what it was under Labour, or when they wanted to cap it at £8?

chucking in £8 is meaningless without the year and context of the time.

But yeah, this is something that tories have done well on - raising the minimum wage. Unfortunately its effect has been skewed because it's not been achieved by simultaneously reducing top-level pay, meaning those better wages for the poorest paid have mostly been skimmed off the wages of the mid-paid.

Also, tax credits have been cut while the NMW has increased, meaning it's not been the gain in income that it otherwise would be.

[UEF]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

chucking in £8 is meaningless without the year and context of the time.

But yeah, this is something that tories have done well on - raising the minimum wage. Unfortunately its effect has been skewed because it's not been achieved by simultaneously reducing top-level pay, meaning those better wages for the poorest paid have mostly been skimmed off the wages of the mid-paid.

Also, tax credits have been cut while the NMW has increased, meaning it's not been the gain in income that it otherwise would be.

The personal allowance has gone up too - from about 6k (Labour) to 12.5k (current)

I never see much comment about how Labour thought it was sensible to tax people on £6k pa on here...

[clarkete]

47 minutes ago, UEF said:

Left wing people in "refusal to reach across the divide" shocker

 

As opposed to all the examples of the opposite?

[jfaragher]

Just now, UEF said:

You missed the overall raising of the minimum wage past £9/hr then? Can you remember what it was under Labour, or when they wanted to cap it at £8?

Yeah, that one specific thing totally blows my whole point out of the water...

Also current minimum wage is £3.90 to £8.21.  I believe that anyone who works (no matter what age) should be able to afford to have a reasonable standard of living.  So let's start at £12 per hour, for all ages, with higher minimums for those who have contracts that don't guarantee them regular hours (to make up for the uncertainty).  

Feel free to reach out.

[Cozza84]

Just a point about the festival's history - Glastonbury now caters to a much wider variety of people and political viewpoints than it did in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I (and I imagine many others) while respectful of the festival's history and differing political views don't really enjoy having it rammed down our throats every waking moment (see the 2017 love-in for the magic grandpa)

[jfaragher]

4 minutes ago, UEF said:

The personal allowance has gone up too - from about 6k (Labour) to 12.5k (current)

I never see much comment about how Labour thought it was sensible to tax people on £6k pa on here...

But this is all just minor tweaks of the current system.

I want mass re-nationalisation of critical infrastructure, us to join the Euro, to cap executive pay as a multiplier of the minimum wage, introduce flat rate wealth taxes and punitive taxes for unused land / property, increase inheritance tax, reintroduce the university grant system, sack off the royal family and close Eton.

Why won't you reach out to me???

[CaledonianGonzo]

6 minutes ago, Cozza84 said:

Just a point about the festival's history - Glastonbury now caters to a much wider variety of people and political viewpoints than it did in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I (and I imagine many others) while respectful of the festival's history and differing political views don't really enjoy having it rammed down our throats every waking moment (see the 2017 love-in for the magic grandpa)

Then tough fucking tits

[Winslow Leach]

7 minutes ago, Cozza84 said:

Just a point about the festival's history - Glastonbury now caters to a much wider variety of people and political viewpoints than it did in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I (and I imagine many others) while respectful of the festival's history and differing political views don't really enjoy having it rammed down our throats every waking moment (see the 2017 love-in for the magic grandpa)

I must have missed Right Field and the Keith Joseph Tower.

[CaledonianGonzo]

Mark Francois's SAS Experience & Shooting Range

[eFestivals]

21 minutes ago, UEF said:

The personal allowance has gone up too - from about 6k (Labour) to 12.5k (current)

yup, tho personally I think that's a bad idea. I'd like to see the tax-free allowance removed entirely (tho with other changes so the lowest paid don't lose out).

 

21 minutes ago, UEF said:

I never see much comment about how Labour thought it was sensible to tax people on £6k pa on here...

If there's no exemption, there can be no fair excuse given for why tax can be avoided - and which can be used by the not-so-poor to avoid tax.

Also, I reckon we should all put some efforts from our work into the state (even if the state gives it back and more, for those on low money) in order to care about what the state does. A social contract sort-of requires it.

[clarkete]

5 minutes ago, eFestivals said:

Also, I reckon we should all put some efforts from our work into the state (even if the state gives it back and more, for those on low money) in order to care about what the state does. A social contract sort-of requires it.

No representation without taxation!  

[eFestivals]

Just now, clarkete said:

No representation without taxation!  

 - no. Just that we should always chuck some in for the common good from the work we do.

And it stops the rich falsely whingeing about how their share of tax is going up off the back of changes to the system to their benefit. 

[hfuhruhurr]

My gut feel is that the min wage is a disaster - it makes people into numbers. From an employer perspective it's lazy and dismissive, from an employee perspective it's demeaning. Far better to have union representation, albeit regulated, but have people valued for what they do, rather than just a number.

On taxation, I hate this, but simplification is in order - whatever system that's invented, it needs to be so utterly simple that it can't be avoided. Get rid of the millions of taxes in existence and come up with something effing simple - like a wealth tax. Just one tax. No duty on anything, no VAT, no NI, none of that balls, just one simple inescapable tax.

[clarkete]

1 minute ago, eFestivals said:

 - no. Just that we should always chuck some in for the common good from the work we do.

And it stops the rich falsely whingeing about how their share of tax is going up off the back of changes to the system to their benefit. 

Indeed, that consideration does get messier with all the various types of taxation that people pay - income, NI, council, VAT, etc.

Most folks did seem to like the association between NI and the NHS.

[clarkete]

9 minutes ago, hfuhruhurr said:

My gut feel is that the min wage is a disaster - it makes people into numbers. From an employer perspective it's lazy and dismissive, from an employee perspective it's demeaning. Far better to have union representation, albeit regulated, but have people valued for what they do, rather than just a number.

I'm afraid one of the fall outs from Thatcherism is that debate is dead.

I don't know about where you work, but I've been in a few places where it's the workers who are having negative conversations about unions.  That association between all those great accomplishments on behalf of working people in the UK and the majority of those working today simply doesn't exist.  They work in places without unions and they're seemingly not that fussed.

It's a disappointment to me, as I have worked in a place where they at least had a presence and saw it help folks who needed it (representation, sickpay, etc), which in turn did benefit the company too.

Edited June 19, 2019 by clarkete

[eFestivals]

Just now, clarkete said:

I don't know about where you work, but I've been in a few places where it's the workers who are having negative conversations about unions.

In the early eighties I worked in a closed-shop, and it was no different then. 

[frostypaw]

2 hours ago, dentalplan said:

Still a Tory, and that’s what people are suggesting should deprive him of a platform.

I think people would welcome a Tory with socially progressive views who supported minorities, didn't support warmongering and weapons sales and who wanted to invest in our country, our people and a healthier future for us and our planet.

Now find such a Tory.

They're not welcome because of their voting record and what they do, not because of what colour badge they wear - that's just the uniform that comes with the rest.

This whole "lefties are to blame for not reaching out to us they should give us more of a platform" is just amazing too - we are saturated with the right's position from every direction constantly, that's why the rarity of something focused on the left's view is remarkable in the first place. It's a little #straightpride 

[WStoner]

2 hours ago, Keithy said:

Oh aye, not defending him. No idea why he's been invited to Glastonbury, just presuming it's going to be a narrow discussion about environmental issues and potentially the Heathrow third runway. Can't think of any other reason.

True!  Do people heckle these types of debates at Glasto?  I've never been to one so don't know but I can't imagine many people would be happy with his appearance there!

[bombfrog]

1 hour ago, jfaragher said:

So let's start at £12 per hour, for all ages.

Why not £15? Why not £20? Why not £50 an hour?

 

 

[dentalplan]

16 minutes ago, frostypaw said:

I think people would welcome a Tory with socially progressive views who supported minorities, didn't support warmongering and weapons sales and who wanted to invest in our country, our people and a healthier future for us and our planet.

Now find such a Tory.

They're not welcome because of their voting record and what they do, not because of what colour badge they wear - that's just the uniform that comes with the rest.

This whole "lefties are to blame for not reaching out to us they should give us more of a platform" is just amazing too - we are saturated with the right's position from every direction constantly, that's why the rarity of something focused on the left's view is remarkable in the first place. It's a little #straightpride 

I don’t know about Tories being welcome in any case. Even a hypothetical lefty Tory would still be dismissed as complicit and bad because of the colour of their badge.

Tbh I don’t really care if they get put on stage at Glasto or not. They’re not gonna get put anywhere that they’ll win people over - seems completely pointless, if relatively harmless.

Rory at Glastonbury would be incomprehensible and embarrassing though. Giving a stage to a guy hoping to appeal to Conservative party members is a ridiculous suggestion to begin with.